Thoughts on NH

I don't think this topic should be a can of worms because everyone replying is adult enough to read it, listen to what's being written, ask questions and respect that other people do other things differently.

All trainers no matter who they are can teach me something. There is not one trainer out there that I haven't learnt something from. Even if it's a snippet, if it made me think, even if it made me realise that actually I am not too bad a horseman!

Why would you need your horse to walk over black tarp. I don't have black , we have white and a bit of blue.
From my understanding it's trust building. You are asking a prey animal to step onto something that makes a noise under it, danger, and it can't see, danger. Some horses are scared of bags and black rubbish sacks, so it could be something they showed at the demo as an idea, it's not Gospel.
It also comes up in CT and in some handy pony classes, so it's not NH specific.

The curtains are to stimulate trees, bushes etc. So you are asking the horse to trust you and go forwards through something it can't see what's on the other side and have things touching it from above.
No I won't meet curtains out hacking, but we deal with fallen branches, narrow gaps on a regular basis. We haven't ever done the curtains but again in comes up in CT. So as I do that it probably would make sense to practice it
That said I have met things out hacking so bizarre that it wasn't on my list if things to show her. A mattresses was one.

NH is nothing to do with people not riding, that's their choice. If they don't want to, lack confidence, it doesn't matter who the trainer is, that's still the case. Some people do own horses that can't be ridden, so for them you could say this gives them direction and ideas?
Depending on whose methods you are referring to yes you are advised to only get on if the horse is safe, however you are also told how to work through things and you are expected to, so I don't get the excuses on not riding? If a horse moves away from the mounting block, the lady would have a lot of things she could have done to address that, then got on. However if she is in the nervous camp she wouldn't be able to resolve that and often they misread.

I know a horse at a bhs trainer who won't get on until the horse stops plunging round the school. Is she making excuses, no she has some common sense!

Letting the horse choose isn't just an NH thing. Its just part of some training. My RI expects me to have the focus else mine will choose. That's herd dynamics, a leader and a follower.
However you talk to people who ride on ranches and they talk about letting the horse choose it's way down the mountains. They choose the safest footing. In most cases I don't interfere when I ride down our track. (I do find myself saying mind the hole! She only slipped there once, she knows about the hole)

My thoughts on NH, been there, done that. It suited my last lad down to a tee. In fact he came alive. I had four amazing years having lots of fun.
This lass said you can stick it up your ##@@.
Someone mentioned it being a mindset and not about equipment. My mind is probably the same, but my equipment has had to change. I can't lunge with a 22ft rope do now have a lunge line.. It's about reading the horse in front of you and although I would say I didn't let her choose her training. It would be wrong to try and push a square peg through a round hole.

I also saw the same Kelly Marks demo. I loved that little black pony - I wish I could have rehomed him.

I do lots of horse agility with my horse, and it's all about building trust between the horse and the handler. If you can train your horse to walk over things that scare him (like the tarpaulin and the curtain) then he is more likely to walk over and past things that scare him when out hacking. It's also fun to do. I do liberty horse agility with Ben (when he isn't attached to a leadrope) and it is so rewarding to have him walk by my side and be directed by my body language. There are no whips and no force used in horse agility, it's all positive reinforcement and once your horse understands this, it makes him more trainable and generally easier to handle.

Yes I agree that some people do horse agility because they have confidence issues riding, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Why is there so much pressure to ride your horse? Horse agility gives an alternative and rewarding activity to do together. It teaches you to read each others body language and makes you more aware of how you influence the horse.

I also do not necessarily equate horse agility with the NH tag. I am not a 'NH practitioner', I don't even know what NH is supposed to mean. I do a wide variety of activities with my horse, but unless absolutely necessary I do not smack him or punish him with physical violence. I don't think that I need to because I have found that other ways are far more effective.

