Pedal Bone Rotated and sunken ( H e l p )

R

rockymountain

Member
Jun 3, 2009
210
1
18
Falmouth, Cornwall UK
My poor horse has just been xrayed and has Pedal bone rotation and sunken which is worse in the left fore leg.

She is 14 years old and came from the USA where she wore shoes, she came over here to the UK as a brood mare for 5 years without shoes, I purchased her in December last year ans kept her barefoot since she has been trimmed three times I noticed that after every trim she wa sgetting very footy over the stones so decided to have her x-rayed.

The vet has said that there are different ways to go and was not pushy on any of them.

1) Keep her barefoot re-balance ( lower the heels & pull back the toe ) box rest for 9 months

2) Re-Balance as above and box rest for 2 - 4 weeks shoe using Equipac or Vettec pads for 9-12 months, after the trim will be very sore so will use anti-inflamitries

Vet to work with farrier to achive 2) above and will put on Meffium for 3 months to help weight loss and re-xray in 3 months.

Is this a normal case ?

Everyone I spek to gives me different advise, I would like to keep her barefoot but will probably go the shoe route until all of this has settled down.



Soak hay and use Hi-Fi Lite strip grazing as well

If all goes well should be able to ride after approx 3 months
 
rockymountain said:
My poor horse has just been xrayed and has Pedal bone rotation and sunken which is worse in the left fore leg.

She is 14 years old and came from the USA where she wore shoes, she came over here to the UK as a brood mare for 5 years without shoes, I purchased her in December last year ans kept her barefoot since she has been trimmed three times I noticed that after every trim she wa sgetting very footy over the stones so decided to have her x-rayed.

The vet has said that there are different ways to go and was not pushy on any of them.

1) Keep her barefoot re-balance ( lower the heels & pull back the toe ) box rest for 9 months

2) Re-Balance as above and box rest for 2 - 4 weeks shoe using Equipac or Vettec pads for 9-12 months, after the trim will be very sore so will use anti-inflamitries

Vet to work with farrier to achive 2) above and will put on Meffium for 3 months to help weight loss and re-xray in 3 months.

Is this a normal case ?

Everyone I spek to gives me different advise, I would like to keep her barefoot but will probably go the shoe route until all of this has settled down.



Soak hay and use Hi-Fi Lite strip grazing as well

If all goes well should be able to ride after approx 3 months
Click to expand...

Many have been kept sucessfully barefoot with a diagnosis like this but its not an easy, quick or cheap route - If it where mine then I would speak with an EP get their recommendations and then make an informed decision - at the end of the day its not about barefoot v shoes, its what shes going to be able to live with long term.
I do hope you find the solution soon............
 
barefoothoof.co.uk is something recommended on here to me, fantastic site.

Im not quiet sure how to you can lower the heels and pull back the toes... can you get some pics? (front, side and under of each foot?)

Would also, if you want to keep barefoot, look at getting her some boots perhaps for the mean time? Would also be slightly concerned over the diagnosis that after every trim she will get sorer! Maybe for a few days, but not 6weeks!

Would also look at diet, minimise grass intake, feed hay instead (soaked) if an option, cut out unecessary hard feed and look at supplements - magnesium can be fantastic for helping with footyness. I use the naf slimline and my two are rock crunching since theyve been on it (has mg in it)
 
Sounds like the feet are currently flared with high heels? Which would suggest a poor trimming job and hence mechanical laminitis? Can you post photos?

I'd be inclined to treat this as "regular" laminitis - get her in off the grass, into a stable with a deep shavings bed throughout, feed soaked hay, and give a small bucket of speedibeet with a painkiller (either Danilon or Bute) and magnesium in twice a day. I'd rather have small trims done regularly (by a different farrier if the current one has caused the problem! Would definitely get an EP's opinion too) to get her feet back balanced, and take regular x-rays, rather than doing a radical trimming job which will make her sore and could adversely affect her tendons and ligaments.

Good luck, I hope you can get her sorted.
 
Hi

Sorry to confuse you - basically he said that directly after the trim she will be a bit sore on her feet this will last a few days, but the pads will help her.

she is on speedi beet ( non suger variety ) with Magnisium Oxide so I will replace the Speedi Beet with Hi FI Lite and still use the Mag Ox and will give her Cod liver oil.

She just has a haynet that has been soaked in the evening.

She is boxed from about 4.00pm until about 10.00am then she is out on the grass ( stripped grazing ).

