How much do you trust the seller, and is there much money involved? Realistically I don't think you have grounds to send her back to the seller and demand a refund, so if they'll have her back it's as a goodwill gesture. From their point of view I can see that they've sold her and may have already used the money and it may take some time to sell her on (though at least it's a good time of year to be selling. From your point of view you'll be paying out livery if you keep her with you, become more attached to her & won't be able to keep her in work so she won't show to her best BUT by sending her back to the seller there is the risk you won't get your money back from the sale or it'll be a much lower figure - I assume they are offering at east a partial refund out of future sale proceeds? If they're just saying they'll have her back but you get nothing then I'd say no & sell on as a project from the field being very honest about why you're doing this.
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How much do you trust the seller, and is there much money involved? Realistically I don't think you have grounds to send her back to the seller and demand a refund, so if they'll have her back it's as a goodwill gesture. From their point of view I can see that they've sold her and may have already used the money and it may take some time to sell her on (though at least it's a good time of year to be selling. From your point of view you'll be paying out livery if you keep her with you, become more attached to her & won't be able to keep her in work so she won't show to her best BUT by sending her back to the seller there is the risk you won't get your money back from the sale or it'll be a much lower figure - I assume they are offering at east a partial refund out of future sale proceeds? If they're just saying they'll have her back but you get nothing then I'd say no & sell on as a project from the field being very honest about why you're doing this.
Oh my if things aren’t hard enough .... Moo was advertised as novice ride good to learn on etc ... obviously she has turned out not to be ... things have unravelled slowly like me messaging seller “what did you last worm her with so I can do my worming programme”
No reply .... she was brought on transporter .. I was under impression seller was coming with her but no she sent her on transporter with all her stuff... but in that stuff no passport ... I have spent 3 weeks since I’ve had her trying to get the passport and was told it was with transporter people will be seeing them next week then ill post it to you ... still no passport and with all moos issues unravelling that’s when I thought this horse needs to go back ... moos issues are since we’ve been with her can’t pick her back feet up (without stress ) could when we went to see her, she freaks out at men.. she is not settled and seems to be getting worse to a danger point of view (not just in the riding) .... I don’t trust the history of Moo she’s not the horse we went to see ... I’ve been updating the seller on Moo’s progress good or bad over 3 weeks and she agreed to come take her back and sell her on but then the seller has my money and the horse ... and with the track record with passport etc and how she advertised her and how she is ... no I really don’t trust the seller 100% I don’t know what to do ... so I let her take her back and hope she sells her and I get my money or do I pay out for vet passport etc try to sell her myself ?? Then that means longer we have her .. my daughter won’t go to see her now she is trying to completely cut ties ... jeeze what a mess !!!
She just said she’ll take her back and would sell her on she said she could get more money than what I paid and she would take 10% and she could do a quick sale ... I paid £1800 so I don’t mind losing couple hundred pound lesson learned but I feel vulnerable no money refund and no horse ... thought I might ask her to sign something saying she has taken her to sell ??? Please help with advice
Can you get some proper legal advice? If you insured her your policy may include legal advice, or are you a BHS member? Failing that speak to Citizens Advice.
Novice ride is very open to interpretation Realistically your daughter is a non-rider & you've been out of it for long enough that, depending on your skills before, some may say you're barely a novice now. I'm not trying to provoke an argument, merely point out you'd be on uncertain ground trying to claim she was mis-sold.
Novice ride is very open to interpretation Realistically your daughter is a non-rider & you've been out of it for long enough that, depending on your skills before, some may say you're barely a novice now. I'm not trying to provoke an argument, merely point out you'd be on uncertain ground trying to claim she was mis-sold.
I know what you mean but when it’s also verified by an instructor/trainer who works for BHS that this horse was sold “not fit for purpose “ ???
