Horses feet? Why oh why???!!!!

We were talking about this at teh weekend{Dakota is barefoot,but shoes will never be ruled out and I pat his feet when checking them just to get him used to things that may have to be done in the future},
I have met horse 30 plus years old who have been shoed all their lives,so I think there is more to it than just hammering shoes on, because how did these 30 plus year old horse stay sound.
I enjoy seeing the Fell ponies too in Cumbria and their feet always look very good,I guess they cover a lot more ground than most horses here.
:)
I forgot to mention,Dakotas feet had never been trimed before I got him, they look great now,but I would never rule out shoes.
We were particularly carefull who trimed his feet{he has quiet a reputation does D,but he has never ever let us see it}and he was a star for the farrier.
 
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WOW! such incredible passion going on here!!! :D :D :D
..and for which reason?
an excellent one actually, each and every one of us dealing with what can bast be described as The Renaissance of the Horse.

It is a marvellous (but unsettling) thing. A time during which everything to do with horse-keeping is under re-evaluation...and this will ultimately be for the better, because of our genuine love of the horse.

Even when we disagree, we are like branches on the same tree fighting amongst ourselves :rolleyes:
We all love our horses and all believe we are doing the best by them. Occasionally we clash with someone whose ego insists that they are right on some matter and this mostly clashes with another's ego who insists that they are wrong on some matter!

But if you pay close attention, you will find that most people are just wanting to do the best thing by their horses. We are not satisfied with anything less, and it is good that we rant and rail about it, as this will ensure that this wonderful Renaissance is being steered in the right direction. If we were all 'ho-hum' about it all then how else would the wrong stuff (like Strasser!) be routed out?

I follow the Equine Podiatry route, and don't mind in the least if folk come up with a critique of the method. It is the most water-tight method I know about, but your critique may just shed new light on something hitherto unnoticed. I would welcome this :D because I want the best for my horse.

So all I am trying to say is this: remember, shod or unshod... horse lovers are all ultimately on the same side, pushing for the same ends. And its happening! just take a look all around you...the Renaissance is underway.

And whenever you bump heads with those who's egos declare that they are right then remember that the feisty debates which come as a result of this, are the necessary 'test of fire' that will enable all of us to sort the good from the rubbish:
All good is that which benefits the horse (no excuses). And this includes all shoeing practices. It is good to recognize that shoeing is good for the rider, enabling him/her to use the horse beyond the present capabilities of their horses feet. And this is OK, it really is much better to do this rather than wearing their feet to a stub, just so as to make a point about being barefoot!

All rubbish is that which hurts the horse (no excuses) There is absolutely NO reason that can justify such an angle. So if ANYONE attempts to justify soreing a horse for any reason...THIS IS RUBBISH!
When we hurt our horses in any manner, we have made a mistake. And this of course applies to anything - not just being barefoot.

In fact we are all looking for the ever improved, radiantly healthy, forever sound, content and co-operative Equine.
So Comrades! :D
if any of you have any advise on how to get all of the above (right now)... I feel I speak for everyone here: we are listening :D :D :D
 
Rebecca00 said:
There is one lady at my yard who took it upon herself to do a TWO DAY course on how to trim her horse! (uummmmmm!:confused: ) This is fine if its just her horse that shes doing! But shes now charging people about £25 to pare their feet which she does once a week?????:confused: (shouldn't that be every 8 weeks?) The horses are lame, have sensitive feet, their feet are uneven a few of them have not got a matching pair, quite a few are having a problem with their White line.

When my farrier came to shoe my horse he saw some of the horse feet and was disgusted with them! Farriers have to train for years and years to get to be able to pare and shoe horses feet and now you can train for TWO DAYS and suddenly you can be qualified! WHEN WILL THE FARRIER COUNCIL PUT A STOP TO THIS!:D
These people on my yard my talk the talk, but at the end of the day they just recite from books!
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I don't know if this has already been pointed out (for once I haven't read all through the thread) but it's worth pointing out again: Doing anything for money to the feet of any horse except your own, by anyone except a vet or a registered farrier, in the UK is ILLEGAL and should be reported.

