Napping with an Open Mouth - Help Needed with my Awful Riding!

[Flipo's Mum]

So flipo and I are tentatively preparing for our first ridden show in a month and decided to take a jaunt up to the show field so that we could get used to the open space. I stuck to a corner as the tractor was at the other end (wasn't bothering flipo but he was alert to everything!)
I started with a couple of circles at walk -

and we're trying out a Waterford loose ring at the moment - his head has come up somewhat as he's no longer leaning on me (not that it made me ache before, just he's now carrying his own head and not as on the forehand). His response to my asking him to halt is much better these days - I hardly have to squeeze my reins and he stops, I'm being so careful with this bit and that's going quite well after some schooling. I just wish I could stop my saddle polishing-collapse at the waist movement when I'm riding at walk. Think I might go for a simulator lesson when I find the money.

Anyway, the trouble is my trot. I need reminding of what I should be doing to combat the napping towards the gate. I'm just clamping up and not reacting correctly with my aids. He's done this before and I can combat it, I was just too unsure of doing it in such a big field with an open gate and a different bit.



Today we're going back with closed gate and my old bit. I need to mentally prepare the aids for preventing this happening - oh and I know I committed the cardinal sin of making him turn the other way once he'd trotted off with me.....we did this twice more and I did turn him the right way but again it wasn't pretty and it was open mouthed. Any suggestions about this would be greatly appreciated.
Also back, saddle and teeth all checked in last two months.

[Flipo's Mum]

Ruddy photobucket.....away to swap to my laptop
ETA sorted.

[carthorse]

Have you ever thought of going to a Pilates class to try & locate & strengthen your core muscles? That would really help with the collapsing at the waist, big horses can mean you need strong core muscles if you aren't to look like a rag doll.

On the plus side he's nice & forward for a big lad - well done, it's nice to see! If it was me I'd have my reins shorter & hands more forward, that way if I need to I can just bring my hands back to instantly give a stronger aid if he tries to nap (yes I know that the rein aid shouldn't be backwards but sometimes needs must). I'd also try to have my hips slightly more open & forward so I felt more secure, but that's me. The opening of his mouth wouldn't unduly concern me in that I think it's an evasion rather than discomfort. Can you get a full cheek version of the same bit? That way you still have some steering even if they do open their mouth.

If you know that he's going to nap to the gate then you can prepare, & I'm afraid a lot of it is back to getting the outside shoulder under control. Way before the problem area you want him secure on the outside rein, don't ask for loads of inside bend as that will just make it easier for him to fall out through the outside shoulder. Good outside contact, plenty of inside leg to keep him there & think of pushing him round with outside leg & rein rather than pulling him round the inside aids - sounds simple but isn't! If it goes wrong then my attitude with Jim is "you're going round here whatever it takes & however ugly it is" then make a better job of setting it up next time, but you know Flipo & if you think circling away in the other direction is best then do that (in which case I'd make it a small circle & bring him straight back on the track you were taking, that way you'll hopefully have him more off the outside shoulder & into the outside rein as you'll just have changed rein).

He's looking well at the moment, I don't think I've ever seen him looking so good

[domane]

When I first started riding Jack last year, I did so without a noseband. Had a few lessons and RI asked why I didn't use a noseband because Jack was tucking his head into his chest and opening his mouth as an evasion rather than stopping or standing still....



She suggested a plain cavesson done up snugly, rather than going down the flash route and felt that would be enough to prevent Jack opening his mouth too widely and would only come into effect when he DID open his mouth, so that's what I do now and he definitely reacts more quickly to direction and slowing/stopping.

We've used a full-cheek (lozenge-joint snaffle) on Jack from the outset as he will set his neck against you if he doesn't want to flex and bend and has no qualms about ending up with a snaffle ring in his mouth, to have his own way. Initially I could see him seething about the fact that he had cheek bars but again, he's settled and is actually more amenable for them. He's very green and doesn't understand leg and seat aids very well.... although he IS learning. Flexing in a circle is a work-in-progress and we still have moments when he sets his neck and it is like trying to coerce an ironing board!

