Thinking of getting shoes

It's worth remembering when looking at the feet that they're due a trim aren't they? They will look a bit long if that's the case. I didn't see anything major in the flesh and I don't see anything major with the feet in the photos. If there is something going on with his limbs then I'm not sure what difference shoeing is going to make. Those feet don't look majorly out of whack balance wise at all, and that's the only thing I'm aware of that could do it. Any window of opportunity to straighten limb deviations closed when he was a foal, you risk lameness forcing straightness on a wonky limb in an adult horse.

Just a thought, how straight do his feet hang if you pick them up and hold the cannon bone? That might indicate if his leg is actually wonky at all. And as has already been said slightly non matching feet are very common indeed, and a good shoeing job will mask this to some degree.

The boots look a great fit, and the fact they're a devil to put on suggests they're not going to come off :D They do loosen a little, and are also likely to be easier when he's been trimmed. There is a technique to it too, have you watched the vids on the easycare site? They may help if not.

His lack of go under saddle might be hoof related, or it might be something completely different, again the vet might be able to advise or suggest a good bodyworker, although I think you said you had one. Is he just lazy in the school or is there a lack of performance hacking too? I hope you can get to the bottom of it all! :)
 
this worried me?
Bodshi said:
Front feet

RafiForesSideview12Dec10.jpg
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there seems to be a heck of a lot of difference in the angle of the hooves between the two? or is it just the way he is stood? :)
 
Yann said:
His lack of go under saddle might be hoof related, or it might be something completely different, again the vet might be able to advise or suggest a good bodyworker, although I think you said you had one. Is he just lazy in the school or is there a lack of performance hacking too? I hope you can get to the bottom of it all! :)
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with Pickle it was saddle :redface: he disliked the one he had even though it was properly fitted, I tried a different saddle and it was like riding a different horse, I could never get canter out of him unless I was holding a whip (didnt have to use it just hold it, I have weak legs) went out and got the same saddle he had been tried in and didnt have to hold a whip to get canter again? its amazing what can affect them
 
I too would look at tack issues for ridden work ad he is do likely to have changed shape...

As for the feet, exactly what I was expecting to be fair, slightly long in the toe (making White line separation more likely) which fits with the footy issues in summer. I would be interested to see if that changes over winter with change in grass, but it would depend on current diet.

Tots and dots yes feet do look different, but both silvers fore were different and now 10months on only starting to look similar.

Boddhi, see if you can find my ten monts on thread might give you some reassurance. I would be inclined to think school issues are boredom related or tack etc rather than feet - given he is happy tp free school and lunge, he is struggling with something that changes when you put a rider on him - back aggregated by weight, balance issues, tack issues... Etc :)

His feet look fine :) both of mine turn out more the closer they get to being due a trim.
 
Thanks folks, I feel much less worried now, at least it's not keeping me awake at night like it did the first night! Vet isn't coming until Wednesday unfortunately and I need to make a decision about whether to call in the EP or the farrier for his trim. I must do it tomorrow.

Went for our first hack out in over a fortnight today with Rafi wearing his new boots. He bounced along (was very excited to be out anyway) but he certainly wasn't struggling on his feet. He didn't mind the boots at all, but when we had a gallop in a clay field one of them did come off - it stayed attached by the pastern strap so I didn't lose it, and Rafi didn't stop galloping, but then I had to put it back on, didn't have my folding hoof pick with me, so cleaned his foot as best I could with a handy stone and wiped his boot out before fitting it. After that he didn't walk as well, he wasn't lame but was holding his head up stiffly and not striding out, so I think some of the muck or silt in the boot must have been putting pressure on a sensitive bit. Anyway, we didn't have long to go home by that point.

Did make me think though - if he had shoes he might step out that well all the time and I wouldn't have to worry about going in muddy fields so much. So I nearly convinced myself to ring the farrier today. But then I think, is the short term gain worth sacrificing the long term aim? Wish I knew!

ETA - I did read your post PFB and thought the changes were very impressive.

Also, out hacking no he isn't 'lazy', nor is he when we go for our lessons at the RI's house. It's just when we're in the indoor school on the yard - it is quite small and quite deep bark chippings so I wondered whether he struggled with the surface, but the other horses manage fine on it.

He has a freeform treeless saddle and mattes pad with the pressure relief system. I might just try him in my treed GP saddle, if I can find my stirrup leathers, just to see whether there is any difference. Hope not because I much prefer the treeless!
 
