The stupid hunt ....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest 2
  • Start date Start date
One of Great Britains wild animals which are as bright as a robins chest and part of the wolf family!

I am securely balanced on the fence about hunting with dogs BUT I would like to point out that the above statement is true - especially with the addendum 'and which has no natural predator '.

ie One of Great Britains wild animals which is part of the wolf family and which has no natural predator.

How are they to be controlled? Control is certainly necessary when a carnivorous animal which has no natural predator is allowed to breed freely.

Poison, shooting, traps, snares? - or do we leave it to Mother Nature to do it her way, with mange, distemper, parvo and starvation? Perhaps we ought to consider - at least in the suburbs and cities - live trap, and spay/castrate and release, as is done with feral cats ...

I don't notice any antis protesting about the wholesale slaughter of RATS in a myriad of ways - a very intelligent animal with a highly-developed social structure - why the species-ism?
 
Last edited:
I think that's a rather astonishing statement.

Not sure why, look at history, the crusades. Look at any violent incident be it a bomb or a simple fight in the pub. I am sure they all stem from a difference in opinion where one person decides to try and impose his/her opinion on others.
 
I am securely balanced on the fence about hunting with dogs BUT I would like to point out that the above statement is true - especially with the addendum 'and which has no natural predator '.

ie One of Great Britains wild animals which is part of the wolf family and which has no natural predator.

How are they to be controlled? Control is certainly necessary when a carnivorous animal which has no natural predator is allowed to breed freely.

Poison, shooting, traps, snares? - or do we leave it to Mother Nature to do it her way, with mange, distemper, parvo and starvation? Perhaps we ought to consider - at least in the suburbs and cities - live trap, and spay/castrate and release, as is done with feral cats ...

I don't notice any antis protesting about the wholesale slaughter of RATS in a myriad of ways - a very intelligent animal with a highly-developed social structure - why the species-ism?

I think mother nature knows best, i dont agree with any slaughter of any species, so im not suffering from species-ism. Iam on the side of the fish,crustaceans[sp] snails,ants and poor poor spiders who people squash on the living room ceilings!!!!
 
Not sure why, look at history, the crusades. Look at any violent incident be it a bomb or a simple fight in the pub. I am sure they all stem from a difference in opinion where one person decides to try and impose his/her opinion on others.

Disagreeing with something and feeling the need to do something about it doesn't automatically make you violent, or a terrorist. That's the implication I found surprising.

How are they to be controlled? Control is certainly necessary when a carnivorous animal which has no natural predator is allowed to breed freely.

I think you'll find this has already been discussed about 27 pages back, even many of the pro hunters had to concede that hunting has very little to do with pest control.
 
i think what we[people who dont approve of hunting] are trying to get to the bottom of is why people who go hunting do it?

There have been reasons why but those reasons still im my mind dont comprehend an animal being killed for being himself, a fox.

One of Great Britains wild animals which are as bright as a robins chest and part of the wolf family!

Because it's jolly good fun I would imagine, I never had the chance to go pre-ban :( but I will one day when I have my own hoss again. I would be going because I would enjoy the galloping across country and the traditions and everything. However, I am not squeamish and would not look away if the final killing happened to occur in front of me. I would not be going only to see that but it is part and parcel of hunting and therefore I would not hide away.

Well, I would imagine that is the reason why you don't hunt....

Why are any animals killed for being themselves? For a whole myriad of reasons, some condonable (pest control) some not, (beating your cat at home because you have anger management issues).

Flowery language will never convince me that's for sure! :p
 
Disagreeing with something and feeling the need to do something about it doesn't automatically make you violent, or a terrorist. That's the implication I found surprising.

so hunt sabatuers are all misunderstood pacifists then? and I not argueing for or against hunting
 
I think you'll find this has already been discussed about 27 pages back, even many of the pro hunters had to concede that hunting has very little to do with pest control.

I don't think I ever claimed that hunting had anything to do with pest control - and I am not arguing one way or the other about that matter - but it is a simple fact that the largest native, wild, carnivorous mammal in Britain has no natural predators still in existence, and little in the way of competition for food.

So logic dictates that either it will breed to the point where over-population takes its ugly toll - as is seen too often in and around cities - or it will at some point need to be controlled by other means.

What other means are preferred in general, especially for town and city foxes? I'm also interested in views on the control of rats in both cities and countryside.
 
EXCUSE ME......BUT SURELY THIS THREAD HAS GONE WAY OFF COURSE...
I don't think the original post was anything to do with pro or anti hunt veiws...just that hunts can be very inconsiderate to other horse owners, and having had horses jump out of fields myself I can sympathise fully. I think alot of you need to get off your bandwagons and change the record....pros and antis..:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
i think what we[people who dont approve of hunting] are trying to get to the bottom of is why people who go hunting do it?

There have been reasons why but those reasons still im my mind dont comprehend an animal being killed for being himself, a fox.

One of Great Britains wild animals which are as bright as a robins chest and part of the wolf family!


