The stupid hunt ....

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Francis Burton said:
As I have stated before, I have no problem with individual foxes causing disproportionate economic damage being shot.

Come to think of it, how many smallholders are put out of business by foxes every year? Or is this more of a hypothetical problem?
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Ill just stick to personal experience here I think for now......

One example:
My mother had a small business selling eggs on our farm that was wiped out by a fox. The little red bugger incidentally left every single feathered carcass behind in the purpose built coupe.

I could add more but I don't wish to do a "poor me".
 
It used to be that foxes were preserved, at least at certain times of the year so that there would be foxes there for the hunt during the season.
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I hope it wasn't one of those that did the damage.
 
We lost a fair bit of livestock in the past to loose dogs, nobody objects to me starting a tradition of hunting terriers do they? Or labradors? Only they are a pest!

It's ok though because the healthy ones will get away and it's better than shooting them when they stray on my land right?

And yes I know I made this point a while back but I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how it's different?

If a fox is causing us bother we go out and shoot it, problem solved. I don't see how a hunt randomly killing foxes it happens across will help my issue much!
 
I hunt because I enjoy it, its fun, its better for the fox population than driving round the countryside and taking pop-shots at anything fox shaped that we see in the lamp (which is also fun but not quite as selective as hunting I feel), my horse enjoys it (she doesn't always get to come as I often follow a fell pack), it pays the hunt servants wages, it keeps the hounds in food (which wouldn't have needed to be the case but for the laws this goverment keep bringing in about disposal of deadstock).

Sorry if this upsets people, pro or antis, but to be honest what ever people say about reports into this or that I am not going to change what I do and I am certainly not going to feel guilty about it.

(I am really trying to stop replying on this thread but I think i'm addicted, do you think patches or gum might help?!)

ETA- Sorry, I feel that I need to add a disclaimer to this to say that these are definately only my views and do not represent the views of any other pro-hunt people (unless they choose to say so). Other hunting opinions are available.
 
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I too keep poultry, although not only for eggs.

Some of mine are extremely rare and part of a conservation program being undertaken by myself and three other individuals.

My area is awash with foxes since the former sporting estate was sold and stripped of its assets.

The thing about foxes is, as fast as one kills them they are replaced by more.

I've tried to live with my resident foxes over the years I've been here, that was up until about three years ago when I had a vixen which tore her way into one of my very well made pens and killed a hen and twenty two chicks.

I was of a mind to wear it and halk it up to experience but unfortunately she returned day after day and could be seen sitting about twenty yards from the house most mornings, just waiting for a chance to do more damage.

A few weeks later she appeared one morning with three cubs which she proceeded to introduce to my set up.

Again I tried to ignore her and she seemed to disappear for a couple of months.

Lulled into a false sense of security, I let a hen with ten chicks of three weeks old out for a scratch around at 2pm one summer day.

Half an hour later the chicks came round the corner of the garden wall, in silence which is a sure sign they've had a fright, minus the hen.

Upon investigation I found a few feathers a few yards away from the garden gate and was left with ten chicks to rear without a hen.

Next morning two half-grown cubs were hanging about and looking expectantly at the pens.

I dealt with them all within 24 hours, and I've made it my business to wage war on the fox population ever since.

Some people may say they are only hens and it doesn't matter if they are killed, and I should take better care of them, but I refuse to keep my hens in twenty four hours a day to keep them safe from vermin, so I choose to kill the vermin to keep my stock safe.

An eye for an eye, and all that.

I think I can understand why some people would be against the hunting of foxes with hounds, but I can't understand why some people would entirely detest me for protecting my interests, whilst assuming that I am negligent in looking after my stock sufficiently to prevent a wild animal from killing them.

After all, I am at the top of the food chain in this country. ;):D
 
Still reading and finding some interseting points, as others have said people won't agree but that is human nature. However I think the occasional references to town/country dwellers (mostly derogatory (spelling) comments about antis all being townies and not having a clue) and class are not really relevent to this argument so far many antis on this site have said they are from country stock not towns and cities and why even mention class. If you have to deal with an animal that is a pest then do so quickly with minimum pain and suffering, to chase a fox for hours is never going to be stress free, painless or enjoyable for the fox, and if you want to hunt foxes then at least see it to the end and be there for the point of the hunt which is the capture and death of the fox.
 
