Confused about way of going....

[Mary Poppins]

My horse is currently working pretty hard. About 4 days a week I ride him twice day. One of these rides will be jumping/school work, and the other will be gentle (walk trot) hacking round the fields. He gets one 'easy' day a week where we just walk hack, and the other 2 days will be spent boxing out to shows/clinics. He needs this level of exercise to keep his weight down. We have been doing this routine for about 4 weeks now and have both increased significantly in fitness.

Recently we have made huge progress in his schooling and after an amazing lesson on Tuesday we can finally move forwards into a nice outline and maintain this outline whilst moving with impulsion. He has built up muscles in the correct place and looks and feels amazing. We have progressed with our jumping as well and he can happily pop 60/70 jumps and make a nice shape.

Well he did feel amazing anyway. On Friday we were at a dressage show and just as we were going down the centre line (in the best outline ever!) he didn't feel quite right. He felt slightly stiff and a little bit 'off'. We finished the test and the judge didn't comment that he was lame. On Saturday I rode him in the school and he felt stiff down his left shoulder. I trotted him up for the yard staff and he was not showing any signs of lameness and they couldn't see anything wrong with him. On Sunday we had an easy day, and then yesterday (Monday), we went in the school again and he just doesn't feel right. I trotted him up again for the yard manager (who is very experienced and knowledgeable). She saw him trot small circles, large circles, straight lines etc. and she said that he looks completely sound and moving forwards well.

I have booked the saddler and phsyio to come out next week, and I have cancelled my shows/lessons for this week.

However, my main niggle is am I now riding him 'correctly' (as in a connected outline) and so he actually now feels right, where his old wonky way of going was 'wrong'? Am I so used to feeling him 'wrong', that I now think that 'wrong' is 'right'? Surely if there was something physically wrong with him, we should be able to spot it from the ground?

I know this is muddled, but does anyone have any views or words of wisdom? I just feel confused.

 

[Trewsers]

I honestly don't know, but I hope you can find out what if anything isn't right. I know I got used to feeling when Storm wasn't quite right and sometimes nobody else could see it - but then again, I used to question whether it was me (probably not making sense here lol) and whether I was not sitting right or restricting her. Not saying at all you are doing that with him. I think it's good to get your physio to check him, cos presumably they have seen him before and know what is normal for him? And yes I know what you mean about now you are feeling wrong when it's right. Hopefully someone else on here can offer up an explanation.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I honestly don't know, but I hope you can find out what if anything isn't right. I know I got used to feeling when Storm wasn't quite right and sometimes nobody else could see it - but then again, I used to question whether it was me (probably not making sense here lol) and whether I was not sitting right or restricting her. Not saying at all you are doing that with him. I think it's good to get your physio to check him, cos presumably they have seen him before and know what is normal for him? And yes I know what you mean about now you are feeling wrong when it's right. Hopefully someone else on here can offer up an explanation.

I'm actually getting someone new out to see him. He only saw his normal physio about 6 weeks ago and she said he was absolutely fine. But I did have my doubts because he does find it difficult to use his right hind leg and struggles more on the left rein (my instructor pointed this out at least a year ago). As I am sitting straighter and stiller I am feeling this more and more whereas before I used to change my position to compensate. I just want someone with fresh eyes to give a totally fresh opinion.

 

[Trewsers]

I'm actually getting someone new out to see him. He only saw his normal physio about 6 weeks ago and she said he was absolutely fine. But I did have my doubts because he does find it difficult to use his right hind leg and struggles more on the left rein (my instructor pointed this out at least a year ago). As I am sitting straighter and stiller I am feeling this more and more whereas before I used to change my position to compensate. I just want someone with fresh eyes to give a totally fresh opinion.

Ah right, never thought of it like that - yes, a fresh pair of eyes might spot something different. Well I hope you find out more.

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

MP when was his teeth last checked? I can 'feel' when Ginger is not quite right but to those watching he looks fine but I can feel it.

He was off three weeks ago went from lovely to weird in a couple of days for him it was saddle that time the sudden grass has changed his shape.

I hope you find a simple answer

 

[Mary Poppins]

MP when was his teeth last checked? I can 'feel' when Ginger is not quite right but to those watching he looks fine but I can feel it.

He was off three weeks ago went from lovely to weird in a couple of days for him it was saddle that time the sudden grass has changed his shape.

