Trespassers

[Jessey]

Well my wildlife camera caught the trespassers yesterday, 20 minutes before I arrived it was 2 teens, a girl and a boy.

The camera takes a series of 3 pictures when triggered. I have 20 clear pics of them. The girl was in front of the camera then went out of sight (presumably off my land as the camera points onto the land) and the boy went towards the bit I thought was being used for access (unfortunately it was just out of shot) but there was no pics of him leaving again.

The 'courtyard' is the brick stables, that were illegally converted to a house by the owners at one point, then abandoned, burnt out by kids having an illegal rave there, used by squatters/drug users etc. in the past. I put all the rubbish from around the field in there and boarded it up with metal roof sheets. It is very dangerous, the roof could collapse at any moment, I only got the worst of the needles etc. out but am positive there will be more in there, its now full of rubbish, broken glass etc. and that is where the little suckers are trying to get into

Now I'm in a quandary, I have pics of the kids, but that doesn't help me as I don't know who they are and if I put them online on our town facebook page to find out or for parents to see, well that would get me in a world of trouble wouldn't it.

I've been reading up online this morning and as its a civil matter the police won't act and I could be liable if they were to get hurt while trespassing, which there is a good chance they will going in there! and basically other than fencing the only route to go is to send solicitors letters to them or get a court order to prohibit them.

A couple of friends are going to swing by today while I am at work and see if they can't catch them to have words, but other than catching them and scaring them off I can't see I can do much else I'm going to call BHS legal when they open and see if they have any ideas.

 

[MrC]

Well my wildlife camera caught the trespassers yesterday, 20 minutes before I arrived it was 2 teens, a girl and a boy.

The camera takes a series of 3 pictures when triggered. I have 20 clear pics of them. The girl was in front of the camera then went out of sight (presumably off my land as the camera points onto the land) and the boy went towards the bit I thought was being used for access (unfortunately it was just out of shot) but there was no pics of him leaving again.

The 'courtyard' is the brick stables, that were illegally converted to a house by the owners at one point, then abandoned, burnt out by kids having an illegal rave there, used by squatters/drug users etc. in the past. I put all the rubbish from around the field in there and boarded it up with metal roof sheets. It is very dangerous, the roof could collapse at any moment, I only got the worst of the needles etc. out but am positive there will be more in there, its now full of rubbish, broken glass etc. and that is where the little suckers are trying to get into

Now I'm in a quandary, I have pics of the kids, but that doesn't help me as I don't know who they are and if I put them online on our town facebook page to find out or for parents to see, well that would get me in a world of trouble wouldn't it.

I've been reading up online this morning and as its a civil matter the police won't act and I could be liable if they were to get hurt while trespassing, which there is a good chance they will going in there! and basically other than fencing the only route to go is to send solicitors letters to them or get a court order to prohibit them.

A couple of friends are going to swing by today while I am at work and see if they can't catch them to have words, but other than catching them and scaring them off I can't see I can do much else I'm going to call BHS legal when they open and see if they have any ideas.

Blur out the kids faces and put it on the town Facebook showing you have a camera on your property. This way you haven’t broken any laws and the word will spread that there are cameras there and the little visits will peeter off.

TBF putting the kids faces on Facebook shouldn’t get you in bother as they are in public essentially and trespassing. I’ve seen people post pictures and videos of kids trespassing in their gardens and being caught.

 

[Jessey]

I'd love to but am very wary that any pictures of kids other than your own can draw real nastiness out, even if it is innocent. I'm hoping that BHS legal might be able to tell me where I stand on that.

 

[MrC]

Blurring out their faces and just showing the pictures won’t break any laws. They will recognise their own clothes or their parents will and see to it that they stay away when you explain its full of glass and debris

 

[MrA]

If you put signs on the building that say do not enter, dangerous, risk of injury etc then I don't think you would be liable if something happened as they have ignored warnings.

Hope the bhs can give you more helpful advice

 

[Jessey]

If you put signs on the building that say do not enter, dangerous, risk of injury etc then I don't think you would be liable if something happened as they have ignored warnings.

Apparently the owner/tenant is still liable though most judges would take a much more negative view if they ignore warnings.

 

[Jessey]

Not a police matter but the PCSO is going to see if he can identify them and have a quiet word

 

[Trewsers]

Pesky devils. I really hope you can find a solution to deter them.

