Over-riding

domane

domane

Retired cob mum
Jul 31, 2005
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One of the demos on Saturday at YHL was presented by a chap called Nuck Turner and the subject was arena XC training. There were two horses....a 16-hander slender TB type, 12yo, knew it's job and a bigger, chunkier 6yo who was already eventing, but inexperienced, obviously. Both ridden nicely and quietly by a pair of young girls. The younger horse was excitable and rushed everything, the older horse's rider initially "placed" the horse at each jump. Nick is an advocate of learning to "point and shoot" and the session was about letting go (to a degree) and allowing the horse to find its own stride. He had them riding the same two fences 2 times but wanted a different amount of strides each time. It was fascinating, in particular watching the older horse's rider who really struggled to let go of her instincts to "put" the horse to the fence.

I don't think I'll ever be at that stage in my riding, but it was good to see a more relaxed attitude to XC.
 
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I think it depends on the horse. Amber needs putting to a fence or she just lengthens and runs. She jumps 3 stride doubles off 2 left to her own devices. Which is fine at 70/80 but she won't get away with it any higher than that. I've actually stopped jumping her for now - I am just 'jumping' round poles on the ground making her sit up and listen and let me control the length of stride and the pace. Max is fine to find his own way round a course though.
 
Though I think I am probably missing the point!! I am not micro-managing the jumping bit - just the quality and rideability of the canter in between the fences. I think that is different to the 'placing' of a horse in front of the fence which I don;t try and do.
 
KP nut said:
I think it depends on the horse. Amber needs putting to a fence or she just lengthens and runs. She jumps 3 stride doubles off 2 left to her own devices. Which is fine at 70/80 but she won't get away with it any higher than that. I've actually stopped jumping her for now - I am just 'jumping' round poles on the ground making her sit up and listen and let me control the length of stride and the pace. Max is fine to find his own way round a course though.
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I think you are in the teaching phase though as amber is still relatively inexperienced, you are having to guide her but from what I know about you I suspect you will be looking to teach her to not require your constant input as she progresses :) I think of it like carriage, to start with you support them in carriage but the eventual aim is for them to achieve self carriage :)
 
Jessey said:
I think you are in the teaching phase though as amber is still relatively inexperienced, you are having to guide her but from what I know about you I suspect you will be looking to teach her to not require your constant input as she progresses :) I think of it like carriage, to start with you support them in carriage but the eventual aim is for them to achieve self carriage :)
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Yes that's true. She is still pretty green and very over enthusiastic!!
 
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I think it's vital that a xc horse or hunter learns to sort things out for itself. No matter how good the rider there are going to be times when things go wrong & when they do there may not be time for the rider to assess the situation & correct and that's when it's so important tp have a horse that can think for itself & save you both. They don't learn that skill if they're constantly looking to the rider, but it's a fine line because you don't want a horse that just takes over whenever it fancies.
 
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Yes, I've very much taught Pete to figure things out himself - hence why I've never been too worried about exact stridings between or positioning of poles or jumps.

It's my job to ride to it & support him if need be, but his job to get over the pole or jump (or whatever else it might be) and sort his own legs out.

I've had to be mindful in my training of his confidence & his mental health a little bit in the process so it's not overwhelming jum then later down the line, let him have take over alter or build up to th but

I don't think it's a huge coincedence that Pete can find his way through any obstacle out hacking be it trees, hedges, bridges, streams, ditches or up and down banks as he's used to thinking for himself.
 
Nick Turner is a fantastic coach and really insists in training the horse to think for himself. It certainly worked well with Chucka who had sessions with him at the begining and end of this season and will now jump anything from any stride!!

He is also brilliant with really novice horses setting them up exercises so they learn for themselves without needing micromanaging.