I hope you find a simple answer

His teeth were last done in November. He has them done yearly as part of his annual health check. I think that if the saddler and the physio give him a clean bill of health then I will get his teeth checked early.

It is comforting to know that you can also 'feel' things which others cannot see. I am beginning to doubt my sanity but I can't shake that feeling that he just isn't as even as he used to be. He has lost weight and muscled up this year, both his dressage and jumping girths have gone up 2 holes so perhaps it is the saddle. The saddler is booked in a few days after the physio.

I am slightly worried that he is developing arthritis in his front legs. When I suspected he had laminitis in March I called the vet out who couldn't find much wrong with him (he had an abscess in the end) but she said that in such a big horse it is common to find arthritis in the joints. He is now 13, so not exactly old, but not exactly young either.

I am debating how much to ride him and how hard to work him. He needs all the exercise to keep his weight down and he isn't at all lame. I have decided not to jump him until the physio has been so it's hacking and/or schooling.

 

[domane]

Am I right in remembering that he is part Shire? Just thinking aloud here.... draught horses have evolved to be cart-pullers. To work on the forehand and to have cow hocks so that they can walk down the furrows of a ploughed field without disturbing the rest of the field. In my mind, if they are schooled to engage the hind end and lift their backs, as lovely as it looks and feels, you may be putting pressure on joints that are not meant to be pressured.

Or he may have just tweaked something hooning around in the field

Either way, I hope to can get to the bottom of it swiftly xx

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

I use to get Gingers teeth done once a year but the last time he recommended both boys were looked at sooner so 6 months. Chanter because he is old and the food gets stucks and ginger because he was quite sore

If his girth has gone up that much I would deffo get that checked. Again Gingers are checked every 6 months because of the change from winter to summer and to be honest they are adjusted every time even through his work load is the same all year round.

He is a big horse I would probable not jump as much. I only jump once a week or twice if I have a jump comp which is not that often as he has been a little off jumping lately.

 

[Trewsers]

I used to get the girls teeth checked every six months before they grew old. I think its a good idea to rule it out as already suggested.

 

[joellie]

@domane makes a good point about his breeding and changing his way of going. Hopefully he will get the all clear but I can always feel when something is wrong with my lad well before anyone can spot anything, I can just feel when something is not right even if I can't tell exactly what it is.So you are right to rule everything out, go by your gut instinct

 

[Silvia]

Maybe he is a bit sore from using the correct muscles now and not being used to it? In that case it would make sense to keep working him in an outline and to see if he adjusts.

 

[Kite_Rider]

I was thinking along the same lines as @domane too, big horse and a lot of work could be possibly putting more strain on those big joints.
Could be teeth, as others have said - Belle needs done every 6 months and I can tell when they need doing, you know your horse better than anyone else @Mary Poppins if something 'feels wrong' to you i'd trust your own judgement and get a few checks done.

 

[Flipo's Mum]

Trust your gut. I've very often felt something or thought I saw something out of the corner of my eye and everyone else veto's it so I just let it go....and then it becomes more pronounced and I kick myself for not listening to my own feelings to start with.
My horse first went 'off' at age 11 and we found arthritic changes in his fronts. They said this was consistent with his age and type, but it made me more conscious of it and I no longer school, have never jumped more than the odd occasion, and don't tend to ride at anything more than a walk on roads, avoiding them like the plague in general.
I'm guessing its highly likely he has some sort of arthritic changes - the vets were initially shocked by what they found in my lad...but they did add that it was a lot for a normal horse, and my horse is not normal.

 

[Mary Poppins]

He is a big horse I would probable not jump as much. I only jump once a week or twice if I have a jump comp which is not that often as he has been a little off jumping lately.

When I say 'jumping' we have 2 sessions per week. One of these is just pole work with variety of trot and canter poles. We have recently introduced cantering on a 20m circle with 4 poles at each 90 degree angle and our aim is to get an even number of strides. I will often put down 4 or 5 canter poles with the aim of getting him forward enough to keep an even stride through it. We sometimes do raised trot poles but I get annoyed when he knocks them and I have to get off.

We then have one focused proper jumping session per week, but we only jump 50/60cm and I never push him too hard. We are aiming for a 70cm course this year, but he is 16.1hh and it's nothing too taxing for him.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Maybe he is a bit sore from using the correct muscles now and not being used to it? In that case it would make sense to keep working him in an outline and to see if he adjusts.