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I'm guessing it was pretty heavy going to pull the boot off, and you're lucky he didn't tread on it and rip the gaiter off. If that sort of ride is a common occurence then I would actually think about shoeing, because regularly losing and damaging boots starts to ruin everyone's fun after a while. Been there and done that, and it is an important factor to weigh into the mix.

The fact he goes so much better in boots speaks volumes, and it will be the same shod. I also think you may be fighting an uphill battle if the yard sort his feed, if he's getting mollassed stuff then it won't help with footiness issues, the way he seems to land might indicate he's guarding himself. Tess always moves more correctly shod. If you really do have a super duper farrier then have a think about shoeing him for a bit to see how it goes, but it won't really be for any of the reasons your YO came up with ;)

The school at home sounds like some sort of behavioural thing to be honest, horses are sometimes funny about being schooled in the fields where they graze, and he might be doing the same thing.
 
And he is young to be doing a lot of school work - wonder if he finds it boring sometimes? Hes excited by seeing and smelling new things when out so much more impulsive to ride?
 
popularfurball said:
And he is young to be doing a lot of school work - wonder if he finds it boring sometimes? Hes excited by seeing and smelling new things when out so much more impulsive to ride?
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Thats what i was thinking too. Getting good barefeet is a long process, it does boil down to your commitment to it in the long haul, and in that i mean that it is hard work sometimes building them up and frustrating at times. Abby has been barefoot 20 months and still has a difference like Rafis but that is also due to an old injury and body issues which is being dealt with alongside EP care and they are changing really well.

If you feel shoes are better for your situation at the minute then thats one option. But i would not expect these problems to resolve with shoes and if you did want to go barefoot in the future it would be just as long a process again. I would recommend getting a body worker to look at him and him ridden just to check anything out body wise.

Its a tough one but you need to think whats best for you and your situation and go with your gut feeling. Hope its works out whichever way you choose :wink:
 
Yes, you're quite right, he is very alert when he's out and does seem to love going for hacks with his 'mates'. I don't do a great deal of schooling with him because I find it quite boring myself, so maybe it is just a boredom/behaviour thing, I don't know.

I thought I was prepared for a long haul to get his feet really good, but I don't think I appreciated what would be involved and today I think I've realised why. I took him out on my own in his boots and he was just like he used to be before the EP started coming - ie very keen and enthusiastic and I had hard work to steady his trot. I'd forgotten that he used to be so keen like that. He was barefoot at the time too, he's never been shod.

Is it normal for things to go backwards before they go forward?
 
Flipo's Mum said:
It reminds me of the predicament my sis was in with my nephew. When he was a baby he was pretty big (his dad is 6ft 3in) and the weight caused his head to be slightly flat at the back. The specialists said she could make him wear a foam helmet for a year to help mold the skull while it was soft and my sis didn't know what to do. In the end she did everything else she could but get the helmet because she couldn't bare the thought of him wearing it for that length of time. His head is far from perfect but she's done her best otherwise.

I think we on here feel that your YO may be exercising the very horsey-world-rife practice of passionately believing their opinion is correct and the only way. That may be the case indeed, she might be right but I think you're right to explore all sources of advice - the vet would probably be a good start - I'm interested in this whole 'he now wouldn't pass a vetting' suggestion.
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Sorry, completely off-topic but I had a similar thing with one of my children - he just came out with a slightly odd-shaped head. Actually my GP although agreeing it wasn't 'normal' didn't seem to think there was anything that could be done, so I ended up taking him to an osteopath where he went every few weeks until he was about 2 to have his head massaged and 'remoulded'. The Osteopath used to talk about his 'coils' and tbh it all sounded a load of gobbledegook to me, but guilt made me keep going because if I hadn't tried and he had ended up with a wonky head it would all be my fault! Thankfully his head is now ok, don't think it would pass as perfect but then not many people have truly perfect heads anyway! Whether or not it's because of what the Osteo did or whether he just grew up like that I don't know.

You're right about the YO I think, but she has no malice and honestly believes it is best for the horse. The vet is due tomorrow so I'll let you know what he says.
 
Is it normal for things to go backwards before they go forward?
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I don't think it is, not when we're talking about a young horse with good feet that's never been shod. The trimmer might be a factor, or they might not, diet can make a big difference too. Did anything else about his management change around the same time?
 
