why shoe?

Shandy I thought you had a better understanding of what was involved than that? Since when was pain involved? Horses having their shoes pulled should ALWAYS be kept as comfortable as possible. It makes me sad when I read that people have decided barefooting is a good idea (fair enough) and then just go ahead and get their farriers to pull the shoes and then hope for the best and let the horse hobble around for a few months (not really fair enough) before deciding their horse 'can't manage' :(

Your horse clearly does have a problem for whatever reason, it isn't normal for any horse to be 'crippled' without hind shoes. We've had horses of all shapes and sizes come to our yard and have their hind shoes pulled, as it's the policy. Not one of them has been 'crippled', even my hopeless Tb was fine.
 
I have already explained that many professionals have already confirmed it is her foot conformation (which is the same flat soled type she came with to me as a wild yearling) that causes the problem.

I have worked out cost wise for the amount of work we do and what we do including competitions we would be unwise to boot, therefore if she is not comfortable without boots and there is a long transition period (which I was told by a barefoot trimmer there would be with her) then it is not a viable option for us.

WW was suggesting any horse including mine could be barefoot, but due to our circumstances and her health concerns it is not suitable for her

With re to Kira if she needs shoes then she will get some atm she is fine without but because I want to compete at high levels with her as far as I know and I may be wrong there may be issue with her being booted for these events (as I say could be wrong as have not overly investigated it yet as only had her a short time)
 
Fair enough :) As far as flat soled horses go, my understanding is that you can only diagnose that for sure via x-rays, most flat soles are caused by a lack of structure in the soft tissues rather than the shape of the pedal bone.
 
I have already explained that many professionals have already confirmed it is her foot conformation (which is the same flat soled type she came with to me as a wild yearling) that causes the problem.
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Do you actually know that she has a flat pedal bone? The sole should follow the curve of the pedal bone so for flat feet to be conformational rather than something going wrong it would mean the bottom of the pedal bone should be flat, a lot of professionals do describe flat soles as conformation in situations where it isn't. Being that way as a yearling doesn't confirm its conformation, I bought a yearling last year that had totally flat soles and was crippled and it wasn't too difficult to get her sound and get some concavity.

Reason I'm asking is that you mentioned she had a mild bout of lami from being out of work, if she's prone to laminitis then there could be a link with the flat soles. Very mild bouts of lami or LGL can be hidden by shoes so no obvious soreness when shod but could still explain the flat feet. If she needs shoes for the work she's doing and the feet aren't getting worse then I wouldn't suggest that she'd be better off without shoes (especially if you can't use boots, just taking shoes off cr*p feet and carrying on as before totally bare doesn't work) but if diet is having a big influence on the feet and causing the flat soles then low sugar diet etc can help cr*p shod feet as well as barefoot ones.
 
She is already on a low sugar diet because of her lami (hay, chaff unmollassed and vit supplement), she has been a sufferer on and off for many years the first bout was concussive when she was young and jumped out of the paddock onto a tarmac road. I will have to check with my ex re her pedal bone etc as he was the one there with the vet when it was diagnosed (I unfortunatly was earning the pennies to pay the vet :p)

I have to admit that I am not convinced with either route in all honesty, Bags is fine in shoes but as you say there are disadvantages such as concussion etc with barefoot, in the interim there is a lot of discomfort, time off work (I am assuming here with boots it may not be?) breaking up of the feet and a lot of extra concern over the trails you ride etc. The biggest downside for me is the inability to compete in boots, otherwise we would have done as Yann had said and used boots on her instead, longterm barefoot is a bit cheaper I imagine, but a lot of worry when you first head down that route?
 
Thank you Clava, Melanie and Yann

I have talked to my Ex apparently they didn't even bother to do anything except trot her up, my ex in his infinite farrier wisdom and the vet decided that was sufficient to diagnose the poor conformation that I mentioned above.

The link Clava is very interesting thank you

Can anyone give a rough guide to pricing for a trimmer to do your trim and also how often does your trimmer visit? Is it worth paying for a trimmer to come out and assess Bramble as to if she can viably go barefoot, as it appears that you can still compete barefoot or in boots for the majority of events I hope to do (which I didn't realise until read your link)
 
Can anyone give a rough guide to pricing for a trimmer to do your trim and also how often does your trimmer visit? Is it worth paying for a trimmer to come out and assess Bramble as to if she can viably go barefoot
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The current rate seems to be about £40-50, and unfortunately in many cases it is worth paying the extra as against a bog standard farrier trim. It might be worth getting someone out for an opinion, although how much they can tell is sometimes going to be limited by the shoe, but they should be able to tell you in general terms where her feet are currently at.