Hillbilly said:
I think I can understand why some people would be against the hunting of foxes with hounds, but I can't understand why some people would entirely detest me for protecting my interests, whilst assuming that I am negligent in looking after my stock sufficiently to prevent a wild animal from killing them.

After all, I am at the top of the food chain in this country. ;):D
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You are protecting your poultry from the fox - I see no issue with this and you have every right to do so so. From what I have learned of the fox, he is a sly and persistant pursuer of his next meal and it is very difficult to outsmart him in order to keep them away from a potential meal. The expression "Sly as a Fox" is very true :D
 
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Cerys said:
I hunt because I enjoy it, its fun, its better for the fox population than driving round the countryside and taking pop-shots at anything fox shaped that we see in the lamp (which is also fun but not quite as selective as hunting I feel), my horse enjoys it (she doesn't always get to come as I often follow a fell pack), it pays the hunt servants wages, it keeps the hounds in food (which wouldn't have needed to be the case but for the laws this goverment keep bringing in about disposal of deadstock).

Sorry if this upsets people, pro or antis, but to be honest what ever people say about reports into this or that I am not going to change what I do and I am certainly not going to feel guilty about it.

(I am really trying to stop replying on this thread but I think i'm addicted, do you think patches or gum might help?!)

ETA- Sorry, I feel that I need to add a disclaimer to this to say that these are definately only my views and do not represent the views of any other pro-hunt people (unless they choose to say so). Other hunting opinions are available.
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I'm not sure they make patches or gum for this particular problem but you try asking your GP,you never know;):D

I have to admire your honesty,but I also have to say that to hear any one say they enjoy to go out and be part of killing a small animal is very worrying.The urge to do such things and take pleasure from it is actually quite wrong.I have no problem with the need to dispose of pests for a practical end,but to take pleasure from the actual act is quite another thing.
Perhaps this is the whole problem with hunting and why most the majority of the population find it disturbing.
 
Food for thought

It seems to me after ready many of these posts that it is the chasing and manner of death for the fox that many of the anti hunt people object to. Are those who object to hunting with hounds also against the management of these animals, which I think has been agreed by all parties can be a huge pest to livestock owners?

Does anyone have a figure of how many foxes are killed nationwide by different forms of hunting?

Would also be interested to hear to the views of those who are anti hunt on what they think about some of our intensive farming processes that fill our supermarket shelves. For instance the tens of thousands of male calves that are culled days after they are born because there is no market for them because they are born of dairy cattle and as such wont make the quota for weight for beef for the supermarkets?
 
Hillbilly said:
Actually, the Hunting Act 2004 has done nothing to protect foxes from those who seek to reduce their numbers.

I doubt if the fox population has increased since the ban, and i would bet that it has in fact decreased given the amount of fox killers, other than hunts, which actively keep fox numbers down.

Where they were once hunted, foxes are now trapped, snared, poisoned, lamped with lurchers/rifle/shotgun, worked below ground with terriers and dug out, and fired upon with all manner of weapons in all conditions and regardless of whether a clean kill is possible or not.

It used to be that foxes were preserved, at least at certain times of the year so that there would be foxes there for the hunt during the season.

Now foxes are fair game for anyone with stock to protect and the fox, which may have been healthy and fit enough to beat the hounds and live to pass his genes on to the next generation, now dies a horrible death by any means available to those who would seek his demise.

The foxes most likely to live long and fruitful lives are those mange-ridden, bin-raking urban-dwellers who will be the biggest threat to British livestock, pets, and wildlife, should rabies ever take a hold here.

Rabid foxes will and do bite, or otherwise infect, humans as well as fellow animals, and those foxes which live in urban areas will be the very devil to control in the face of notifiable diseases.

The Hunting Act 2004 will pale into insignificance against legislation to control the spread of rabies.

What will the fluffies do then, I wonder?
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I knew someone would drag up the old 'rabies' one :rolleyes:

We have a VERY good system in place to reduce the risk of rabid animals being allowed into the country.
I know this as I worked in import/export of animals for many years and in all that time there has been one case of a rabid dog which was very recently and was in quarantine kennels so was of no threat to anyone but the staff caring for him.

