ulcers

[parsharainbow]

Does anybody know anything about these at all

My gelding had impaction colic for 4 days and finally came through it yesterday and now its looking like he has an ulcer to top it off, I'm not allowed to give him hay or hard feed but he can have grass, he's been put on medication and can have a small feed of 'slop' on Friday night and gradually build it up.

Just wondered if anyone had any experiences of ulcers, what causes them and whether this could have caused the colic, or the colic cause the ulcer

 

[Jessey]

Ulsers are thought to be far more common than many of us would realise, its only new reasearch over the last few years that is proving this.

Currenty they believe that horses kept on a lower fibre diet are more likely to get ulsers, because of the way a horses gut works excessive hard feed and lack of forage seem to cause many of the problems, They appear to be seen alot in race horses who get fed huge ammounts of hard feed with less hay/grass.

The horses gut is unlike ours in that it produces digestive acid all the time (ours only does when we chew) so hard feeds that are eaten relatively quickly only keep the gut active for a short time, where hay (when horses have free access) passes through the gut more slowly and keeps it active all the time. The problems occur when the gut has periods where there is little/no food passing through and the acid starts to digest the gut wall (as there is no food to work on) and causes ulsers.

Therefore, feeding a high fibre diet is essential, trying to avoid hard feed (starchy feeds) where possible and allowing free access to some kind of forage at all times will help reduce this problem and/or prevent it. You can also feed supplements to help with the acid problems, natural mint (either dried or planted round your horses field) can help to keep things settled and giving probiotics can also help the gut function as well as possible.

I think they have also linked ulsers to anxiety aswell.

The ulscer itself can't cause an impaction, but given he has an ulscer it would indicate that his gut balance and perhaps diet are not optimum, the discomfort from the ulscer could however have impacted on his normal eating habits - so he may not have eaten as much hay (or something) as he should which then contributed to an impaction (fibre feeds like hay help to keep the gut and its contents moving)

Glad he is feeling a bit better now though, and hope you can get a good nights sleep now, you must have been tearing your hair out - 4 days of colic

 

[poohsmate]

ditto ulcers being very common, i read an arcticle somewhere about how some horses will develop ulcers during long trips in lorries due to stress it was research done at a university in the us i think, will try to find it.
a friends horse became very grumpy and unpredictable bucking etc' we sorted his saddle out and back teeth et'
then her vet suggested scoping him and he had some quite large ulcers, after a course of some horrendously expensive treatment £600 for a months supply.. he became a different horse!!!! in fact it was amazing the change in him.
not sure how she manages him now but he has had no reacurrence that i know of.

 

[LMS]

I have notes from the Maclure study that was performed in North America (maybe the one you mention Jessey?). It studied

Would you like me to forward them to you? It's in Word. (To lengthy to post here I think even though it's all in point form, unless the mods ok it)

Stress & feeding was a huge factor.


Here are a few snipits from it:

Equine Gastric Ulcer Syndrome

In nature horses eat grass all day with intermitted exercise.

Studies show the prevalence & impact of ulcers in:
50 – 97% performance horses
25 – 57% foals

Ulcers affect condition & performance
Is potentially fatal in foals
Over 90% if clinically ill

Maclure et al criteria of participant:
- At least 2yrs
- Continuous training
- To be taken away from farm

In 30 days:
- 23 farms
- 50 horses (11 breeds)
- 10 days away from farm
- Confined
- Various disciplines & gender
- Most got grain
- All on hay
- Prior to scope: assess disposition

Noted during the 30 days:
Over 50% had ulcers:
- 56% squamous #1 grade
- 2% glandular
- 42% none
Correlated risk: Disposition
- Nervous horses: 100% had ulcers
- Low normal RBC count
- Low normal haemoglobin concentration

Conclusion:
High prevalence of ulcers in:
- Performance horse
- Nervous horse
- Trailering

Prevalence & impact:
- Most with poor/declining health
- Others in poor health
- Colic

Poor performance is a consistent finding. The caregiver’s main complaint: resistant/difficult to train

More roughage intake => less acidity (dilutes acid, high protein neutralized)
Grain processed feeds increase the secretion of serum gastrin
Increased gastrin => increase in HCI secretion

Acid pump cellular physiology
Acid pumps are stimulated by:
- histamine
- Acelylcholine
- Gastrin
- Protaglendins

Aggressive factors:
- Hydrochloric acid
- Pepsin

Protective factors:
- Grass & hay
- Saliva
- Mucus
- Blood flow
- Cell membrane
- High fibre
- Continuous feed

 

[parsharainbow]