He doesn't need a strong bit for stopping - he's far too lazy to bomb off but he does occasionally take exception to the direction I'm asking for and will want to nap to someone standing or sitting in the school....

[clashnoir]

Now Missus, stop being so hard on yourself.
He is going very well regardless of a nap. Even school horses often nap at the entrance.
Just keep at it and don't be so critical.
I can barely ride in a circle at walk never mind trot so have no constructive crit I'm afraid.

[Flipo's Mum]

Thankyou guys. I think I'm just out of practice after the winter, and was a little apprehenisve about being as bold with my aids as I should have been to stop him from veering off towards the gate - I think we'll move away from the gate this afternoon and that should give me the confidence to try to stop the napping before it happens. So strong outside leg Right!!
You've given me food for thought CH, I've been closing my eyes and trying to just relax with the movement, but I just felt I couldn't still myself at all - I've been doing lots of running and building my leg muscles up with squats, lunges, etc, but not done anything with my stomach so I will start building that in as well. Never considered it could be my core muscles.
And thankyou for the lovely comment about how he's looking. He's at his lowest ever weight - 680kg. He's got no muscle so we're working on that, but I'm doing ok at keeping the weight off so far - this is our dangerzone!!
Thanks Domane, I have been fretting as some have suggested I'm going to have to change his noseband, I'll try tightening this a bit - its very loose right now. TBH he came in a full cheek snaffle and we only changed as felt we had no brakes if he spooked and ran. Also, we had an incident when the full cheek ended up in his mouth (god knows how) and I just worry about that moment when he does something like scratch his head and end up panicking and shredding his face - he has those moments. But I'm gonna look at fulmer loops and I never leave him tacked up - the bridle is the last thing to go on and I make him move as soon as its on and its the first thing to come back off. This waterford bit was on loan from a bit bank so will see what else they have and maybe try a full cheek version.
Thanks CN - you know me, I'm a determined fool - I'm striving for perfection don't ya know!! Might never get there, but I'm gonna beat myself up on the way towards it lol!

[Vicki100]

Why are you so hard on yourself MISSY!

You both look fabulous! and how still is your lower leg...very jealous here with my stooopid swinging lower legs lmao!

As for the nap...well its just him being a gob sh*t IMO. Finns the same, mouth opens, cheeky eye appears and bannana shape by the napping point. I just growl, sharp kick and send him on. The more nervous i feel the more he does it ive found, he knows when he can take the pee!

Next time you'll be ready for it and most likely he'll give up after he learns it doesnt get him out of work.

But yeah seriously looking goooooooooooooooooooooood!

[tbaynancy]

Flip

I think you both look great! You've inspired me to get a video of me riding and if I get brave enough, I'll put it on here.

Agree with the comments about Pilates for the core - I'm not doing it as much as I should, but I think it's helped me.

[Mary Poppins]

Flipo looks fantastic. Really nicely forward and he looks relaxed as well.

I don't really feel qualified to give advice on riding outside the school as I am the worlds most nervous nelly, but from what I gather the nap resulted in him walking and the pressure being taken off. I would have been inclined to keep the trot going past the gate and then turn him back round to where you want to be. This would only work if you are confident that he wouldn't actually go through it though.

[Flipo's Mum]

Thanks for the encouragement guys!
I'm feeling particularly proud of him tonight. We went back to the same huuuge field this afternoon and he was equally keen, ears pricked, forward going, but still listening. I need to get used to this version of flipo, its a bit unsettling when he's calm but alert! I had to take a few moments every now and then when we just stood - Flipo looking about, but relaxed. I don't like standing too long, but I'm going to have to get used to it for the show.

