Barefoot Performance Horses

Yann

I should of course have included infection as something that can change things quite fast.

However with the flaring I have an observation/ question. The hoof horn material that has flared wasn't metabolically synthesised recently, well certainly little of it. Much of it was laid down a while ago and has been slowly coming down as the hoof wall grows from the top. Exactly how do you propose that recent metabolic changes have weakened it when this material really isn't metabolically very active? Just what changes in its structure do you think have suddenly been induced?

Either it was poorly lain down months ago due to nutriton then (and also thats perhaps where some of the genetic problems of thoroghbreds may be being expressed), but didn't buckle or degrade in the interim or it has weakened due to a prolonged period of environmental insult as it has grown down, finally showing itself as weakened horn when it is close to the bearing surface.

I do realise that it isn't strictly either or, these are complex multifactorial situations which will probably never have a unique cause and effect relationship established. However recent metabolic changes being the primary active in an essentially metabolically inactive tissue doesn't seem likely.

Additionally, whilst I have reservations about Keratex because it makes things brittle it does make hooves hard, and hard hooves rarely flare, except if there are multiple cracks and then lumps tend to chip off rather than the classic flare. The rational behind Keratex, ie cross linking of Horn, preventing some of the adverse effects of prolonged exposure to water is I think essentially correct. It's just that I think circa 5% formaldehyde solution (ie Keratex) isn't the best way of doing this.
 
I would go along with the contents of these articles as an explanation on this one, as I said before there appears to be a 100% correlation between the strength of grass growth and the state and capability of her feet.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/jessica.htm
http://www.hoofrehab.com/wallcracks.htm

I try and restrict spring grass now, but like I said I've seen the feet go from neat and upright to flared in a matter of weeks several years running, usually after a wet spell in late may / early june.
 
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I'm not an expert in the science but my experience is that nice, tight hoof growing down from the coronet band has a distinct tendency to go *splat* when the sping grass comes through. Last spring, Mrs P's feet grew at a rate of knots, her white line became stretched and she ended up with loads of flare. Whether that was just a side-effect of the mechanical leverage on her white line as the wall grew I don't know, but she didn't go long between trims (5 weeks) and I was keeping a decent roll on her feet in between so I don't think this was the only factor. This year I have easier access to roads so she ought to be better able to self-trim. It'll be interesting to see if the same thing happens.
 
It seems that we see a different correlation in the same situation.

In spring the grass grows primarily because its wet and warmer, grass doesn't grow well when its dry. Yann just made this very point "usually after a wet spell in late may / early june". Even if it doesn't rain spring grass is often soaking wet from dew first thing in the morning and often for much of the day. The hooves may dry briefly, only to get wet again as soon as it starts to get dark and transpiration from the grass stops evaporating and collects as droplets on the grass blades.

You obviously are convinced its the grass, I think it is the water, especially as its warmer than in winter and the bugs find it that much easier to grow faster in a warm wet environment. And in the extreme of these conditions, the tropics, you just can't keep a horse, its feet will soon rot off, grass or no grass.
 
I am convinced it's the grass, because in the case of my horse there's no white line stretch or other sign of infection. The same hooves go through a severe wet / dry cycle every day during the winter and I can spin the trimming interval on them out to six weeks or more with no problems whatsoever.

Not only that but the flaring and collapse of the hoof is accompanied by heat in the coronet band and more often than not episodes of raised digital pulses, and she becomes footy on stony ground. The same horse will happily march over the same stones without pause in the depths of winter when she's out for up to 18 hours a day in a boggy field. Not only that but the soles gain marked concavity during winter and end up bang flat again once the walls go. The fact I've been able to reduce the severity of the deterioration this year by muzzling seems to back up grass as the culprit rather than moisture per se.

I do find it surprising that conventional farriery wisdom won't accept something that appears crashingly obvious once you think about it. Every summer farriers face the same old battle with certain horses trying to keep shoes on because of rampant wall flares, and get mutterings about their workmanship during spells of rapid grass growth when it's not actually their fault. There are endless cases where people have overcome some of these problems just by changing the horses diet and restricting their access to grass.
 
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I think both wet and grass can affect the feet, depends on the horse. I've got one who has quite weak outer wall and her feet don't cope well with wet, they flare and crack much more easily than when dry but whether she's off grass competely or stuffing herself with plenty of nice grass doesn't seem to make a difference. Then I've got another that copes much better with the wet but has once been let onto way too much grass one day and within a week went up 2 sizes in Old Mac boots the feet flared so much, in her case the flare was all the way down so it wasn't even obvious how bad it was until the new tighter growth started coming down again.

The kind of wet the feet are exposed to makes a difference as well, IME boggy fields are much much worse than just normal mud and both are worse than just a bit of dew.
 
Just to be awkward - P has only ever been footy during dry spells in the spring :rolleyes: As soon as there is some juice in the ground she seems fine. Sorry! :eek:
 
Fascinating discussion. I think you're both right, Boffin & Yann :D

I think type of horse plays a part in how the hooves handle different problems. For eg arabs & QHs with diet & management issues usually tend to develop a more upright foot, with high, contracted heels. Often the walls are still relatively straight & strong, despite separation. TB & heavy horse types tend to grow their feet outwards, the walls flare and the sole drops flat. Often overlong, underrun heels are not recognised as such & owners of these horses are told they just 'won't grow enough heel'. I haven't decided whether one or the other type of foot is better, when a horse is managed properly & kept or made truely sound.