He also did rather well with the Irish team who he coached for the Olympics
 
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That's really interesting. I've had a couple of XC lessons recently with an actual proper eventer and she straight away told me and my friend that she didn't want us trying to stride the horses into a jump as it isn't like show jumping. I don't know enough to know exactly what the differences are :p (someone like @elm will). However the instructor did want us to control speed and direction. She had us going round the arena in a light seat down the long sides and slowing down coming round the bend and into the obstacle, which was two barrels on their sides with a gap in between, that got narrower on each pass, until they were both together and we had to jump them. The point of slowing into the jump was to give the horses chance to see and assess the obstacle, we still had to use our legs to ride into the jump, but we weren't trying to control their strides.

It did feel quite different to be allowed to be so free and easy with our riding style and not to be trying to control our horses' movements the whole time. I got the impression that SJ is different again though :)
 
Ok numpty question, how do you "put a horse to a fence"?
My guess is that I don't if I don't really know what you guys are talking about.

My job is to have enough impulsion, turn in so she has time to see it and for the most part be straight! She gets on with it. I don't even put my leg on, I have turned into an obstacle obviously you clear it. I did that xc with my last chap, he just got with it.
 
To my novice eye, it really looked to me like the rider kept a tight rein and could literally "place" the horse in her preferred take-off space by adjusting the size of the strides on approach. It was all very controlled and calculated. To be honest, to me it looked lovely and it wasn't until he told her to let the horse's head out and not look at the jump, that you really saw the horse chill, relax and make its own decisions. The rider found it really hard to let go and pass the responsibility on to the horse :p

What I also forgot to say was that he told the riders that as soon as the horse took off, they had to look for their next fence...that once the horse took off, they were committed to tge jump so the actual going over and landing were sorted, so the approach to the next jump became the matter in hand.

Gracie deffo has a "just point me at the jump and I'll sort the rest out" attitude. The more I learn, the more I realise how much she nails it for me.
 
Eventers and eventing show jumping relies on lines rhythm and quality of pace ie impulsion . Pure showjumping over enormous jumps needs a horse to be carefully placed by a rider a totally different skill at top levels but needlessly worrying to be taught for many riders over club courses I confess to being intent in the past at getting hung up on 'seeing a stride' and 'correct leading leg' when not really relevent to the level I was doing or teaching.:rolleyes:

Our last session with him was as an example aimed at horses established at BE100 and aiming to go up to Novice BE next season Exercises included offset lines and curving or off centre approaches interspersed with cavaletti bounce lines all to be ridden in a good canter wih extensions up the long side between lines of questions.
 
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This thread is very interesting. This is an entirely uneducated comment. That when via TV I first saw Michael Jung go round Badminton, he did look as if he was positioning his horse at each jump, as per show jumping. That is his style of riding differed from other riders.
Sojme of you who actually event may like to look at video of Jung going cross country and say what you think.
There may always be an exception depending on rider and horse. William Funnell said after winning a jumping competition at Windsor (we were there) that he could ride the first three jumps but after that the mare took over. She was like that.
 
There are so many different ways to approach jumping that I suspect no one way is ever correct for all horses and riders Years ago I was taught to hold and the ride the last three strides to a fence and take off offering a crest release. This was successful for me for years (riding up to 1m10 competitively) until I did BHS exams where rythmic approach and correct leg seemed to be the aim. I them encountered an instructor adamant on counting strides to place the horse and totally lost all ability to jump

I am amazed at the difference in my daughters jumping skills with her new Nick Turner influenced Lars Sederholm trained instructor. Her last Olympic eventer instructor gave her courage This one has added technical skills and changed her position to help the horse resulting in much better rounds both SJ and XC possibly not however geared to pass further exams!!
 
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I was thinking about this thread today. I have just been doing polework using five poles on the lunge.
There is only one foot step difference between the cob's extended trot and her collected canter. She worked out and decided whether or not to stay in trot and shorten up or canter. I haven't interfered with her stride because it's hers and it's changed as she has muscled up/ got fitter/ older/ confident and I think if you try to see a stride you horse might not see the same one because you haven't taken into account that it will change?
 
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