Barefoot Performance Horses

I can't see hoof casting adding anything in the grip department, certainly not on soft going, and it can bring its own problems with infection. As far as grip on soft going goes it does, both personally and from anecdotes, seem to be a very individual thing to the horse, some cope, some learn to cope and some remain hopeless. My own experiences would suggest that if you're doing genuine hard work on difficult surfaces and you can't afford for your hoof or hoof protection to let you down then unless you're very lucky nothing other than nailed on shoes are going to cut the mustard grip, reliability and capability wise. They're not the end of the world, you can always have them removed when you don't need them.
 
The cast isn't there to add grip

Yann, the cast isn't there to add the grip! The cast is there to give you something else to nail into instead of the hoof wall, or to act as a better foundation for "glue ons"! etc. Sorry if that wasn't clear to you from what I wrote. Have a look at the video and it may seem more obvious than a short description can manage.

Its getting quite wide use in racing and I've seen no reports of infection problems, even on badly damaged feet where it is primarily used.

Iron Maiden I know a few farriers who are using this and a few barefoot practitioners too so if you pm me I with an indication of your general location I may be able to suggest someone.
 
Well, I still haven't git hold of Nic etc of the UKNHCP site :(

I don't think the hoof cast thingys would be of much use to me, tbh - you've still got all the problems there of shoes, as far as I can see. I have plenty of fantastic good hoof onto which I could nail a rigid shoe, if I wanted to ... unfortunately, I just don't want to nail a rigid metal shoe onto a flexible blood-pumping structure - even by way of a hoof cast thing !

No_Angel - Rosie is the young saddlebred mare - she's 6 now, and never been shod. Do you think I should probably bite the bullet and just take her out barefoot ? I think I'm in the same position as your guys - we're basically on a big soft pasture, and as much as I try to get them out as much as possible - it's not enough to do the conditioning for the rock hard feet that she'd need to cope with the variability of this terrain.

I definitely think I should look into those super-grip easy-boots, though.
 
Kate . Please reread what I wrote. I think you will find that I made it quite clear that you don't have to use metal shoes but can construct a band of a relatively flexible "plastic" to aid grip, to which if need be you could fix studs to as well.

From my perspective the cast can actually be regarded as a kind of hoof boot, but just much less cumbersome than most and more tightly aligned to the horses natural foot with a greater range of ways of using it to improve grip.

The initial question wasn't about horn quality it was about an apparently good barefoot horse not getting enough grip and seeking ideas to try out to see if assistance with this could be found. This is something that could be tried without in anyway compromising the integrity of the foot thats all.

Its not a very expensive thing to try and has little downside risk. If you don't try anything new you will never learn much.
 
Kate . Please reread what I wrote. I think you will find that I made it quite clear that you don't have to use metal shoes but can construct a band of a relatively flexible "plastic" to aid grip, to which if need be you could fix studs to as well.

From my perspective the cast can actually be regarded as a kind of hoof boot, but just much less cumbersome than most and more tightly aligned to the horses natural foot with a greater range of ways of augmenting it to improve grip.

The initial question wasn't about horn quality it was about an apparently good barefoot horse not getting enough grip and seeking ideas to try out to see if assistance with this could be found. This is something that could be tried without in anyway compromising the integrity of the foot thats all.

Its not a very expensive thing to try and has little downside risk. If you don't try anything new you will never learn much.
 
Glue on hoof boot shells might be another option if you don't want to nail, both Renegade and Easycare have them either in production or development, but how good and reliable they are I don't know.

From my perspective the cast can actually be regarded as a kind of hoof boot,

Are you suggesting nailing in to the cast rather than the hoof wall? Would it be strong enough? I know numerous people using the PHW hoof wraps had trouble keeping them on, even without any additional torque or weight. There have been a few cases of rampant thrush under them too.
 
Do you get keratex out there?

I have been applying Keratex hoof hardener to the bottom of Shays feet to see if it will just harden it off enough that he is not bothered by the stones, unfortunately I haven't really had the time to test it out, the new place we are moving to is all stoney though so I will see what his feet think of that.

