sorting out behaviour what works?

hollie · #1 5th Jun 2005, 03:36 PM

i am very intrsested in silversand but has any one ever helped a horse with behaviour problmes using the silversand approach?

As my 16.2 TB mare has a lot of issues i have only owned her a year but in this year i have felt like giving up on her so many times.

she has anumber of behaviour problmes. The most difficult one is her kicking she has kicked a number of horses and so now it has got to the point were only one person wants to ride out with me and so my horse has to go behind which does not help her as she needs to gain confidence and go in front.

she also has another number of behaviour problmes which are improving but it's such a long story.
does any one know or can tell what things have helped their horse to get over behaviuor problmes.

I had one of kelly marks RA's come out to see us and she has improved but she still needs a lot of work can any one help or have ideas.?

Yann · #2 5th Jun 2005, 08:16 PM

Crystal Fire who comes on here is heavily involved with Silversand, so she'll be able to give you some pointers there.

You mention you had an RA out, have you been doing any kind of groundwork with your horse? Even the basic exercises, leading, backing up, coming forward, yielding etc, done often and well will tend to change a horse's outlook, along with consistent handling.

A system based approach like Silversand or Parelli is probably a good way to go with a difficult horse. I'm not sure how much any amount of groundwork with you is going to affect horse / horse interactions though, but I'll stand to be corrected on that

Just to add I've seen RA's working with a few horses with different issues, and also used some of the same methods myself and had some little successes.

Crystal Fire · #3 5th Jun 2005, 08:23 PM

Hi - I replied on the other post. (Have been finding a lot of your posts interesting Yann - we seem to have some similar ideas

)

Crystal Fire · #4 5th Jun 2005, 08:31 PM

Sorry - just realised we have two posts about the same horse, but slightly different questions.
Horse kicking and chasing person in the field. To me this might be thought to be a behaviour problem, but regardless of the cause then the person needs to get safe. Yes, I am sure a training system like Silversand, Parelli, etc etc would help. The owner might need some 1-1 support from a trainer though, if only to make sure they stayed safe through the process.
I would also like to know the reasons for thinking about changing from the RA, is their advice not working in some respects?
Behaviour problems, like lack of social skills with other horses. Some natural trainers will be able to help you with this because they should have a wide experience gained over years of working with horses. There are also people who specialise in equine behaviour who might be able to help, but I'd look for someone who is prepared to help you longer-term, rather than charge per visit and maybe bail out on you at some stage.
The problem with your horse kicking horses behind when you ride out - is that a behaviour problem or just that she doesn't like them riding too close? Does she reverse into them, or just kick when they get in range? Why can't people just ride a bit further back?
Each behaviour or training problem is different. The answer to the rest of your question Hollie will depend on what her other behaviour problems are.

hollie · #5 6th Jun 2005, 07:42 PM

crystal fire sorry i did post 2 messages i was not sure how to create a new psot and not sure what to wirte.

Well here goes a long story and bad spelling but please listen.

I brought savannah as a 6yr old that needed bringing on, when i went to see i fell in love and was a fool and brought her straight away big mistake i know!!!, so i get this lovley horse home that i think only needs schooling on and in a year or so i could be doing anything.

so i get my savannah home and in the 1st week she licks me ok thats ok she is just settleing in and maybe its to much for her to have me in her field yet as she does not know me.

Then i start riding her lots of napping and bucking i work through this, Winter comes and i stable her ig mistake a new side of savannah you can not go in the stable with her she hides in the corner and will not let me stroke her. I take her food in and try to stroke to clam her down she then turns her back end on me and trys to kick out, every feed time she does this. she has now improved but i want her to trust me and i want to feel safe around her .

God lots of little things have happened
I must admitt that i just thought that there were not horses like savannah and what are behaviour problem horses. she has opened my eyes and taught me to try and listen to her instead of just telling her waht to do.

so she has kicked a horse through the fence and many other while out riding when they get close or when ever savannah is in fireing range she will have a go and she never misses. So i ask her oldowner and i only found last month that when she was 2yr's old she was put in a field with another horse and was cornered and the horse kicked her sop savannah ran through the fence and got her back legs caught in the fence hence the scars on her back leg's.

So i decide to get an RA out to see savannah she says savannah is not a dangerous horse just very scared and mis trusting so i try the ground work excises and she seems to listen and enjoythis.