I might split the HI Fi Lite in two feeds.

The X-rays are Analogue and I will not be picking them up until tuesday.
 
I would stable her in the day, and out at night - less sugars in the grass at night, though will not necessarily be the case if it starts getting frosty.

Also be careful with the hifi - alfalfa can make them footy - I would either stick with speddibeet or get the fibrebeet variety.

Why are you feeding CLO?

The grass is growing at the moment, so again very sugary. Have you got a school/concrete area/coral/rubble area you can turn her out on with a haynet instead of grass?
 
rockymountain said:
Thanks Lemme

Yep I agree, she has been very sore now for about 6 weeks especially over stones and i have been told that every time after a trim her feet will become even sorer.

I will ask
Thanks again

sandra
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We had no rotation or sinking, remedial trimming initially 3 weekly, 2 weeks would be sore and then sound for a few days, then trim and off we went again, gradually the length of time of soreness after the trim reduced and time between trimming lengthened - also problems with mobility and ligament and tissues but we got there in the end about 6 months, had another episode this year ( we have winter lami - due to reduced turnout and concussion following injury - dreading it coming around again next year - just hoping we can keep injury free and keep out, but we have boots to help now)
again he has been sound now for approx 6 weeks, 3 months I think is possibily optomistic with the rotation and sinking - even with a good remedial plan - if you checkout Bobcats threads on Lami now abcess you will see that poor Bobs is into 18 months since his first episode........ other complications but he had rotation.

I do hope you find the right management and remedial plan , it not hopeless just each one is different and you have to be prepared for a bit of a rollercoaster if all does not go smoothly.

do keep us updated on how you get on and join us on the lammi thread we generally have a good bounce round of ideas and experiences and we are all still learning........
 
Option one doesn't make any sense to me to be honest, why on earth box rest for 9 months? Perhaps the vet has never heard of hoof boots and pads. I'm not sure why this has to be such a drastic case, correct diet and trimming without crippling the horse would acheive the same thing. Many horses remain footy on stones regardless of the time spent barefoot, especially if they're getting a bit too much of the wrong sort of grass.

Depends on the professionals at your disposal but it might be kinder and easier to go down the shoes and vettec route. I don't understand why the horse needs to be crippled every time its trimmed at all.
 
Yann said:
. I don't understand why the horse needs to be crippled every time its trimmed at all.
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Quite agree - a good trim, even on laminitic horses, should not make them sore - it should help them.

a good barefoot trim should lower the heels gradually,paying attention to the depth of the collateral grooves for guidance, and shorten the toe to ease break over. This will help the pedal bone re-align, and reduce pain. Movement is vita, and using boots to achieve this meas the hoof can be trimmed every 3 weeks wiith ease. However, the laminae need to re-attach, and a low-sugar, low carb diet is essential. Hi-fi, and hi-fi lite both contain sugar. Speedi-beet or equi-beet are far better options, with soaked hay, no grass.

good luck,

Rebecca
 
Speak directly to your farrier rather than the vet- it would seem your vet is just confusing you. Go with what your farrier wants to do, even if that means puting on shoes. If you trust your farrier, remember that they are the professionals and will do the best for your horse. Use the method they are experienced with and you are most likely to get a good recovery that way. No point in staying barefoot if that is not your farriers expertise but equally if the farrier is happy to leave shoes off then do that. There is no black and white answer unfortunately. When my horse had laminitis in 2007, I was very reluctant to put heartbar shoes on her but I trusted my farrier and knew that he would do what was best and she recovered from it.

P.S. Whatever is done should not cause pain or soreness, even if the horse is laminitic. Shoes should only be put on once inflammation in the feet has reduced and it shouldn't cause any discomfort. If what is done to your horse causes it to be crippled and needing medication, I'd be looking for another farrier.
 
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Hi Martini55

The problem that I have is trusting people, I only got the horse at the end of December, I found a barefoot farrier Ian Whatley he did one trim then he could not come for three months and was delayed because he was abroad and stuck because of the dust cloud, I then found another barefoot Jamie Hickman he trimmed the feet once then she went a little bit footy did not last long and 7 weeks later he did another trim and she was very bad, he said that she was a cronic Laminitic ( has not got it now but has had it in the past and I should be careful, restrict grazing and put her on speedi beet & mag ox ( pure easy was another good one ). He said that he should take the heels down even though she was sore as the frogs are not down far enough I asked him not to trim her anymore and I was going to have her feet x-rayed ).