Thanks I'm wondering how much of it is down to a routine change, he was racehorse and was kept in all winter on a diet on very little forage and huge buckets of hard feed, I kept this routine up for the last 6 years and stabled him through the winter but with a continuous supply of hay plus some hard feed, this year however (and stupidly) I felt as it was mild he might be better off out during the day and in at night so although he had hay through the night he didn't during the day and I was making up the difference with hard feed, I'm wondering if the change of routine just didn't help him/caused it. I just thought he'd be better with more turnout if he could get it I have to add he's not a winter horse and doesn't particularly like being out (he's a bit institutionalised by his racing days) and stands around by the gate waiting to come back in, he refuses to eat hay in the field just begs to come back in, I thought he'd eventually get used to it
He wont be out next winter as far as I can see, but surely lack of turnout can cause problems too can't it

He's on some gaviscon type stuff at the moment and then they'll put him on Cemetadine to treat the ulcer, should take about 12 weeks and cost £1,500 oh well as long as he's ok at the end of it

 

[Jessey]

It sounds like the change could have contributed to the problem, but don't feel bad there was no way you could have known that would happen Keeping him in is probably better for him if he just stresses and won't eat when he is put out, and just make sure he has pleanty of hay and try and make his hard feeds high fibre too
He probably would learn to enjoy being out more eventually, but to get there might be a long road, perhaps re-assesing his field buddies and the field conditions might make him happier about being out there

 

[parsharainbow]

Glad he is feeling a bit better now though, and hope you can get a good nights sleep now, you must have been tearing your hair out - 4 days of colic

thanks It was awful, I had no sleep and he was in a terrible state, on top of that it turned out he was allergic to painkiller/anti inflamatory drugs so he went through most of it with no pain relief and had to have his passport written up stating that he wasn't to be treated with non-steroidals again Poor boy.

He's still not allowed any hard feed or hay only grass until Friday, thankfully we've got a couple of rested paddocks with quite a bit of grass for him.

Any help/advice is massively appreciated

 

[parsharainbow]

Keeping him in is probably better for him if he just stresses and won't eat when he is put out, and just make sure he has pleanty of hay and try and make his hard feeds high fibre too

I'll definately be doing that next year , I'm not going through this again

He probably would learn to enjoy being out more eventually, but to get there might be a long road, perhaps re-assesing his field buddies and the field conditions might make him happier about being out there

I doubt he'll ever enjoy going out in winter He's had the same field buddies for 6 years (my other 3) and they get on famously, I've been trying to get him out for years and he's never got any better at 'enjoying' it, summer however is a different story, he loves being out in the Sun, I suppose its like us, some of us (including me) loathe winter too

Would lack of turnout cause problems too though He used to get an hour a day and seemed fine on it but I started worrying that it wasn't 'natural' hence the turnout this year as it was mild.

 

[becs]

Echo good info above.

But just to say... don't lose heart - the drugs really _can_ help make a difference; they heal by reducing the gastric acid. It's not your fault that his past contributed - at least you've found it & acted upon it.

Re turnout routines; I'd tweak it seasonally by what stresses him less, just ensuring ad lib forage as you mention (obviously when he's back to normal). Maybe you could gradually increase his time out or give access to a shelter? Our aged NF "puts himself to bed" every day at teatime.

 

[Jessey]

Would lack of turnout cause problems too though He used to get an hour a day and seemed fine on it but I started worrying that it wasn't 'natural' hence the turnout this year as it was mild.

I think you need to look at the lesser of two evils here, he can be out; stressed, not eating (both worriesome factors for ulscers) or he can be in; happy and eating pleanty of forage (both important in managing ulsers) If he would consent to going out for an hour or so at either end of the day then that might be a good compromise.

We have one horse at our yard (TB but not race bred) who will go out for 2 hours, year round no matter what the weather is or what else is going on after 2 hours he will start pacing up and down the fence and get himself in a right old tiz. So he just gets 2 hours out and lots of hay in the stable the rest of the time and exercised regularly and he is happy and content and much better behaved that when he is forced to stay out and is fit as a fiddle

 

[parsharainbow]

Our aged NF "puts himself to bed" every day at teatime.

Awww bless

There is a field shelter in our field but he'd rather stand by the gate or under the tree next to the gate what I'm doing at the moment is leaving the paddock gate open so he can take himself back to his stable at the moment which seems to be working - great minds eh?? Unfortunately I can't do it with the field when he has to go back in there as all the others will be making their escape too!! Hopefully though by the time he's out of the paddock spring will well and truly be on its way

 

[parsharainbow]

I think you need to look at the lesser of two evils here, he can be out; stressed, not eating (both worriesome factors for ulscers) or he can be in; happy and eating pleanty of forage (both important in managing ulsers) If he would consent to going out for an hour or so at either end of the day then that might be a good compromise.

yeah you're right an hour twice a day would be good and he gets to stay in a eat his hay like he wants - much easier

Thanks