If it was a private seller you'd have to prove it was fraudulent misrepresentation. The instructor wasn't involved from day 1 so I expect they'd get away with saying the horse wasn't like that when they sold her, and again what is the exact definition of novice? You might be lucky but I doubt it & you'd probably spend more money than you stand to lose trying to prove it. "Not fit for purpose" only holds for a dealer anyway, was she bought from a dealer?
Oh Lord, so sorry it's turned out like this for you. Can't advise you on the legal side, I'm afraid, but maybe you would be better to sell her yourself, be very honest, as carthorse said, and sell her as a project. Failing all that, as a last resort, I suppose you could have someone professional restart her, so to speak? It would cost though, I think it cost someone I know about £400 to send hers away to 'sort out. Sorry I can't come up with anything better.
If the horse was misdescribed as suitable for novice and it isn't then even if it is a private seller you are covered under the sale of goods act and can get a full refund if returned within 14 days.
@fourlegs it's past 14 days though & I believe that for a private seller you have to prove they knowingly & with the intention to deceive missdesribed the horse. If they said they'd had a couple of novice riders on her with no problem & she'd been quiet I think any case would fall apart. Horses aren't like cars, they change in different hands and so it's very hard to prove things. There's also the possibility that the seller may say that @moweykezza over-stated her abilities (not saying this is the case!!) and that if they'd realised that her skills were as they are they wouldn't have sold to her, but that if they now take the horse back it's worth less than when they sold it as it's behaviour has become unruly where it was previously polite. I must say I would expect a novice buyer to have a reasonable skill set, probably higher than the op's appears to be based on this thread.
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She was from a dealer. I got her on the Tuesday and by Saturday 4 days after her arriving things were going downwards problems started to occur that’s when I started my original thread and by 10 days in I had the BHS trainer in. During this 3 week period the dealer was kept uptodate of the issues I was having and was originally informed on day 4. With all due respect I may have been out of the horse game for some time but I am not a complete novice (even though I went into this sale stupidly on reflection and should have known better) but under the circumstances of what we’ve been through I’m afraid heart just ruled my head on this one. I am 44 have been riding since I was 8yrs old and have had horses from me being 16yrs to the age of 35yrs when I packed In. which over the years included 2 tb (1 was ex race horse totally not novice ) x1 3yr old little pony lead rein for my niece and x1 14h cob cross. Therefore, no not a compete novice with horses. I’ve just gone into this on the advert and the total “word”’of the dealer ... and like I’ve stated by day 4 things were starting to spiral and the dealer was informed, maybe I should have returned her on day 4 and probably if this horse was just for myself I may have returned her straight away if I was in the right frame of mind but as I stated In my previous posts I hung on and tried to make it work because my daughter has fallen for this horse and knew it would break her heart to send her back (which it has done ) and for what she’s been through “I tried” to sort this with professional help and it still hasn’t worked. It’s a backlash on my stupidity. Years ago if I was talking to someone who had done what I’ve done I would have shook them and said “wake up smell the coffee ! What have you done send it back !” But I didn’t I tried with her, yes it’s not worked but I feel I’ve tried in the right way I didn’t just take her on myself to do the work with her I feel I did it the correct way with professional help.... early post not much sleep tonight ..
After looking at link I think I have abided by the rules eg: informing seller etc within reasonable period of time ... first informed on day 4 and I would say be 20 days the decision to return was all in a reasonable period of time ...what about the sellers action 1. Not sending her with the passport 2 her travelling to me without the passport 3 constant messages me chasing the passport ( still not received ) 4. Not responding to me with queries on her worming programme etc for the horses welfare .... I feel the seller hasn’t complied with any rules and regulations ...