In terms of whether to try it or not I would say that you need to be very clear in your own mind a) what the objective is and b) whether it is worth the additional effort and possible expense to you and your horse, as she's clearly not going to be straightforward. You should only go ahead if there is a clear benefit to her and you in doing so, the rider / driver does come into it too. Some horses don't or can't improve that much because there's a limit to how much you can do to help in many cases, in which case shoes might be the better option anyway.
 
Having read the site and listened to a few others (for a change ;):eek:) I have started to wonder if these instances would make sense

Bramble (one with low soles) has also started to plait her hind legs where she had straight conformation before and another farrier suggested my current one left them high on one side each which could be causing stress on her legs thus causing her lameness, he's a friend but is based too far out to regularly shoe her.

Kira was fine unshod when she came to me, she's hardly done any work but has been trimmed once (frog and sole trimmed a little) and now she is very footy over stones

I am quite happy to pay what I do for shoes should that be a help as this ongoing lameness in my 6yr old is concerning to say the least, the vet wont openly state farrier error but cannot come up with any cause of the lameness and wont do x-rays as she is only lame after 6weeks of being shod, without shoes turned away she is reasonable if not worked, it's only when we get a lami attack because of no work we have an issue, I wouldn't mind booting her to overcome this if it is for her benefit longterm.
 
It's quite easy to tell if the feet are being properly balanced by sighting down the back of them, if you flex the hoof up and down in your hand then the plane of the foot (like looking across the top of a wine glass) should be perpendicular to this, and the heels should both be the same length. I think plaiting can be made worse if the inside heels are being left higher than the outside.

If you can find boots that work (not always quite as easy behind due to twisting) then it might be a good solution short or medium term, you can put pads in to further reduce concussion, and the boots will grip well on the road, certainly better than metal shoes do. The plus is that doing this will also gently help her feet toughen rather than simply staying as they are.

Depends how much and what sole was trimmed with your other horse - I never ever trim sole, but I will scrape off any loose stuff that's ready to come. The culprit might be all the wet grass they're eating at the moment.
 
shandy84 said:
They are on a starvation paddock do you think the grass could still be making them footy?
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the problem with starvation paddocks is they can be very sugary - if its quite bare i would have though that was ok(?)... if its just short grass that is new young grass and therefore more nutritious.
 
barefoot

I have owned my 16-1 anglo-arab mare for 10yrs now, I had her shoes taken off six years ago because her hoof was spliting and cracking she was'nt even going a whole month without needing them done. Since going barefoot her feet are perfect, I ride on the roads, in the school and fields and she goes eight weeks between trims. I dont have to feed her any special feeds, vitamins or paint her hoove's a number of times a day. From personal experience it was the best thing i could of done for my mare.......
 
I have a 14yo 17hh hunter who is shod but when I bought my unbroken 3yo Haflinger I decided to not shoe her unless she told me through lameness,discomfort etc that she needed it. With the aid of Boa hoof boots for very dry stony conditions in summer (havent been needed much this year!), 2 years on she is still unshod. She only has farrier trim every 6-8 weeks to reshape (£20) and her hoof looks like the pics in the Equine podiatrists websites examples of good hooves. She gets no lotions, potions or singing, and we do (barefoot not in hoof boots) 10 mile hacks up mountains, cross streams, roads, woods etc etc (we are in the Cairngorms).

I think most ponies (but not all) and some horses(but not all) could cope well with being barefoot if they were never shod at all. Esp if hoof boots part of the equation.

Where the complexity comes in very often is trying to take a shod horse to be barefoot, it sometimes takes a long time, a lot of skilled help and in some cases just doesnt work out. But thats OK too in my book.

I may move the big boy to barefoot but would think carefully as he has always been very sound with shoes and had very good feet in them.

I do believe that barefoot is preferable for the health of the horse IF it works for them, but that 'IF' is an important qualification. Im delighted it has worked with my girlie though. She is doing her first endurance ride in October so I dont have to worry about her throwing a shoe, just whether to put hoof boots on or not!
 
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