Lol well of course I only ride Storm if she is happy to be ridden. Dontcha know I ask her first.....sorry but it did make me laugh imagining someone who only rides their horse if the horse allows it...and is happy

I think it's a huge subject. I don't knock anyone for using a method or way that works - for them and theirs. So long as it's safe and kind. I'm always keen to read about how everyone on here deals with their horse on a daily basis and how they deal with spooking etc. But end of the day, I think we all deal with stuff as and when, and no amount of natural approach reading will work on the spur of the moment stuff that crops up.

As for the dangly butchers curtain thingy. Well, you never know...... I think the overall idea is to build a bond and build up an arsenal of things that your horse isn't afraid of. Guess it doesn't do any harm?

I'll reply with my thoughts on NH when I have more time, but please do tell what Pie got up to! He is such a character.

What was the little black pony like?

NH for me is a mindset. My relationship in pre NH days was very adversarial. "I say, you do". I had no interest in why a horse might be 'misbehaving' I just wanted him to stop it and I achieved that mainly with punishment - a growl, a slap, whatever.

That changed when I read Considering The Horse and the Monty Roberts book. It just made so much sense to me to recognise that the horse has a reason for doing what he's doing and to try and figure that out. And for all the people that tell me that it's all common sense, in my experience it is not common to 'consider the horse' in all interactions. Sure we consider the main issues like pain or fear, but it is the much more subtle understanding that I want.

Once you start looking for the horse's point of view, problems can sometimes just evaporate. One of my favourite examples was when I was teaching my previous youngster to stand for mounting. Every time I picked up the reins she backed up which I saw as an evasion. So I made her back further and faster to punish the incorrect response - sort of making the wrong thing harder than the right thing kind of idea. The more I backed her the more quickly she started backing as soon as I picked the reins up until she bit me on the bum! Now at that point I engaged my brain and started wondering what she was doing. I stood looking at her. She stood still looking back and it slowly dawned on me that my cue to back up from the ground was pressure on her mouth. When I picked up the reins she experienced pressure on her mouth. Was she just trying to comply? I went up to her and mounted without touching the reins and she stayed still. From my point of view, I deserved a bitten bum - She was doing what she thought I was asking her to do and I was getting increasingly adversarial until she felt the need to defend herself. A few years ago her biting me would have just resulted in a punishment and that opportunity for understanding would have been lost.

For me it has nothing to do with walking on tarp, circling on a long line, riding bitless or anything else technique or equipment driven. It also has nothing to do with 'giving in'. It is just about trying to understand what is actually happening rather than either making negative judgements and assumptions (he's being naughty, deliberately awkward) or just not even wondering about the why of horse behaviour.

Groundwork is interesting in as much as it's interesting if it is to you. I taught mine a lot on the ground first, but I don't do it just for the sake of it. It would bore her.
I can think of a 101 things I could be doing but it's not her thing.

She likes lunging which on the flip side is boring by comparison, but she likes it. She knows what I am doing and gets on with it.
I can think of 101 ways to lunge though
If it's not for you that's fine, it's not wrong not to do groundwork.

The let them touch it idea is good I agree for young, nervous horses. It has its place, but I do have a "but this could back fire on you".
It's not just IH that has this idea though, other methods include it, it came up at a different clinic I did.

Mine was allowed to investigate things as a baby. I don't feel that's NH that's just my choice of how I wanted her to be curious and confident.
I did let her look at my new filler though as she hadn't ever seen one before. I just felt it would be unkind to send her over it when she had only ever seen a few poles.
But when we had people flying kites next to the school she was informed that those "weren't her business and to look where you are going"

Going back to the tarp. When it came to leading her onto the weigh bridge at the vet she didn't notice. It was just like the tarp she had seen at home. I know many horses would just walk onto it, but it was something I might just have helped her with.

http://www.horsenation.com/2014/06/05/10-trail-obstacles-on-every-horsemans-wishlist/


I guess in a nutshell NH is meant to be a natural way of training. The horse though knows how to be a horse, we can only think we know. Depending on who you believe or who you feel drawn to, you are still listening to a human tell you what they think the horse thinks.

squidsin said:

if we're out jumping, I need her to trust me enough to go over the jumps, whatever they look like, without having to desensitise her to them first.

Click to expand...

