"Dangerous" - so what would Parelli offier????????

[Kerry's Partner]

"Dangerous ------- "in the wrong hands".

....................emmmmmm....................YES, that's how I heard my Kerry being described yesterday.

Must not tell a tale out of context however.

This was a phrase - just one phrase out of a real life story I'm repeating. It was all about me telling two on the yard about how Kerry was when I led her up to have some grass (3rd week of her fourth week of box rest due to a newly developed "splint"!!) .

The 1st person (let's call him) is looking to buy his first horse. The second person is someone who is looking to succeed (at a high level) in the equine world.

First person regards me as someone who "bought" the wrong horse (and of course he wouldn't make that kind of mistake) ................. but he's also someone who "see's" Kerry as the sweetest natured pony around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Second person is someone who really knows my horse - albeit not quite as well as I do (dare I say this!!).

Me, well I guess I'm the last in line.........................This IS Kerry's fourth week of "box rest". It is also (for those who've ever read my posts re horse health) getting near to the "end" of my Kerry's real difficulty at the end of the breeding season (northern hemisphere mares!!!).............and YES she would have liked to have towed me (Mike Peace if you read this) to the ends of the earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but she didn't of course (gd I don't know how ever I didn't end up in Heaven btw - except to say that she is a real real gem at heart and would NEVER hurt me deliberately.

I expect I've confused everyone enough to declare my ramblings as rubbish. BUT, in my own defence, in each year I've owned Kerry I have posted things about how "inconsistent" mares seem to be (but it's actually a seasonal need for support imo) and I've received lots of anecdotal advice but (I'm sorry to say but I'm being brave enough to say not very much wisdom about this kind of thing).

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----------------over to you all.





i

[Sue Carnell]

Most horses are dangerous in the wrong hands. A poodle is dangerous in the wrong hands.. and as for hamsters. Well... Kerry is no more dangerous than your average hamster, just a bit bigger that's all.

The first three levels of Parelli teaches people not horses, so it wouldn't make Kerry any easier for anyone else to manage and, as you know, I personally don't think Kerry is a problem. If she's getting a bit ragged after 3 weeks of box rest, that's perfectly understandable in my book.

How is Kerry now? Is she sound yet? One day, I reckon vet thoughts will change on box rest and horses won't be imprisoned in an attempt to heal them physically, at huge risk to their mental well-being (and the effects to their muscle tone, digestive system etc., etc.,). Currently box-rest seems to be the first option (sledgehammer to crack nuts?), when I think it should be an absolute last resort myself (broken bones perhaps), but that's an entirely different discussion.

Hope she feels better soon. Give her my love.

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Kerry's Partner]

SUE's reply imo IS natural horsemanship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kerry TOLD me she was better .......................... and SHE knows.

Problem is, of course, the ground is FAR FAR too hard to let her go out (so I'm told by the vet). AND, in my prof experience I would have to agree............................... and also, of course, in my experience of MY (yes MY) horse.

She's is going to have a "FIELD" day when she is turned out - she WILL go absolutely beserk for a while...............and the ground is FAR to hard to "allow" her to do this atm. I do believe that if I turned her out tomorrow she'd destroy all of the healing that has taken place.......................because the ground is too hard. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO in this respect I agree with the Vet.

BUT...............................my challenge is.............DOES it have to be like this for her?????????????????????

SHE knows she is "healed". I believe her.

Despite all of the advances (in evolutionjary terms) we have made as humans for ourselves................we do seem to be a bit inept at solving problems (which are REAL problems for non-humans such as equines), after all.

In other words, can all of you out there ponder about this so that we can come up with many many many alternatives to the current trend of box rest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE.

Sandra for Kerry and so very many others.

[Sue Carnell]

It depends I reckon Sandra. A horse who is out 24/7 with no change in companions where everything is consistent, will very rarely (if ever, unless they're babies) go loopy and gallop about. So, if initially the advice is to keep them quietly turned out (where that is an option), I think it would be better personally. Ime, horses on box rest are at risk of damage when they're first turned out after the box rest (sedatives are a good idea in this instance), or when they're hand-walked (when they also put their handlers at risk, of course), so I think box-rest really should be an absolute last resort.

How did Kerry get this splint? Is it likely to be concussive, injury or strain? Would it be an idea to take her in the school first perhaps? I would definitely talk to your vet about mild sedation the first time she's out and try to ensure she's hungry too, so you've got a chance she'll hang loose and graze, rather than bomb around. Good luck.

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Kerry's Partner]

Thank you Sue.

I think the Vet like most others (except you) will think I've become even more "batty". I think it's a brill idea to ask for some partial sedation prior to her "first" turnout - as long, of course, as all of her own survival reactions will be unaffected so she'll be safe.