No, sorry - I've just checked. Apparently it only counts as farriery if you're putting shoes on or preparing the foot for shoeing.

http://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/

But it also says this:

"However, horse owners should be aware that although, simple trimming and rasping of horses’ feet is allowed by lay persons under the Act to permit maintenance of foals’ and other unshod horses’ feet. Where more radical trimming and reshaping of horses’ feet is contemplated there is the potential for creating severe lameness. Experience has indicated this is particularly so where such ‘therapy’ is not undertaken by qualified farriers or veterinary surgeons.


Incorrect trimming of horses’ hooves over an extended period can also cause lameness. Horses suffering from significant foot disease such as laminitis should in any case be under the care of a veterinary surgeon. This is to ensure that appropriate treatment is carried out and that any necessary medication is prescribed, the prime object being the welfare of the animal concerned.

Both the practice of radical foot trimming by lay persons resulting in significant lameness, and/or failure to provide veterinary attention under these circumstances may engender suffering and consequent criminal proceedings under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 or the Protection of Animals (Scotland) Act 1912"
[/]

http://frc.gotadsl.co.uk:7000/frc/FAQ.asp?Page=horseownersfaqs&ID=13

So it seems to me that what she is doing is still probably illegal, even though it's not "farriery".

Linda
 
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Rowena, what a good reply! I'm not going to reply myself as I think enough people have - but just had to comment on your post Rowena! :)
 
Well, reading through this thread (crikey, it took me a lifetime!) has certainly helped me. Rowena is right, we are all working for the greater good of our ponies' welfare which is great. Most people were agreeing, just not with what they believed the OP was saying.

I went barefoot 3 weeks ago, not even knowing about all the arguments pro/con. I had no strong feelings about it, he just isn't ridden on any hard surfaces and isn't in hard work and has strong feet, so I asked myself why I was shoeing him.

I was going to see how it turned out and if necessary return to shoeing. I am pleased to say that there has been no 'footiness', not even at the beginning and I am very pleased!

I think that some people's version of NH is like some parents' views of 'kinder parenting' (oh by crikey, i have opened a can of worms here!)... there does, at the end of the day, need to be some discipline.. maybe not physical, but at least so the horse/child understand who is higher in the hierarchy. Horses walking all over their owners and doing what they please is not NH, which I believe is more of an understanding of the horse's needs... not letting them run ramshod over you. It's all about respect - reciprocal

People who think that horses should just do as they wish (as in the OP), are heading for disaster!

Rowena, i am glad you bumped this thread as I was not around for a while and found it very interesting!
 
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Well said Rowena .. (we need an "applause" icon here)



have discussed the "natural" topic many times and although its only the addition of a few letters I prefer to define what I personally do as "naturalISTIC" horse management , in that is not completely natural for the horse .... but its as close as I personally can manage to get it.


since the topic started with feet as the main point ...

Like Wally and some others I rasp and otherwise maintain Taz's feet myself .... with checks every few months from a farrier who has not had to do anything at all to her in over a year ( and even then its only nipping off a little bit.) If I want to do more than her hoof growth dictates then I use boots ( my preference as they can be taken off after we each trip out).

I am not evangelical about it and do not think it is "cruel" to shoe provided its well done ......... but I think that there are many horses shod that really dont need to be.
 
CMR calm down; Rebecca is only expressing what she has seen of it It is like in all things a lot of people take it on without being fully informed of what they're doing. And yes it's a shame as it gives NH a bad image. Don't take it so personally. Look at it. Can I learn anything from these comments as I'm sure Rebecca is learning from the responses; I think Wally explains it best about barefoot;' It suits some horses and not others for the reasons he explains; I've had a mixture of both types of horses. Some needing shoes' some never having shoes. But although barefoot has been around forever it is good to be brought into the limelight as I have met so many adults who have always shod and kept shod any horse they have ever had without ever having questioned why they do it.
No offence meant to anyone otherwise you'll have to come out to Australia and tell me off in person and while you are here you can help me with my 2 horses (joking) Kindenst regards Oldbushy:)
 
oldbushy said:
But although barefoot has been around forever it is good to be brought into the limelight as I have met so many adults who have always shod and kept shod any horse they have ever had without ever having questioned why they do it.
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Yep, that was me! Until, that was, I saw a FEMALE 'doing' a horse's feet at our yard (strange in itself) and NOT putting shoes on afterwards. "Well weird" I thought but being naturally nosey edged closer to have a look. Inspired by what I was hearing and seeing I went about researching this *new* barefoot fad thing! This woman seemed to be intelligent and was certainly talking a lot of sense. Mmmm ... maybe these barefoot trimmers weren't so bad after all!