You could always try her once with no boots and see how she goes, then boot up/have a re-think if you need to after.

I have also seriously considered easyfoam, just need to get him some boots and actually ride him to see if it works,lol.
http://www.easycareinc.com/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;MULTI_ITEM_SUBMIT?company=EZC
 
Last edited:
Are you suggesting nailing in to the cast rather than the hoof wall? Would it be strong enough? I know numerous people using the PHW hoof wraps had trouble keeping them on, even without any additional torque or weight. There have been a few cases of rampant thrush under them too.


I could be wrong (can't get Boffin's earlier link to work) but I think we're talking about something like this - obviously not used to rebuild a crappy foot, but to augment a nice one so you can screw studs into it without needing a shoe.

http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/04/big-brown-most-famous-feet-in-derby.html

Shoeing isn't such an evil if you can find a decent farrier (sounds like one has been located :eek::eek::eek:) but it's always worth getting genned up on the potential alternatives ;)
 
Yes you nail into the cast not the hoof!

Yes you nail into the cast (if you want to use shoes) which is very strong indeed. Its actually probably stronger than hoof horn. Its made of a ballistic grade polyester ( ie the sort of fabric thats used in bullet proof jackets as a "sandwich"with kevlar) in a polurethane cement which sets in a few minutes, depending on the temperature.
The farrier in the video has given me the attached photos of an old cast he removed after six weeks with the shoe still attached. The inside view you can see two of the four nails in each side , the other two are completely buried in the cast. Apparently the two you can see were actually through some rebuild cement that was used on a damaged toe area but has crumbled away. They might have just grazed the horn but as he says in this instance he wasn't specifically trying to miss the horn and he certainly could if asked to. The old cast is still very strong and the shoe very firmly fixed to it. Interestingly although it is incredibly strong it still has some flex, especially in the heel area, so it does't restrict the natural flexing of the heels when the horse is worked.

I have now seen these applied to about thirty racehorses and a number of three day eventers and have yet to hear of one coming off. If you follow racing, last saturday Les Fazzani was just beaten to come second in the big listed race at Kempton Park. An hour before this he was lame, could't keep a shoe on one foot and the vet was going to refuse him permission to run. One of these casts fixed that in thirty minutes, just as in the video, although the actual problem was different, and he was only just beaten.

Also Jenny Hall, the vet of the British 3 day event team took some of these to Beijing this year. They weren't needed but it may give you an idea of the kinds of people who have evaluated them and see them as useful.

The final photo is obviously a model but its one the farrier made to demonstrate the use of the "plastic cement" to create a nailess glue on shoe just to illustrate the potential.

By the way re the question on Keratex. Have you tried reading the Keratex patent? I have and its just formaldehyde and aluminium chloride. Its no wonder Keratex has a reputation for making feet hard and brittle. The chemistry is very similar to that used in making leather, but no-one would use straight formaldehyde to make leather,guess why, because it makes hard brittle leather! And why they are putting aluminium sats on horse hooves is a mystery to me , but then I've only 35 years as a research biochemist in a major pharmaceutical company to guide me. Also the amount of formaldehyde in the product should cost about 3p so I wonder where the £25 cost to you comes from?
 

Attachments

  • Picture 015b.jpg
    Picture 015b.jpg
    17.8 KB · Views: 7
  • Picture 021a.jpg
    Picture 021a.jpg
    21 KB · Views: 9
  • Picture 003a.jpg
    Picture 003a.jpg
    15.7 KB · Views: 8
It does sound very interesting! My big reservation with this - certainly as regards the racing industry - is that we should be trying to breed in good feet, rather than patching up crappy ones & ending up with horses like Big Brown about to father a whole new generation of crappy footed TBs. In his case it can't have been wholly successful because he managed to remove a large enough chunk of his foot in training to have to be retired anyway. But I digress....:rolleyes:
 
Mmm... interesting .. but I'm not sure how it applies to my situation. A cast over the foot would surely protect the foot from wear - protect it from building up a tough callosed sole ? And it would reduce flexibility in the treated hoof, especially if some sort of a shoe were nailed to it, wouldn't it ?