You know (Geordie expression).............................I have been "watering" both the back and front gardens attached to my "new" home. It takes up quite a bit of time (and water) to do this. BUT if the turnout fields were so watered then the gournd would not be too hard for either - would it???????????????? I would do it myself and pay for the water actually - she deserves this care....................then she wouldn't need any sedation at all!

Sandra
her

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[FRED]

Im not much use because this 'stuff'is all new to me.
But looking around the web at various 'sights' ..
Parelli and MP sure are given a bashing and not from horse!,
I would guess they find horses far more easier than people, and I would not be supprised if you have found the same I think your own instinct is possible the best way to go.
Have you ever heared a horse crashing their hooves on the floor while on box rest in stable,heaven knows what its doing to 'healing legs' it realy makes me wonder too, but as I say its all new 'stuff' to me.
Anyway, best of luck
While I have read/ heared people say horses don't race around after getting back freedom from box rest, ive wittnessed different too, and seen setbacks.
Ive seen a small area fenced off in their paddocks to stop em racing around like mad fools, bless you can't blame em
Well good luck

ps, i recon your are so right about S C NH at its best, so complicated not.

[Mossy]

Do you "rest" the limb, whilst the head goes mad and they box walk, so what rest does the limb get or. do you do what I was lucky enough to be able to do, rig up a field shelter as a stable. It had slidey bars across the front , and fence off a bit of paddock about 20ft by 10 so she could wander and graze by day but not very much! She was in at night. Radio for company etc.

[larri]

It's crazy isn't it - when my 12 month old Rottie pup broke a bone in her paw the vet said no exercise for 6 weeks - none, so we had a dog that went from 3 walks a day ( about 3 hours inc riding out with the horses) to being room bound.
Well it took her no time at all to start going mental, she was getting her splint off despite have chew stop spray, a muzzle and a buster collar and after two weeks she was racing around the room leaping off the furniture.....funnily enough the vet gave in after that

Sandra can Kerry be turned out in a menage at all to at least give her some freedom albeit in 20 x 40 on a soft surface?

Larri

[Kerry's Partner]

Just to reassure you in some ways..................surprisingly she hasn't been "batty" in her stable at all (Sue will know my meaning of "batty" (Kerry-type in the stable) - and this HAS been a surprise to me. She has, of course, nevertheless over the last few weeks "talked" to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She initially asked questions about "Why??????????????? Why am I here when they're all going out Mum??????????????"

So forgive me if I sound VERY daft but I explained to her why!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WELL she did understand.

We had lots of other "conversations" about well where's the grass then?????????????????? This was really lovely actually and it made me cry (that's not hard to do). She did this by nickering so beautifully if she thought I was leaving....................then she watched as I went to "pick" her grass and then said thank you when I brought it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! btw another one caught on to this to so I picked for "two"!!!!!!!! Of course she knew she was poorly then (I swear she did).

My thread was really about the day when she "knew" she wasn't poorly any more...............and she was still fine when in her stable............just very very stallion like when being taken for her short walk to graze AND very cross when being asked to walk back after her ten minutes (which she has had from the yard team at least once per day and extras from me too whenever possible).

I have to thank the yard team so much because they have been SOOOOOOOOOOO caring of her. She's had loads of extra attention from them. Also, of course, I've changed and changed and changed my own routine with her to keep her mind occupied and I'm sure she "knows" and "appreciates" why.

I could have turned her out in the school but would not because if I had I think she would have disturbed the healing which was taking place - that's my view because I'm sure she would "let rip".

BRILLIANT NEWS!!!!!!!!! It has started to rain.........so, hopefully, the ground will soften up a bit and the timing is about right (well Kerry's own opinion is that it is now definitely OK). The vet will check her out again too.

[Kerry's Partner]

Sue,

I'm fine about everything else EXCEPT ................... just HOW do I bring this exceptionally intelligent mare into work again???????????????? I KNOW (well I think I do but I'm as always prepared to learn new stuff) what the books would say ....but, well.............I am dubious so that signals to me that I need to ask the question.

Can you come up here please?

Sandra

[Sue Carnell]

ROTFL. If you only knew... We almost called in bank holiday weekend (20ish miles away, nr Basingstoke), but I chickened out again. Bah. Still. Getting there. Wez will bring me up on his bike, or, after my 'enhancement' course tomorrow, I'll fly like an eagle and visit you both, rather than cluck like a chicken (born the chinese year of the rooster, so I have an excuse. Lol. Wez is a horse, of course ). I'll phone and sort out a visit ASAP, so long as it's not raining.... Sorry Kerry.