Aren't you getting "off-message" here? The foxes are going to die/must die regardless of whether they're hunted by hounds. In fact, the fox population may drop to lower levels than before the ban because, as some have pointed out, hunts actually wanted high numbers of foxes.

The point the antis have raised over and over is that they don't like the CHASE and they don't like the method of the kill.

As for why people enjoy hunting, it's not because of the killing of the fox, anymore than people enjoy fishing because they enjoy the killing of the fish. But you can't fish by just throwing a line with no hook and bait in the water and you can't hunt without having something to chase. We're learning tho that a laid scent is actually a pretty satisfying substitute.
 
Might as well add my thoughts - everyone else has;)

I have thought about the moral rights and wrongs of hunting a lot and am still not sure if I have come to a firm descision on where I stand.

The way I see it is this: The world is not black and white,there are not simply rights and wrongs; there are a thousand shades of grey inbetween and a hundred different ways to view a subject, in this case Fox Hunting.

In my opinion I would much rather follow a hunt than eat an intensivly farmed chicken. The fox that is "ripped to shreds" has had a much better life than the hen that hasn't the strength to stand, and as for the "ripped to shreds" bit, is there ever a pleasant way to die? I would rather see an animal die quickly than get an off shot and spend days dragging its self around and suffering from infection.

My Nan lives in a fairly built up area and regularly puts out medication for the foxes as they carry mange, there are so many foxes they have created a marked track through her garden and there is no way to control them. Foxes are not nice cuddly creatures, they are fast and viscious.

I suppose its how far you take the argument for example would those who abide hunting get pest control in if they had an infestation of rats? Would those who are vegetarians consider stopping eating mik and cheese because of the young male dairy calves who are slaughtered or transported around europe to become veal? Would those who eat soya stop doing so because of the large amounts of deforestation and destroying of habitats of many species of animal?

You could go on and on but its impossible to suvive with out making some kind of physical impact on the planet, luckily we are top of the food chain:p
 
I am just gonna say i am against hunting because of my own beliefs etc and would like to not be pounced upon, for stating it :D
 
How are they to be controlled? Control is certainly necessary when a carnivorous animal which has no natural predator is allowed to breed freely.
Apex predators, who themselves have no natural predators, do not need human intervention to control their populations. They managed well enough by themselves before we appeared on the scene.

Some predator species, like fox and wolf, have their population levels limited mainly by their territorial behaviour. In other words, each animal or group of animals establishes a territory, an area of land, from which other animals of the same species are excluded. The food resource in that area is thus monopolized. So even when there is a surplus of food, it is the availability of suitable habitat which limits the numbers. Not all territories are exactly the same size, and they can change over time e.g. if an animal dies or is killed. That explains why killing a fox may in some cases lead to more foxes occupying an area of land locally - the territory can be split in two, allowing twice the number to live in the same area.

Other apex predator species, like polar bears, are not territorial, and their numbers are regulated by availability of prey animals - seals in the case of polar bears. They too do not need humans to control their numbers.

Of course, if humans decide there are too many of a species, e.g. because the economic impact is considered to be too great or tigers are eating too many villagers, then more may be killed than would naturally die. This may reduce numbers, but sometimes it has a counterproductive effect - as my uncle, an expert on pest control back in the Ministry days, discovered when he was sent over to troubleshoot a big cat problem in an African country (can't remember which, I think it may have been Tanzania). It turned out that shooting these apex predators was splitting otherwise stable territories, leading to population growth over several years and a worsening problem!

Anyway, the point is that it is not always necessary to control carnivores with no natural predators.

Poison, shooting, traps, snares? - or do we leave it to Mother Nature to do it her way, with mange, distemper, parvo and starvation? Perhaps we ought to consider - at least in the suburbs and cities - live trap, and spay/castrate and release, as is done with feral cats ...
That may be an option, if everyone agrees there is a problem. In some cities, such as Bristol, numbers have already declined due to sarcoptic mange, while in other, like Glasgow (where I live), numbers have increased in recent years.

I don't notice any antis protesting about the wholesale slaughter of RATS in a myriad of ways - a very intelligent animal with a highly-developed social structure - why the species-ism?
Indeed, and many people would no doubt be quite upset if they realized the suffering that we cause to rats in our attempts to get rid of them. The fact is rat killing is not a highly visible activity, so it doesn't impinge on the public's psyche to any extent. Out of sight, out of mind. I think if horses and pack of hounds were involved in a ritualized chase and slaughter of rats, and if people got the idea this was being done for sport or fun, there would be more in the way of protest (though probably less than over fox hunting, because foxes are 'cuter' than rats and don't invade people's houses).
 
We won't pounce on you, but that's never been the issue, has it? No one went around trying to pass a law to force everyone in England go fox hunting.

i never said that they did nor did i say it the issue...
But this forum can sometimes get out of hand and if some1 decides to not go with an argument, and have their own opinion, it has been known for them to be picked on for it.
 
newrider.com