Considering the lack of outbreaks of rabies since records began, I very much doubt we are on course for a rabid mauling because hunting with hounds has been banned.

There is no way a crazy, hollywood film type outbreak of rabies in foxes would occur over here.

If rabies were to come to our lands it would be via bats which do not attack animals nor people.

*goes back to being a fluffball* :p
 
Zani said:
It seems to me after ready many of these posts that it is the chasing and manner of death for the fox that many of the anti hunt people object to. Are those who object to hunting with hounds also against the management of these animals, which I think has been agreed by all parties can be a huge pest to livestock owners?

Personally I don't believe any human has the right to kill an animal because its a pest/vermin/lowly being etc.
However, I do not have an issue with an animal being stalked and shot cleanly with no chase of any kind. I would never condone it but acknowledge that the animal will not have died in fear or exhaustion which makes it a much more attractive option if an animal must be culled.

Does anyone have a figure of how many foxes are killed nationwide by different forms of hunting?

I still haven't found any non biased research to be honest!

Would also be interested to hear to the views of those who are anti hunt on what they think about some of our intensive farming processes that fill our supermarket shelves. For instance the tens of thousands of male calves that are culled days after they are born because there is no market for them because they are born of dairy cattle and as such wont make the quota for weight for beef for the supermarkets?

The meat and dairy industry are just as horrific, if not worse, as fox hunting. Its sickening what humans put animals through for supposed survival even though we can survive, in fact thrive, without eating animal products.
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Im crap at quoting!
 
Zani said:
Would also be interested to hear to the views of those who are anti hunt on what they think about some of our intensive farming processes that fill our supermarket shelves. For instance the tens of thousands of male calves that are culled days after they are born because there is no market for them because they are born of dairy cattle and as such wont make the quota for weight for beef for the supermarkets?
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I think it's dispicable but I still believe two wrongs do not make a right. Like I said in my earlier post, there are plenty of other horrific crimes against animals that go on in this country everyday but the existance of one wrong does not justify the continuation of another. If banning fox hunting brings the issue of animal welfare into the spotlight and widens peoples interest in issues such as intensive farming then it can only be a step in the right direction. Perhaps the governments time and money could better have been spent trying to improve farming conditions? But then you would have the outrage of farmers left out of pocket, people comlpaining about the increased cost of dairy and meat products on our shelves... whatever you do you're bound to upset somebody. There will always be people who lack compassion for animals and like to turn a blind eye to their suffering if they are to gain from it in some way, in the case of fox-hunting though this percentage of people was outnumbered and the law was passed. We can only hope in time the majority will swing in a similar fashion in other areas of animal cruelty in our country.
 
Zani said:
It seems to me after ready many of these posts that it is the chasing and manner of death for the fox that many of the anti hunt people object to. Are those who object to hunting with hounds also against the management of these animals, which I think has been agreed by all parties can be a huge pest to livestock owners?
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I grew up in a house with a pond full of ducks and never lost any to foxes.Likewise, my next door neighbours who had a bird sanctuary. With good animal husbandry, the damage done by foxes can be limited.England has a changing landscape which is gradually eradicating the environment in which foxes along with other wildlife find it harder to survive, particularly with fiercely terriorial animals like foxes. Foxes don't just attack chickens, they hunt small mammals including rabbits, which in my area is pretty helpful. We have an abundance of rabbits due to the quarries and each day I have to check my horses field for new rabbit holes. I have the constant worry that my youngster will break her leg overnight in a new rabbit hole.
Wild foxes don't have a long life span, think its something like 11 months, although stand to be corrected if that's wrong. Controlling fox populations is a tradition from another era when England was plentiful in woodland,wild meadows, hedgerows and forest.How much of a service to the community are the hunts actually doing in the 21 century ? The realitity is that its just a blood sport, no more, no less.
 