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[FRED]

Rain! this evening the horses loved the softer ground, they sure know how to tell us their feelings {nope I haven't developed a 'hot seat' }
Good luck kerry!

[Ipsa]

Box rest is an interesting concept and I think vet's advice differs from country to country. For instance where I live very few people have access to stables so box rest is not an option that most vets reccommend.
We just have to do restricted grazing in the paddock with electric tape and make small enclosures which are still substantially larger than a stable.
I guess what I'm wondering is do vets and others make treatment options depending on what facilities are available and in some cases are they always necessary.
Like if I did have stables would my vet say box rest and would it mean faster healing as our horses would fret if boxed.

[Kerry's Partner]

Sue and Wez (Wez being a "horse".....well he didn't look like a horse to me when I met him!!!!!!!): About time too.............and you haven't 'phoned yet btw so do you think you could do so as soon as you read this. (This, btw folks, is a pupil speaking to her trainer!!!!!!!!!)

Ipsa
Yes, I agree it's a concept that must seem strange from county to county - or in fact country to country.

However, in our situation I have to say I think it was "right" for Kerry....................you see she would just "extract" herself from any type of "field" situation she regarded as "inappropriate". SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I expect that if I'd left her out in a v.v. small enclosure she would have damaged herself further rather than (however much box rest seems to enrage us) have "healed".

Also, of course, I maintain that atm she is beginning to experience her own personal nightmare as her hormonal balance adjusts itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LindaAd]

I know what you mean about box rest, Sue - sometimes I am reluctant to call the vet as I know that's what he'll prescribe... Last time, he wrote in his notes: Temperamentally unsuitable for box rest.

But then with Barney's current cartilage injury, he had to put up with 6 weeks of it. Once I organised a companion for him, he was fine, very calm and philosophical, as long as the meals were regular and there was plenty of green stuff to munch. And 10-minute walks twice a day. After that, the vet surgeon at the hospital prescribed six months in a confined space, cos he wasn't to be allowed to gallop before the cartilage had healed properly, and that's getting very difficult, even with a companion, because he's eaten all the grass in his space, and the trees...

I would have thought that they're better and much calmer in their own field with their own companions..... but then it was in his field that Barney injured himself in the first place, so we don't know what they get up to. Even the calmest horses can have a little gallop, or a bucking fit sometimes, and I'd hate to think of all that expensive and expert surgery ruined.

By the way, I tried the electric tape option before the surgery, but B just went straight through it. He usually respects electric fences, but obviously found the confinement just as stressful as the box rest.

[Kerry's Partner]

Firstly to reassure everyone that Kerry is OK now. Well she was trotted up for the Vet and it's a bit 50:50 regarding lameness. All of this because of NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO rain - and I am angry, actually, that we cover up and uncover football fields etc (for the money this brings in) but as a species (human) don't seem to accord this benefit to other species.

Anyway - whilst she was fairly OK physically she was at the same time SOOOOOOOOOOOO angry (of course ONLY with me) because her life is a bit upside down atm and she resents this so much.


True to type (Kerry type) I'll explain this a bit more. Taking her out of her stable = OK. Massaging her (my style which is nothing like equine massage as it's taught) - she would want this for eternity. BUT stop the massage AND.........................she attacks me like I'm her worst equine enemy!!!!!!!!!!!!! I maintain, of course, she's telling me about everything she hates about her life atm and insisting I do something about it!!!!

Anyway, she was ridden by Sam at walk on a rubber surface at the weekend and she loved it. In fact once tacked up for the first time in weeks her whole demeanour changed - and this, of course, brought tears to my eyes. She was proud of herself (at walk) again and she showed me that thing called "hope" or "trust"whilst I was watching. She was a bit affronted at only "walking" but within a few seconds really she concentrated and walked on with pride and frothed at the mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nix]

That's great news that Kerry is happily being ridden again Sandra! You must be so pleased and proud of her.

Regarding box rest, a few years ago Harve was diagnosed with a badly strained tendon and put on three months box rest. We managed a few weeks but it was ridiculous ... REST was not the operative word. Even sedated, Harve was potentially dangerous to himself and others, the vet himself would not even enter the box with him. Harve was so unhappy he was cantering around his box (12ft x 12ft) and banging against the door with his chest ... so, against veterinary advice, he was turned out in a 14x14ft electric fenced-off area in one of the fields with all his friends ... the result he actually rested!

I have not put him on "box rest" for any reason since ... my current vet is excellent, she respects my opinion and knows that I understand how my horses react better than she does. She also understands that my horses are individuals and we plan any treatments accordingly.

I just hope my insurance company isn't reading this!

[Kerry's Partner]

Thank you Nix. Gosh what a horrible time you must have had (Harve too of course). I also agree that the insurance bit does complicate everything too.