Surely everything did... I suspect he maybe had a lot more time out...? The yard you said he came from sounded much more like a stabling yard with the number of horses and nature of the yard - though thats totally presumtious of me :redcarded::giggle:
 
No, you're right PFB - he was kept in at his previous home which was a stud and he was uncut, so when I got him at the beginning of May his routine changed, his diet changed (although he has the same basic mix of nuts and chop they are probably different nuts and chop to what he was getting) and he had just been cut. He had two visits from the farrier before the EP started work in September and he was struggling a bit over stony ground, not lame just walking more carefully, but after the first EP visit she did warn me I wouldn't be able to ride on hard surfaces for 4 weeks because she had trimmed his foot so far back, so I knew we were going backwards at that point. After that she agreed to take things more slowly so I could continue to ride, but it does look as though his feet are hurting him on hard ground if he's better with the boots on. Plus, it's the way he stands that's worrying me, or rather it's what the YO said about the way he stands. Hopefully the vet will be able to clarify things a bit for me about the leg situation.
 
If I read that right then he was already showing signs of footiness before he started with the EP, which does suggest that there might be an underlying problem. In theory, with him not getting a lot of turnout on grass at the moment things should be as good as they're going to get, but they clearly aren't.
I am a bit nonplussed that the EP apparently thinks this is unremarkable, or why their trimming should continually threaten to cripple a never been shod 4 year old arab on a regular basis. I'm further concerned by the fact that they haven't had him exercising in hoof boots right from the off if this was going to be the case, or suggested that you look at his diet, which doesn't sound ideal for barefooting, not if he's struggling for some reason.
 
I suspect there is also an underlying problem... I would hedge my bets on metabolic/diet issues.

I'm sure you were talking about boots from more or less the start, but he was footy from the word go which suggests an underlying problem.

Even though madam had mis shapen feet at the start of trimmers work, trimming has never made her footy though I was warned it could do. It takes a long while for feet to adapt and some just can't tolerate a lot of summer grass- mine being one.

My trimmer hasn't been aggressive but youcan see a distinct difference in 10months
 
From what I've seen normal trimming only makes horses sore if they've got really weak feet in poor shape (straight out of shoes for example) or metabolic issues, or both.
 
As regards to being sore. My friends horse had feet like slippers, they were very odd. But being trimmed by the farrier she used to manage ridden. When she started being trimmed by EP she was ok and as her feet were changing, and i mean from slipper to actual hoof shape, yes she was footy. She managed on the old trim and then went a little worse for one trim. Now she has amazing feet. I will try and post before and afters. She manages to go to places we never rode before. So i do think that a degree of 'going backwards' can be expected where a change is happening. Its like when we have physio, it sometimes goes worse before it goes bettter. Thats my experience anyway. But to me it sounds diet related as well alongside the change of environment and feet developing.
 
Yes I agree that diet could be better - the EP did recommend the Thunderbrook feed which we tried but my problem is that feed is included in the cost of my full livery and it makes it too expensive if I have to pay livery plus my own feed on top.

Anyway, the vet came this morning and confirmed more or less what the YO had said about his legs only in more technical terms. But basically he is 'paddling' with his front feet and his hinds are even worse as his pasterns are 'broken backed' so his fetlocks are dipping down too much when he moves and he runs a real risk of damage to his tendons and navicular. She said his problems could be corrected by a good farrier but that it will take many months.

I am gutted, I really hoped the vet would say there wasn't much to worry about but obviously there is and now I've been completely put off using anyone to do anything with him who hasn't been personally recommended to me by someone I trust. My EP is so passionate about what she does that I know she will be gutted but I feel that my only option now is to go to the farrier, who does have a good reputation.

I still haven't given up my barefoot dream but I'm going to follow the advice of the farrier now and do whatever is necessary to get Rafi's feet and legs back in shape. The ironic thing is his feet, particularly from underneath, look so much better and neater than they did before the EP started.
 
Sorry to hear what the vet said. Shame its sounds like its a conformation issue but atleast you know. You have to do what you feel is best for your little Rafi, nobody would want you to do any different. Shame about the EP experience but like everything there are good and not so good stories. My three are good so I can't complain. Hope you get sorted and if you ever need any of my (limited + sometimes useless) help let me know. Give Rafi a big squeeze from me and abs.
 
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