Zani said:
Would also be interested to hear to the views of those who are anti hunt on what they think about some of our intensive farming processes that fill our supermarket shelves. For instance the tens of thousands of male calves that are culled days after they are born because there is no market for them because they are born of dairy cattle and as such wont make the quota for weight for beef for the supermarkets?
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Before I buy any meat, I always check where it was produced and how the animals where reared. I refuse to buy any imported or factory farmed meat.

Believe me, it’s not a pleasant experience for dairy farmers when they have to shoot an healthy animal. However, I think you’ll find that very few bull calves ever make it to the UK supermarket shelves as veal, most go into the animal food chain while others are exported to the continent on the hoof (up untill recently)....which to my mind is a worse fate than being shot dead on a farm.

However, dairy farmers now have the option of purchasing sexed semen to reduce the numbers of bull calves born. Asda have a scheme in place that offers dairy farmers the semen at a reduced rate. The scheme also produces a market for 12 month old dairy bull calves...so things are looking up.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2008/09/15/112178/supermarket-starts-buying-dairy-bull-calves.html

There's still a long way to go, but at least some farmers and supermarkets are working together to greatly reduce the slaughter of so many bull calves.
 
india said:
Before I buy any meat, I always check where it was produced and how the animals where reared. I refuse to buy any imported or factory farmed meat.

Believe me, it’s not a pleasant experience for dairy farmers when they have to shoot an healthy animal. However, I think you’ll find that very few bull calves ever make it to the UK supermarket shelves as veal, most go into the animal food chain while others are exported to the continent on the hoof (up untill recently)....which to my mind is a worse fate than being shot dead on a farm.

However, dairy farmers now have the option of purchasing sexed semen to reduce the numbers of bull calves born. Asda have a scheme in place that offers dairy farmers the semen at a reduced rate. The scheme also produces a market for 12 month old dairy bull calves...so things are looking up.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2008/09/15/112178/supermarket-starts-buying-dairy-bull-calves.html

There's still a long way to go, but at least some farmers and supermarkets are working together to greatly reduce the slaughter of so many bull calves.
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I'm with you on this one, I do exactly the same and where possible support local farmers (excellent farm shop not too far away!).

Had not heard about the sexed semen though and yes it is a good move if they can reduce this horrendous waste (and we should all demand more veal on the shelves!!!!).

Thanks - just goes to show you can learn something new every day! :)
 
angelfben said:
I think it's dispicable but I still believe two wrongs do not make a right. Like I said in my earlier post, there are plenty of other horrific crimes against animals that go on in this country everyday but the existance of one wrong does not justify the continuation of another. If banning fox hunting brings the issue of animal welfare into the spotlight and widens peoples interest in issues such as intensive farming then it can only be a step in the right direction. Perhaps the governments time and money could better have been spent trying to improve farming conditions? But then you would have the outrage of farmers left out of pocket, people comlpaining about the increased cost of dairy and meat products on our shelves... whatever you do you're bound to upset somebody. There will always be people who lack compassion for animals and like to turn a blind eye to their suffering if they are to gain from it in some way, in the case of fox-hunting though this percentage of people was outnumbered and the law was passed. We can only hope in time the majority will swing in a similar fashion in other areas of animal cruelty in our country.
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I would totally agree that two wrongs don't make a right, and I also agree that the governments time and money could have been better spent!

I just thought I would pose the question as was speaking to someone in our village the other day who was ranting about the hunting, but she is the very same person who buys two chickens for £5 in Tescos because they are so cheap and feeds one of them to her dog. It just struck me as odd that someone who have such apparent compassion for the fox but yet happily eat chickens force fed and left to live in their own excrement for weeks on end!

Obviously I am NOT suggesting that anyone who is anti hunting is oblivious to the plight of any othe animals!
 
Cerys said:
India- It is a farm, mostly hill and fell but with some lowland. I really don't want to get into a discussion over this as it is not why I come on NR. I just don't think we should be arguing over farm size (its come a long way from the hunt going past a persons field hasn't it?).

I apologise for saying that you had a chocolate boxy image of farming, it had nothing to do with the fact that you are an anti, its just the way that your post came across.
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Oops only just found this....

I agree, but I wish your posts had been on a farming forum because there's still a number of questions I'd like answering.

My thoughts remain the same, but thank you for apologising.:)
 
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