Yes, I think that this is the most likely cause. I have had him 6 years and we have gone from being absolutely dreadful at everything (think 2 strides of trot before he stopped!) and moving along with his nose on the ground, to riding in BD affiliated competitions. I have been having lessons with an excellent instructor for the last 18 months and she has completely transformed us and taught me how to ride properly. We had been able to maintain our outline in a slow trot, but when I ask for more impulsion his head use to come up and his nose poke forward. In my lesson last week it was like we both suddenly 'got it' and he felt amazing to ride. So light and bouncy and completely unlike how he previously used to go. Since then, it's like he has now got the hang of it and is now easy to put into the outline and hold it. He is such a good boy and eager to please, it feels like he has suddenly worked out what I am asking him to do and has now decided to move differently.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Trust your gut. I've very often felt something or thought I saw something out of the corner of my eye and everyone else veto's it so I just let it go....and then it becomes more pronounced and I kick myself for not listening to my own feelings to start with.
My horse first went 'off' at age 11 and we found arthritic changes in his fronts. They said this was consistent with his age and type, but it made me more conscious of it and I no longer school, have never jumped more than the odd occasion, and don't tend to ride at anything more than a walk on roads, avoiding them like the plague in general.
I'm guessing its highly likely he has some sort of arthritic changes - the vets were initially shocked by what they found in my lad...but they did add that it was a lot for a normal horse, and my horse is not normal.

I had a good long talk with my yard manager about arthritis at the weekend. She said that it is likely that x-rays would show arthritic changes because all horses of his age would have change to some degree. It's a natural part of aging. But she also said (and my vet said this too when she saw him earlier in the year), that the best thing for early stages of arthritis is to keep them moving and that the ground conditions were hugely important. She said that school work on a surface is much better than hacking on hard ground/roads and that weight management was so important to. The vet said that I need to keep him in a good level of work until he either comes completely sound, or he breaks down. She was not a fan of resting him at all and said that it would be the worst thing to do in the long term.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Am I right in remembering that he is part Shire? Just thinking aloud here.... draught horses have evolved to be cart-pullers. To work on the forehand and to have cow hocks so that they can walk down the furrows of a ploughed field without disturbing the rest of the field. In my mind, if they are schooled to engage the hind end and lift their backs, as lovely as it looks and feels, you may be putting pressure on joints that are not meant to be pressured.

Or he may have just tweaked something hooning around in the field

Either way, I hope to can get to the bottom of it swiftly xx

Yes, he is a heavy horse but I am only asking him to do prelim level work. We also ride on a good surface and we always warm up and cool down properly. I don't think that just because he is part shire then he isn't capable of riding in an outline. It is good for his whole body to work through his back and use his hind end properly. It's also good for him to have a focus and something to think about when we are schooling. We only really do circles and basic lateral work, it's nothing that he can't or shouldn't be doing. If you look at any dressage warm up arena, you will see many cobs and heavier breeds doing dressage.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I was thinking along the same lines as @domane too, big horse and a lot of work could be possibly putting more strain on those big joints.
Could be teeth, as others have said - Belle needs done every 6 months and I can tell when they need doing, you know your horse better than anyone else @Mary Poppins if something 'feels wrong' to you i'd trust your own judgement and get a few checks done.

Yes, I can't deny that the extra work might put strain on his joints, but the extra weight that he would gain from not working so hard wouldn't be good for him either. But then again, when you think of a very fit person, the exercise strengthens their joints and bones, and they become fitter and healthier and then able to do more work. Why would that be any different for horses?

 

[Kite_Rider]

Yes, I can't deny that the extra work might put strain on his joints, but the extra weight that he would gain from not working so hard wouldn't be good for him either. But then again, when you think of a very fit person, the exercise strengthens their joints and bones, and they become fitter and healthier and then able to do more work. Why would that be any different for horses?

It wasn't a criticism, just an observation. Re humans, agree exercise strengthens joints and bones and cardio vascular fitness but many fit people also suffer joint/ligament problems bought on by repetitive strain so yes you are quite correct, why would that be any different for horses.

 

[Mary Poppins]

It wasn't a criticism, just an observation. Re humans, agree exercise strengthens joints and bones and cardio vascular fitness but many fit people also suffer joint/ligament problems bought on by repetitive strain so yes you are quite correct, why would that be any different for horses.

I suppose when any human ups their exercise then they will initially feel aches and pains as well. I know that I did when I first started increasing my riding (my knees were killing me) but they are fine now.