Fot me, I'm not seeing any advantage of it over shoes. Thankyou though.
 
I am finding this interesting as Kia is barefoot (at the back) and we went to a very wet JumpX comp and he had more grip that some of the shod horses.....

Was wondering if he would cope with being barefoot over difficult going. Might have to take him out and see when the weather warms up.

I agree tho if you have to go back to shoes then its not a disaster. I am trying barefoot for the 2nd time after the first time went wrong.

Nikki xxxx
 
p.s., not sure about going back to shoes .... I've never ridden a shod horse !

(Well, ok, I have, but it was 20 years ago and I can't remember much about it except slipping a lot on roads )
 
Mmm... interesting .. but I'm not sure how it applies to my situation. A cast over the foot would surely protect the foot from wear - protect it from building up a tough callosed sole ? And it would reduce flexibility in the treated hoof, especially if some sort of a shoe were nailed to it, wouldn't it ?

Fot me, I'm not seeing any advantage of it over shoes. Thankyou though.

I agree, although maybe if the problem is excessive wear (as it would be for me if we hunted a full season) it could be a means to protect the hoof, without the nail holes & total rigidity that come with a shoe. Having said that, my biggest problem with farriers has always been the rubbish trim they do before the shoe goes anywhere near the foot & it wouldn't change that!
 
Yes you nail into the cast (if you want to use shoes) which is very strong indeed. Its actually probably stronger than hoof horn. Its made of a ballistic grade polyester ( ie the sort of fabric thats used in bullet proof jackets as a "sandwich"with kevlar) in a polurethane cement which sets in a few minutes, depending on the temperature.

This sounds very interesting. If it's so tough, could it not be attached without the shoe & be an alternative to a boot for protection? Pardon if you've already said, but how is it removed? Could it conceivably be reattached after trimming? Could it conceivably hold studs without a shoe?

By the way re the question on Keratex. Have you tried reading the Keratex patent? I have and its just formaldehyde and aluminium chloride. Its no wonder Keratex has a reputation for making feet hard and brittle. The chemistry is very similar to that used in making leather, but no-one would use straight formaldehyde to make leather,guess why, because it makes hard brittle leather! And why they are putting aluminium sats on horse hooves is a mystery to me , but then I've only 35 years as a research biochemist in a major pharmaceutical company to guide me. Also the amount of formaldehyde in the product should cost about 3p so I wonder where the £25 cost to you comes from?

Hmm, good to know. A lot of people swear by it. I've never liked the idea of using stuff like that, knew formaldehide was a problem, but by the same token had no interest to looked into it far.

IronMaiden;
- is that we should be trying to breed in good feet,

I'm not saying that breed traits are never a problem at all, but I think it's a far lesser issue than managing in good feet. There are so many examples of crap feet turning fantastic with the right diet, management, lifestyle, etc. So many examples of 'well bred' feet turning crap with the wrong - & unfortunately normal - treatment.
 
I'll try and answer as far as I can

Whilst I'm sure the cast will resist wear it must inevitably depend on the types of surface and conditions. There is a leaflet on the same site as the video which makes this point re barefoot. I presume this is why the "plastic shoe" made from polyurethane cement was developed. It acts as a sacrificial wear plate, much as a metal shoe, but without the nails, and protects the cast from premature wear as well as providing grip. Its also very easy to add a further layer of "cement" if it does wear too much.

I can't imagine the casts can be reused. Those I have seen removed are just "peeled off" by the farrier using a pair of 14" nips. My impression is that after 6 weeks or so the growth of the foot and natural losses from the surface of the horn means it comes off with a bbit of leverage. In the first couple of weeks after application it is very hard to get off- as the farrier in the video says "you will need a pneumatic drill". I don't know if you have ever got a really good glue on your skin, at first its very difficult to get off but natural growth and "shedding" processes means that a few days later it peels off easily. I guess the same with hoof horn, the growth and "shedding" is just much slower than with human skin.