The day Saffy's shoes came off I was horrified, I had left her in the 'tender' care of our 'ok' farrier. Apart from a split up the front of her hoof they looked ok in shoes. I was soon to find that 'ok' wasn't good enough, her feet were unbalanced which had given them no choice but to split. As I learned more I became even more horrified at how little I knew and at how little I'd been involved with her feet apart from regular farrier visits and picking them out regularly. My trainer noticed the difference in her movement immediately, she had much more movement especially through her shoulders. He has since said that it was probably a very good thing that I did for her (and his horses aren't barefoot!).

She's been barefoot now for about 18 months and is doing really well. Although I'd never say never to shoes I hope that I never need to put them on her or any other horses that I own ever again. Barefoot isn't for everyone though for a variety of reasons, some owner related, some horse related. I do, however, expect people who criticise my decision to criticise me from an educated viewpoint :)
 
Rebecca00 does the inland revenue know she has earnings from trimming horses? Maybe they would like to know and that might help put a stop to it. Would she need to have some kind of liability insurance also??
 
FRED said:
I have met horse 30 plus years old who have been shoed all their lives,so I think there is more to it than just hammering shoes on, because how did these 30 plus year old horse stay sound.
QUOTE]

Just out of interest... ;)

you are quite right! There is more to it than just hammering shoes on.
And it is precisely that something more that is the crux of the matter in the Barefoot movement.

One of the reasons that shoes can be a problem is that the foot does not receive the same stimulus in a shoe, as it does au natural. And it is this stimulus which promotes the growth of healthy structures in the foot. And these healthy structures grow stronger, and in turn produce the proper suspension and support necessary for sound - bare - feet.

There really is nothing woo-woo about it.
Anyone had a broken arm?, worn a cast? ..
and did you find your arm somewhat weaker after the cast was removed? Well this is the same for the horses feet. The shoe acts as a cast, supporting feet that are not currently up to the job in hand. Only problem is... they gradually become weaker.

The whole point about responsible barefoot, is that you must have all the necessary know-how (plus tons of sensible theory to inform all your decisions - assumptions about 'wild' horses simply aren't enough ) when you plan a course of rehabilitation that produces positive results without ANY PAIN whatsoever.

Truly getting horses feet fit, strong, and sound barefoot is a worthy skill, but not one to be taken on by anyone without at least a year of proper theoretical training (not to mention the practical training).

But when handled appropriately, it is a worthy skill (for the good of the horse).
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I agree with some parts... I think that ppl who want to trim feet should be totally qualifiied- tell the farrier council!

But I have to say that I think that Natural horsemanship is a mirical worker! Lol!

Cya! Good luck!
 
I think I'm coming from the same point of view as Wally, here, only over the terrain that we ride over we tend to run out of foot at about 20-25 miles. But all the while they have enough foot, we don't shoe them. They flip in and out of shoes quite easily without taking a duff step, and their feet aren't riddled with white line disease or anything when shoes come off. The reason - we have a very good farrier and we don't let them go much more than 4 weeks between shoes in the summer so the angles don't get too far off where they should be. And yes, I will tidy the feet up myself between farrier visits.

I'm not a great fan of putting different methods of doing horses into labelled boxes, either, so that you have to take it all or nothing. I'd rather it was about each individual horse owner/keeper treating each horse as an individual and doing the right thing for the individual horse.

I just wanted to comment on this thread because of the references to hoof boots.

Hoof boots have improved 100% over recent years, to the point where they are now a viable alternative to shoes for the trail horse. One of ours can't be shod at all and he's used hoof boots for quite a few years now if we're going somewhere that he needs protection. And I'm currently experimenting with a set of Old Mac G2s for one of my other guys. I started out witha very open mind and have been extremely impressed. They are lighter, less clompy, extremely easy/quick to put on and fit, and don't slow him down in the slightest :rolleyes: ;) The breakover is good too - the equivalent to the rolled toes that he has if he's shod. It's like putting a set of Nikes on him. The jury is still out as to whether they will cope with longer rides, but I've asked quite a lot of them already and not had a problem.
 
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