 

[Prjsmk]

Not a police matter but the PCSO is going to see if he can identify them and have a quiet word

Hopefully this helps

 

[newforest]

You can obtain a court order yes.

Do you think they are likely to cause criminal damage, break in, vandalism, or take drugs?
If yes it's a police matter. If they are trying to get into somewhere, they are 'breaking and entering' causing 'criminal damage'

Trespassing is civil, however what the person or people do whilst doing it might be criminal.

 

[Jessey]

You can obtain a court order yes.

Do you think they are likely to cause criminal damage, break in, vandalism, or take drugs?
If yes it's a police matter. If they are trying to get into somewhere, they are 'breaking and entering' causing 'criminal damage'

Trespassing is civil, however what the person or people do whilst doing it might be criminal.

Breaking and entering applies to a locked building predominantly, as the buildings they are entering are derelict its a bit grey. Criminal damage is equally grey for the building, however cutting fences would be as they are being used to secure property (horses). I had a long chat with the BHS legal office, its all very circumstantial. If they harass the horses and cause 'undue suffering' that would be a police matter but a difficult one to prove unless a horse is directly injured. The long and the short the paralegal said if they can't be dissuaded I should consider if I am will to take the risk of being liable and might consider moving the horses elsewhere, though I have taken all the 'reasonable steps' they would suggest already.

On the up, no sign of the kids since Monday, perhaps they got the idea

 

[KP nut]

The world has gone stark raving mad if you are expected to move your own horses from your own land because you might be held responsible if trespassing kids get hurt while trespassing.

No advice but I'm seething on your behalf!

 

[Jessey]

The world has gone stark raving mad if you are expected to move your own horses from your own land because you might be held responsible if trespassing kids get hurt while trespassing.

No advice but I'm seething on your behalf!

I know right, it is madness! you would think if they are trespassing they are doing so at their own risk, but the para told me there is nothing you can do that removes liability from a land owner or occupier, it always exists.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Do you actually use this building? If not, can you get it in writing from your landowner that you do not use this building and have no responsibility for maintaining it. If you could exclude that part from the bit that you rent, then you may not be liable if the kids got in there?

 

[Jessey]

Do you actually use this building? If not, can you get it in writing from your landowner that you do not use this building and have no responsibility for maintaining it. If you could exclude that part from the bit that you rent, then you may not be liable if the kids got in there?

No I don't use it, it was burnt out years ago and is full of rubbish. I will have to double check my tenancy agreement and specifically how it is worded, that's a good point.

 

[Kite_Rider]

The world has gone stark raving mad if you are expected to move your own horses from your own land because you might be held responsible if trespassing kids get hurt while trespassing.

No advice but I'm seething on your behalf!

I'll get right behind you in the queue .... bonkers isn't it.

 

[Jessey]

Doing a little jig this morning, our PCSO managed to track down the kids I had pics of in my field, and has had words with them, so hopefully that's enough to put the wind up them (and they tell their mates there was pictures and the police came knocking) and they stay away of course it could go the other way and I end up with more trouble than before in retaliation ...lets hope not.

 

[newforest]

The world has gone stark raving mad if you are expected to move your own horses from your own land because you might be held responsible if trespassing kids get hurt while trespassing.

No advice but I'm seething on your behalf!

If someone climbs over your garden gate and trips over something, they used to be able to sue you!
Totally wrong agreed.

 

[chunky monkey]

We had kids causing hassle to our empty property. I told them where to go politely, they came back that evening smashing windows. We repaired them, 2 days later they did some other windows in the property. We repaired them. A couple of days later they did another one. We reported to the police. Who paid us a visit, we told them that there were teenagers sitting regularly in there cars in the pull one along our road. When you walked past there was the most awful smell. We were told they were probably on cannabis. They said they would do some spot check in the evening in there unmarked. The next day they did. I just happened to be walking along the road to the property so the police stopped to speak to me. I told them there was the usual bunch of kids in the car up the road so they went and had words. They were caught red handed in possession. Police also had a word about the broken windows in our property. The kids said it wasn't them of course. But I think the word went round that the police were doing spot checks as weve had no further trouble.

 

[Jessey]

That's what I'm hoping will happen @chunky monkey if word gets around I've caught them on camera and involved the police hopefully they will leave be, the police have warned me they'll have no further involvement regarding trespassing so hopefully it does the trick.