Now I have a new vet joe Ivey in Penzance who did the x-rays and said about the Pedal bone rotation and sunken. he recommended Hi fi Lite with the Mag Ox, he said he will work with anyone a barefoot or a farrier but he said that it would be a quicker process to do the shoeing with the pads and less painful for her. Someone else at the same yard has a similar thing and we were following a similar treatment, the vet knew the farrier that she was using and said he was very good and comes highly recommended ,but he is a farrier not a barefoot person.

I need to start trusting someone and a method to go forward

I do not want to put her on Hi Fi Lite if the Pure- Easy variety is better can someone advise please.

I have some questions for the vet which I will ask him on Monday

Has she got laminitus or Mechanical laminitus ?
What caused the rotation ?
I do not really want radical trimming can we have regular smaller trims
Hi- fi Lite vs Pure Easy ?

I am now having nightmares incase the farrier takes her feet down to far
 
I can only go on my own limited experience of lami.

I have 2 shetlands who have had lami, both are barefoot.
I use a remedial farrier, they have never been sore after a trim.
If you have a farrier who comes to your yard with experience of lami I would consider using him, regular trimming is vital, and if you decide to go down the shoeing route you will need a farrier.

Is your horse on any medication, bute or danilon.
 
My complete guess is that she may have had a laminitic episode at some point but most of what has happened has done so gradually. I bet if you x rayed the average yard any of the horses with thin flat soles would be technically foundered but otherwise sound and relatively comfortable in shoes.

To be honest, given your location, the difficulty you've had sourcing trimmers, and the difficulty in keeping your horse completely comfortable barefoot I'd probably be inclined to go down the shoeing route.

FWIW both the trimmers you used are very experienced, Ian Whatley is a farrier too.
 
Hi

No she is having Speedi Beet with Mag Ox in the evening

Soaked Hay just a small haynet in the evening

out on stripped grazing from about 10am to 4 pm

*********
What I was looking at changing was to give her feed twice a day ( smaller amount ) of HiFi Lite with Mag Ox or Pure Easy with Mag Ox, not sure which is better.

Still with the small soaked haynet and out on stripped grazing from 10 - 4pm

Medication I am not sure what the Vet will prescribe as we only had the results yesterday.
 
If she had an acute attack of laminitis during the time you have owned her then it would have been obvious. My guess is the same as Yann, it has happened little by little over a long period of time. Any time you have noticed she has just not been right and a little bit footy could have been contributing. Of course you have only had the horse a short time so the damage was most likely done before you had her.

Hi-fi lite is probably the lowest sugar/starch feed you could give her and is absolutely fine to feed.

Could you speak to the other person on the yard about the treatment their horse is receiving and how the horse is recovering? Often word of mouth is the best way to find a good farrier and if he is also recommended by the vet then that is good. Even if the barefoot trimmers you have been using are highly experienced and recommended I would be wary of using them- purely because you have had issues getting them out to see your horse. I know obviously the dust cloud thing is something unexpected but I read what you said as there was going to be 3 months between trims anyway? You really need someone you can rely on to come on a very regular basis.
 
If she was mine I'd be getting a good, qualified farrier to treat her, if the vet knows & recommends the one treating another horse on the yard then I'd go with him for now. Show him the x-rays & try to arrange for him & the vet to come up with a plan between them, if they both think shoes & supports are the quickest & kindest route then I'd do that (you can always take shoes off again at a later date).

Management wise if there's the slightest chance she's laminitic I'd want her off the grass completely for now. Footy over stones would be enough for me, I'd rather be safe than sorry. So deep shavings bed, soaked hay & all weighed so you know what she's getting.

HiFi Lite does contain molasses extract, but it's still very low sugar. I can't find figures on the website (I'm sure there used to be!) but you can always ring Dengie & ask for the combined sugar & starch levels.I believe that generally below 10% is considered low & relatively safe for laminitics.
 
It has mollasses extract in it, which I believe means that it makes it taste nice but with some of the goodness taken out? There isn't much in it anyhow. It is around 4% sugar and 0.5% starch, so one of the lowest NSC chaffs you can get. It does also have alfalfa in it but again I think it is unlikely to cause problems. Martini was ridiculously sentitive to sugar and had no problems being fed this. Besides, I'm guessing it's probably just a small amount to be fed for supplements so I doubt it would be fed in quantities to make it an issue anyway.
 
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