I had savannah's back checked as she was still bucking i found out her back was out of place and her stifle this was put back in and savannah gets a flint caught in her foot she then has 3 weeks box rest i thought this would help her and me to bond it did.

but there is still so much missing in our relationship.

i can now jst about poo pick but we still have days where she will chase me out of the field.
sorry going on and on what a sob story more like stuipid fool .

so i do love savannah even though i do not get much back at the moment but she has improved i would just love to be able to make her happy and enjoy her and have fun.

see what you think sorry its not all in order of events just things that i rember.
I found that the RA said i need not get her out again just try the ground work exercises but as i am not confident i like people to show me first and watch so i can know what signs i am missing and also the expense of it all. as savannah is having scarcoids removed at the moment costing a lot of money the riding and bonding has been droped my fault not hers. i would like some books and videos to watch first before i go spending out loads of mioney and how do i know if i will get results and help savannah at the same time.

sorry loads of questions for you, you will have to be my aggony aunt sorry !!!

Moomin · #6 6th Jun 2005, 07:57 PM

I'm by no means an expert so won't give you advice on how to solve your problems, but just to say my horse was restarted using Silversand methods and it was very good. I've seen the methods used for a number of different horses and it's a very good method.

Crystal Fire · #7 6th Jun 2005, 08:29 PM

Oh blimey where to start? Whereabouts are you and Savannah? If close to me I can come and chat. You can buy Silversand videos and DVDs to work with, I think they are very good value (the 3 DVD set is £40). They show working with an unhandled horse and an experienced horse, which I think is very handy. But I don't want to say go spend money and it doesn't suit you, that's not what it's about!
So - where are you?

hollie · #8 7th Jun 2005, 06:44 PM

well im in hampshire andover nr basingstoke. savannah has been getting beter with time but i just feel like i need expert advise all the time and its hard to find some one that is around and not to expensive and able to answer any silly questions i have.

i was grooming savannah today with my hands and she started to groom me back which she has done nefore but she tends to lose interest and walk away this time i walked away and she followed good step ? well i thought it was any way let me know please hollie

Crystal Fire · #9 7th Jun 2005, 08:38 PM

I reckon that was a pretty good step Hollie! Hampshire... hmm... Not that close to me but let me think about it a bit. I'll see who I know closest to you. I'm around the country a lot this year going to clinics as well, so will see how close I'm going to get to you on my travels

I think what I'm going to do is take a small sample DVD of some of the Silversand basic skills set. That way people could have a look to see if they think it would be good for them before they spend money. I can't bear it when people push you to buy things and you don't know much about the contents until after. All of the Silversand students can have free email advice from Steve and his associates once they have started to study the programme, so that might be an option for you.
Would the RA who came to help be a helpful presence on the phone sometimes? I know you have to pay for the visits, but presumably if they came once every month or two, and supported you on the phone or email in the meantime - that would help?
I think you're on the right lines, it can take a while with horses like this. The important thing is for you to take care and stay safe.

hollie · #10 8th Jun 2005, 07:24 PM

im going to go to one of steve's demos in fordingbridge and also my friend has the dvd's and she said i could borow them which is a grat help! today i managed to get all 4 travel boots on her as we had trouble with the back one and now she is all ready to go to the vets on friday.

how will i be able to tell if it siuts savannah as im not sure on parelli would suit asi have heard the pressure increases and i dont think she would like that i think she would try and fight that?

but any way i willl be needing more advice soon i can assure you but maybe i should go to the demo 1st then ask questions once ive got more of an idea

Crystal Fire · #11 8th Jun 2005, 08:39 PM

Ah rats Hollie! I'm going to the clinic in Lymington - starting Monday, the day after Fordingbridge clinic finishes! We'll miss each other ( I had a vague idea of trying to drop by you on the way down, but it would have been pushing it for time). Are you just going to the demo or the clinic as well?
Steve doesn't escalate pressure in the way that you would associate with 4 phases. He will be firm with a horse that is leaping about all over people for example, but it is different in a way that I personally feel very comfortable with. You need to see and decide for yourself. I'm assuming you can't afford to take Savannah to the clinic, because that would have been great. All we need is to win a lottery eh?