As for screwing studs into the cast, I don't know but I suspect its too thin by itself but a 5mm layer of the "plastic cement" on the bearing surface may make this realistic , but I really don't know, I've not seen it done. Being a boffin I prefer experimental data to unsupported hypothesis. I can't imagine that it is too difficult for you to try and let everyone know how you get on.

If I may a few futher points about formaldehyde. I should make it clear that formaldehyde has its place. It's a very good disinfectant -still used for this for foot rot on cattle and sheep- and some hardness is not a bad thing. Howvever it should be used in combination with other things , such as are used for human nail hardeners. The chemistry is essentially identical but the reagents used on humans build in toughness and resilience not just hardness. They are though much more expensive. Mind you at £25 a bottle it must be possible!

I believe this may be what is behind the product ex Endurance UK Barefoot Champion Les Spark has on his website. Take a look, its an interesting site anyway and Les is very friendly, just email him and ask him what he thinks.

http://www.fnesaddles.com/Hooves-Barefoot.shtml.

As for breeding in better hooves, well, a good idea in principle but it will take at least 50 years and until then we will have to deal with the animal in front of us today. Unfortunately I just don't think it likely that breeding programs for racehorses are going to put hooves high up the selection criteria for traits to be selected for in choosing parents. I don't think it is totally ignored but other things are seen as more important. The rather famous stallion Mtoto had a good racing career and has sired quite a few high class winners. His feet were awful and so are many of his progenies eg Alfresco. But they keep winning which is what the breeders and owners focus on.

What we often forget is that millions of years of evolution went into the horse, largely suiting it for arid regions not the wet western continental climate we insist our horses live in. I think that excessive moisture and numerous wet-dry cycles are responsible for many of the foot issues we see in our horses that are rare where the climate is basically very dry. It doesn't matter if its hot or cold so long as its dry. Try taking a horse or a donkey to the tropics, their feet fall off in months. The warmth and moisture soften the hooves and encourage bacteria and the feet soon rot. Its not quite so bad in the UK as its often cold and not quite so wet so we get away with it most of the time, but it can be marginal. However if we get a warm wet spring next year after all the moisture this year, look out !
 
I have never had any kind of grip problems barefoot. Put many an endurance mile and hunting barefoot under me belt too.

Even against the clock in the SJ ring I was not plagued by grip issues.

Having said that the only horses I have competed barefoot have been hairy M&M types, low centre of gravity, and an inherent ability to stay upright.

Perhaps once the green youngster has calmed down a bit and pays more attention to what's going on, plus training will give you more traction.
 
However if we get a warm wet spring next year after all the moisture this year, look out !

I'm not sure how much of it is actually the wet itself and how much of it is the effect of the warm and wet on our grazing. My horse's feet are always at their best in the winter when it's theoretically the wettest time of year but the grass isn't growing.
 
Don't forget that it often takes months for hooves to get better or worse. The condition of the hoof today isn't often (apart from mechanical damage/accident) the result of its immediate or even recent environment, it reflects what will have happened over many months. So good hooves in wet early winter are often the result of several drier months some time ago. Similarly problems that appear in late spring as it warms and dries have actually been building up over the previous wet months and aren't directly due to the warmer drier weather.
Then , its a bit like mud drying, the cracks that were actually there but camouflaged by the wet , often slightly swollen horn, start to become apparent as it dries.

A classic example of this is the coronary seroma that we see a few racehorses get most years from racing on hard ground. Unless you have quite good detection techniques it's often not very obvious until 6-9months later when the cavity behind the dorsal wall that it has created grows down to the bearing surface and a great lump of toe then falls off. Everyone starts to ask what has happened recently to cause the damage to the toe but the answer actually lies in what happened often over half a year ago.
 
They can also deteriorate in a matter of weeks if we're talking wall flares and soles flattening out. The fact that this is invariably accompanied by heat in the hoof, raised pulses and increased sole sensitivity whilst unshod points to a metabolic rather than mechanical cause to me. It seems to be quite common in Tb's, mine is certainly affected in this way, and with her there's a direct correlation between the state of her feet and the amount of grass growth.
 
newrider.com