The more I learn, the more I think diet & avoiding carb overload/hind gut acidosis is of very critical importance. It seems that the major *initial* player in laminitis/seperation/founder is metabolic. Studies suggest that purely mechanical factors are *generally* unlikely to weaken laminar connections to such a degree. It takes chemical forces to break the connection. Even if hoofcare, lifestyle, environment, etc are perfect, metabolic probs can lead to separation, sensitivity & weak feet.

However, once a hoof is compromised by insufficient nutrition & metabolic disturbance, mechanical factors, including waterlogged feet, can easily contribute to hoof weakness & problems. It also seems that even when metabolic & nutritional problems have been eliminated, if the mechanics aren't correct, the feet find it difficult to recover. It's important to address the feet holistically & manage metabolic & mechanical soundness together.

Boffin, I question your conclusion about feet falling off tropical horses. For one, tropical pastures are quite different nutritionally. Secondly, how do you explain the many, many, many horses that do have great feet in this environment? I've had the chance to personally see both feral donkeys and barefoot(brumby) stock horses in the tropics, with feet like you see on mustangs of Jaime Jackson's examples. Granted, I met the above beasts in the dry season, but I think feet that 'fall off' in the wet wouldn't have a chance to look & perform nearly so strongly in the dry.

I'd be fascinated to study horses such as those in the Camargue, who live in permanently swampy areas. I know their feet look quite separated & overgrown, but I'd like to know what the innards look like, and also what their diet is like. I've also seen wild horses from dry sand country with feet that look much like you see of Camargue horses - hugely flared & overgrown toes, underrun heels...
 
I agree, but some of the other barefoot horses on the yard were getting footy when it had rained because this made the grass flush. We seemed to breathe a sigh of relief when this happened ands didn't have a problem any more! I did wonder whether the drying of her feet meant they reduced elasticity, and this combined with the hard & uneven surfaces we were riding on was enough to make her footy. It's happened two springs in a row so something's going on, I just wish I knew what!
 
wundahoss said:
So I'd take that info to mean her feet have been compromised & aren't sound, but when the ground is soft there is less concussion, resistance & leverage on her sore feet.
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I can vouch for the fact that for the other 50 weeks of the year these feet are truly rock crunching :)
 
hmmm....Now hold on all you hoof boffins, I don't want to be the party-pooper and take this ON Topic or nothin .... but personally, I don't have a problem with wear, or footiness as such, what I think I have a problem with is GRIP !

I put boots on because the terrain we go across on the plateau is incredibly different to our home terrain, and because if I am to whip, then I need to not worry about the sudden appearance of rock under foot.

However, I have reached a verdict on the easyboot epics, which is, they aren't up to the job. I always 'go equipped' with my bag of tools, and these darn boots are sized by my trimmer, they're clamped down well, and wired shut. She lost them both at high speed, shredded the gaiters from the rubber part of the boot. I did get the boots back and the main part is fine - and still wired shut.

So next step is to finally pin down my neighbour who has been promising me this truck load of inch and half, and crusher run, so we can at least start making headway there with the home footing, and at least that should take the boots out of the equation. I still think though, that I am running out of grip, when barefoot. This could be 'delicate old lady syndrome', of course. It might be a head issue more than a hoof issue.

Meanwhile - does anyone know the people recommended at UKNHP ? Yann ? Only I can't get a response from them, and he is out hunting barefoot on likely similar terrain, so I'd really like to talk to him !
 
I wouldn't / didn't attempt to go hunting in hoof boots, when you need absolute certainty over any kind of ground at any speed, especially heavy going then I don't think they're up to it. Not all of them have very good traction either, epics are pretty bad without modification and only so-so with it.

One of the reasons I put shoes back on Rio was so that we could go out hunting and not have to worry, unless your horse has rock crunching feet and is good on their pins with it then unfortunately shoes are the only real answer to this one.

I noticed you'd joined the UKNHCP board, don't know them as such but they're usually OK about replying to PMs and emails (Nic Barker is a woman by the way :) ).
 
OOOOPS ! Of course - Nic, not 'Nick' !!

The epics flew off going fast on very good, even hard going ! That really surprised me. I lost the (very expensive) marquis boots in heavy mud - just like you would expect.

tbh, this latest loss has me very much more keen to do without the boots.I didn't even notice them go, but one flew back and hit my lil buddy who was behind - that can't be a good situation. And then, how about her actually stepping out of these boots at high speed - that's an accident waiting to happen for Rosie.

What's really odd, is that we were on a mile-long run, out and back. The one boot fell off on the way out, and the other on the way back - they were lying within 6 ft of each other !
 
Boffin said:
Try taking a horse or a donkey to the tropics, their feet fall off in months.
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?????? references please.

I have lived in 'the tropics' in several places for lengthy periods of my adult life. Horses' feet do not 'fall off'. I don't know where on earth you got this strange idea. With a modicum of care, such as they would get outside 'the tropics', the feet of an average horse or pony remain just as healthy as the care they get permits them to be. Far more important than ambient temperature and humidity is the type of surface on which they are kept and exercised, and its maintenance.
 
I've had barefoot horses for 15+years and i have to say once they have become accustomed to being riden barefoot they usually find their own balance and therefore grip. my TBxWelsh is like lightening and can gallop full pelt down a grass field and stop within feet when i pull him up and turn on a six pence. very scary though because being barefoot is at the front of your mind!. are you sure it's not you thinking your horse is slipping and sliding but in actual fact just correcting her balance?? after all when you run down the field in a pair of wellies you slip and slide but just reposition your feet so you don't fall over. :)
 
Having evented a horse shod and with studs, and xc'd my barefoot horses, I'd say there is a big difference. Shod & with big studs we can just GO!!! Barefoot we have to take it easy cornering. My old cob fell (proper splat horse fall) on wet ground when barefoot so it's not just my imagination!
 
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