Get a chat with Steve and tell him that Karen sent you - he will understand

Speak to his wife Irena as well if you can, she is lovely. If you have problems finding a space where Steve is free, let Irena know that you need some to catch him for a chat.
All I can say is that if you do decide to try for yourself you will get plenty of support. It is by email and Steve takes a lot of trouble over this. There is no fee to pay or anything like that, it's free once you start using his programme. You only really need to be using the programme so that he can refer you to things on the DVD and in the notes. Really - no pressure to spend money. If you're not sure don't do it.
You should get to meet the two Silversand associates in that area, Amanda and Brenda. They both have their individual approaches, but Steve may suggest a particular person to help you. If you can't afford any tuition at least you could do a lot on your own with the DVDs maybe.
Does that give you some sort of direction? It's only a couple of weeks away now, but why not have a look at your friend's DVD's and see if you are comfortable making a start before the demo? Just stay safe.

Crystal Fire · #12 14th Jun 2005, 09:25 PM

Hi Hollie, hope you pick this up. Steve and Irena ay they will watch out for you at the weekend so you can have a chat - so make yourself known to them

hollie · #13 16th Jun 2005, 06:57 PM

hello not been on for a while i went to the vets last friday that messed up my day! well im going to the demo cant afford the clinic any way savannah can t be ridden for a while and with the kicking situation i dont think this is a good idea. ive watched half of the 1st video with the younger horse. very impressed! i emailed ummm i cant remember who one of the silversands team to ask for directions amanda?? and she gave me directions. do you know who will be there and do you think it is possible to speak to some one if not steve as im sure he is a very very busy man and wont have much time?? i did read your other post but ive forgoton who you said would be there. sorry

Crystal Fire · #14 16th Jun 2005, 07:03 PM

Hollie, look for Irena - the tiny blonde lady in a Silversand shirt - Steve's wife. She'll be expecting you I promise. If Steve is too busy she can direct you to someone or even help herself, but I'm sure you'll get to talk to Steve

Amanda who you spoke to is a Silversand associate instructor and does some lovely things with her horses.
Have fun and let me know what you think of it all. I'll tell you how the clinic goes that I'm watching if you like.
Hope it's not anything too serious with your girlie? Know how you feel as all of mine are lame at the moment. In theory I have two that I can ride, but in practise none

hollie · #15 16th Jun 2005, 07:07 PM

you replied very quick savannah has sarcoids! !

not very good she has to go back next thrusday! again i just got the 1st bill £170.00!! she has to go 3 times.
Anyway crystal are you a member of the silversand team ?? can you tell me about the demo you are going to ??

Crystal Fire · #16 16th Jun 2005, 09:19 PM

Oh blimey sarcoids! Touch wood I've had a couple with my grey mare, but been lucky in that they dropped off with homeopathic treatment. If they are bigger then you need the vet don't you? Don't worry Hollie, it will all come right eventually. (That's what I keep telling myself as I watch my ponies pottering around the field!).
Yes, I am a member of the Silversand team, I'm Karen and I think on the website they call me "events and demos organiser". A fancy title really, because I don't organise everything, but quite a lot of things!

I love the way we are learning with Steve and the rest of the gang, to the point where I've been to Silversand in Australia for the last 3 years to learn. I've watched a clinic with Philip Nye when out there - have you heard of him? Amazing horseman. Next year when he's back there I'm booked to ride his clinic.
Next week me and Laura who also posts here are off to the New Forest and camping to save money. We're going to see the first two days of Steve's clinic at Warborne. It's cheaper to spectate and I always learn loads. Will probably take the camcorder with me so I have something to help me remember.
I don't know much about the people who will be riding, but can give some edited highlights if anyone is interested. I did a post a couple of weeks ago about a seminar that Shuna Shaw did for us in Surrey, which was really good. Have a look at that if you're interested. They are all different depending on the riders and the instructor.
Anyway, having an early-ish night tonight, so if I don't talk to you before have a great time at the weekend and tell Steve and Irena I'll catch them on Monday

hollie · #17 17th Jun 2005, 05:12 PM

sounds very good your job hmmmm while im stuck in an office bored! well can you let me know how it goes and i will let you know my friend is coming to the 1 that lent me the video any way hope you have a good time and i will try and talk to some1 if im brave !!!