I usually prefer dozey, slow and uninterested...much safer, so this version of Flipo is strange but I'm getting more comfortable with it! I ran to the tack shop and got some rubber bit guards to stop the rings going through flip's mouth if he did nap and this time we went right round the show ground, then stopped where our ring will be, put out two tiny cones and used this to circle round in walk and trot. This was at the opposite side of the field away from the gate so he napped a tiny bit, but not unmanageable, and it allowed me to test out my legs, get my brain and body co-ordinated again after the winter off. I knew I could do it, I just needed a wee reminder from you guys!
Then we went back to beside the gate (this time firmly closed!) and did some more circling and I managed it. Its just so foreign to be putting leg on when you're not wanting him to rush towards the gate. But timing it right by anticipating it and he was a wee dream. Love my wee man. We even had a tiny canter. That was laughable!!
Not sure what the verdict is bitwise, but today it was fantastic, he was uber keen to get out the gate and onto the road but I only had to half halt any time he considered moving and he stood rock solid. Rather than trying to bulldose through my aids - even on the way home. I don't like the idea of the bit pulling through his mouth but now wondering if I can find a waterford D ring rather than the full cheek. I can see this costing me a pretty penny!!

[carthorse]

Well done you

[Jane&Ziggy]

He is looking great FM, so shiny and forward going! And you look good too.

Isn't it nice when your horse starts going right???

[domane]

Brilliant progress! I can feel you beaming with pride through the words!

Love your boots, by the way.... which brand are then?

[Jane&Ziggy]

Oh FM PS, I just watched your walk video. First, I love how calm, engaged and attentive Flipo looks. Fantastic. Second, I see what you mean about your wiggling/saddle polishing.

I used to be an arch exponent of this, stemming from riding a sluggish HiPo. My RI stopped me doing it very quickly as it is not helpful on a whizzy pony! If you want to try this for yourself now that Flip is so beautifully forward for a big boy, I suggest two thngs to try:

1. imagine your seat bones are the points of a two pin plug, and that they are going to stick right through the saddle and plug in to the long muscles of Flip's back. Practise keeping your spine in neutral alignment and your hip bones "plugged in" at all times, so your bottom doesn't move around on the saddle.
2. See how still you can sit, how little you can move. Try making yourself sit entirely still! I think you will be good at this, because your legs are already beautifully still and you don't wiggle or nag with them.

These are Mary Wanless-based ideas, I am sure some of the Classical/EE peeps will give you their suggestions also.

Flipo

[Wiz201]

I'd try a full cheek version of the waterford as he certainly looks happy in it and forward going. You might need a few lessons on a simulator to strengthen your core muscles? They helped me when I started in group lessons and the horse would get nappy towards the back of a ride. Try using more of your left leg behind the girth to keep him going right on the circle, shorten your reins and pull upwards on your inside rein so you can see his right eye. That's a tip for steering I got off my simulator instructor. Oh, and you could try a tap on the outside shoulder with the whip if he does try to nap towards the gate.

[fth]

I have a game I play with game playing ponios like this --

I make a point of riding past the gate a hundred times - and owever much they want to nap (wihtout actually stopping nad turning around) -- they can -- I just keep going forwards -- over time the napping gets less and less -- and then when they go stright past it without napping -- lots of praise, a rest -- some kind of reward

I make a 7 day programme of doing this at the start of the riding year -- and it gets a bit less eveyr day and is usually sorted by the last day and then isn't an issue any more-- takes perseverance though! and you have to stay calm

Cathy

edited to add - by the way your riding looks pretty good! as soon as you relax a bit more it will be more enjoyable!

[crinklesb]

Flip looks fab and looks like he is going brilliantly!!!

My only comment would be to think about your position. If it were me I would lengthen your stirrups a couple of holes and sit more on your erm 'lady bits' in trot you are slightly behind the movement and when you are sitting you a are landing a little far back in the saddle. This will help even more with his forwardness and keep you straighter and taller in the saddle. As for core muscles it's sitting trot I'm afraid its the only way I've ever been able to truly im

[crinklesb]

Oops ! Damn iPhone!

Yeah so sitting trot lots and lots!!

For the napping, agree with everyone else, a sharp kick when he does it and a growl so he knows it's bad. Also, I'd move your schooling whip to your outside hand to back it up. If he ignores you and carries on napping you have a back up.

Can't wait to find out how you do at your show

[Joyscarer]

Why is it, the more I see of Flip the more I love him?

You're clearly doing a fantastic job with him. Well done, I hope you're feeling very proud of yourself.

[clashnoir]

Also nowt wrong with your riding.
You didnt see my attempt this morning.
Straight lines were not happening and as for circles........