But I think this is kind of the point the others were making - it doesn't matter exactly what the scary object is, black plastic, butcher's curtain etc, you are just trying to get to a place where your horse will trust you enough to cope with the scary thing, whatever it is, if you say it's ok. Plus the handler/rider is reading how the horse reacts to scary objects and learning how to show enough confidence to the horse to earn their trust. So you wouldn't need to desensitize Roxy to the actual jumps, she will jump them because you've trained her to put her trust in you. My local endurance group puts on 'spook busting' training days, which is basically a lot of scary objects in an arena, to get horses used to coping with surprises out hacking.

As far as NH goes, I can see how it appeals often to new and novice owners, because it gives you a template and an opportunity to work together and learn together with your horse. From my own observations, more experienced handlers don't need to 'practise' leading a horse over black plastic, because they already have the horse language skills to tell the horse to get on with it and for the horse to accept their leadership.

I am a complete numpty and don't really understand the nuances of NH or traditional horsemanship. I posted a while ago after observing a NH trainer teaching a horse to load in exactly the same way as my RI does. My RI wore hard hat and gloves and used a lunge line. NH trainer wore cowboy boots, no hat and used a long line, but other than that there was no difference. I love Mark Rashid books and admire his philosophy very much, but he says he isn't NH. Also, I find my horses haven't read his books and don't necessarily behave the way they're supposed to!

I don't think 'not riding a horse unless they are happy to be ridden' comes under the banner of NH does it? I don't know though, don't know enough about it.

I've watched Parelli videos of trainers jerking their horses about on the end of a long line for no apparent reason. I've seen clips of high level Arab showing where the handlers do basically the same thing, in order to make the horse jerk it's head up in surprise and fear, which apparently makes them look beautiful.

I find it all very confusing, and think I might just opt out of every type of horsemanship and just enjoy my horse the best I can.

It is not NH it is however about trust,have a look at his , agility section RS riders and ponies including a couple of just broken ones and other experienced ponies with novice handlers and watch the trust build

@Bodshi when I think of you I don't think of a numpty. I see you as rider who can go on fun rides and I believe endurance if I am remembering correctly? To me that requires a skill and it's a skill you have.

NH or whatever is just another path to reach the same destination.
To enjoy and have fun with your horse I would say you are already there

Thanks @newforest, you're a pal.

Hello. This is my first post on here, I was browsing posts and found this one and joined up to respond as I was the one riding the black pony mentioned

As others have said the NH label is a bit difficult to define...
As far as Intelligent Horsemanship goes, often people think it is just for a certain type of horse/rider (for instance, those who don't want to ride, those with nervous/young horses, those who don't have real competition goals, those with very difficult horses) but really it is for everyone, the core principle of IH is to find the methods that bring out the best in the horse...so it uses a range of techniques and is often has more in common with good old fashioned horsemanship than you might think.

Personally, the ideal for me is that I try to bring out good behaviour rather than bad, so often people think -- well that wouldn't work with my horse -- or 'that's just for the easy ones', but the challenge (and the fun of it!) is making EVERY horse look as easy as possible. The little black pony was just backed and there was one or two moments where I could easily have bought out a much trickier set of behaviours if I had got the timing of my leg aids wrong.

The spooky stuff is a good way of setting up a safe training scenario to work on more generalised techniques in dealing with worries - for horse and rider - but you are right, often lessons need to be repeated in different settings and with different stimulus to really become grounded.

As for evasive spookers - they would definitely come within the remit of what I think of as a normal type of client for me (when I was working full time - now I am not as busy with a PhD in horse/human interaction), so do feel free to get in touch with IH to see what could be done to vanquish those shies in the arena - it might be more in sync with your common sense than you think!

NH also stands for National Hunt.

I don't do labels because I think labels stick. People remember and can quote anything bad but forget the good stuff, or have any knowledge of good stuff. Or any understanding of.

To be honest now I just get on with it. I don't care much for who said it, thought it or wrote it. I am a lady with a cob. Nothing more nothing less. I come from a sympathetic try to look at the bigger picture place but so does my riding instructor who is an AI.