Rights against a Trader
The law affords persons buying from a trader significantly more protections than it does as against a private seller. Where someone purchases a horse from a seller acting in the course of their business, section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 will impose implied terms into the agreement for sale, such as that the horse is of satisfactory quality and fit for the purpose it was bought for. This will give the purchaser the right to rescind the contract and return the horse in the event it is not in compliance with these terms. For example, if the horse has a behavioural problem that was present prior to the date of purchase, but which the buyer only discovers once the sale is complete. The buyer will be entitled to a full refund of the purchase price. If you rightfully reject the horse because it is not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality you are not obliged to transport the horse back to the seller. It is for the seller to arrange for the horse to be collected at his or her own expense. However, if the seller will not pick the horse up, you must still ensure that the horse is properly looked after. This may mean that you have to continue to pay a third party to keep the horse on livery until it is collected. The seller will be legally obliged to reimburse you any expenses you reasonably incur in connection with the purchase, including those necessary to properly look after the horse whilst it awaits collection. As soon as possible after you discover that the horse does not comply with the implied terms as to quality and/or fitness for purpose, you should notify the seller. This is because the right to reject the horse under those implied terms can be lost if the buyer does something inconsistent with the seller’s ownership or retains the horse beyond a reasonable period of time.
Rights against a Trader
The law affords persons buying from a trader significantly more protections than it does as against a private seller. Where someone purchases a horse from a seller acting in the course of their business, section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 will impose implied terms into the agreement for sale, such as that the horse is of satisfactory quality and fit for the purpose it was bought for. This will give the purchaser the right to rescind the contract and return the horse in the event it is not in compliance with these terms. For example, if the horse has a behavioural problem that was present prior to the date of purchase, but which the buyer only discovers once the sale is complete. The buyer will be entitled to a full refund of the purchase price. If you rightfully reject the horse because it is not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality you are not obliged to transport the horse back to the seller. It is for the seller to arrange for the horse to be collected at his or her own expense. However, if the seller will not pick the horse up, you must still ensure that the horse is properly looked after. This may mean that you have to continue to pay a third party to keep the horse on livery until it is collected. The seller will be legally obliged to reimburse you any expenses you reasonably incur in connection with the purchase, including those necessary to properly look after the horse whilst it awaits collection. As soon as possible after you discover that the horse does not comply with the implied terms as to quality and/or fitness for purpose, you should notify the seller. This is because the right to reject the horse under those implied terms can be lost if the buyer does something inconsistent with the seller’s ownership or retains the horse beyond a reasonable period of time.
Firstly, do not beat yourself up and feel full of guilt. I've done (as have many) EXACTLY what you have, twice, but I was lucky, both times. One so often expects others to follow one's own standards ie be honest, but unfortunately, not everybody does. No wonder you're not sleeping - I'd be a basket case in your situation. You sound as though you've done your homework on the legal side, so well done there, perhaps take that next step and get a solicitors letter with a bit of a threat of legal action? If you're lucky, the dealer might just not want the hassle. Again, I'm sorry I'm not much help on that side of things, but really do feel for you with the whole situation.
My advice is to send her back and accept that you may lose all the money. If you get anything back from the dealer it will be a bonus.
It's a horrible situation. Most of all I feel for this poor pony, she is an uneducated baby and none of this is her fault. If you were able to handle her on a daily basis I would say that you would be better off rehoming her yourself. But, you are very unlikely to get £1800 for her, and if she is proving dangerous to work with and getting worse daily, the best thing you can do is pass her over to someone who can safely manage her.
The other alternative is to send out a facebook plea to your local area, and basically give her away to someone who you trust and can provide references. Yes, you will lose the cash, but the priority here has got to be the welfare of this pony.
And learn the lessons for next time. It sounds like she could have been drugged when you got her. So next time, take an instructor with you and get the pony vetted and blood tested before you part with any money.
It's a horrible situation. Most of all I feel for this poor pony, she is an uneducated baby and none of this is her fault. If you were able to handle her on a daily basis I would say that you would be better off rehoming her yourself. But, you are very unlikely to get £1800 for her, and if she is proving dangerous to work with and getting worse daily, the best thing you can do is pass her over to someone who can safely manage her.
The other alternative is to send out a facebook plea to your local area, and basically give her away to someone who you trust and can provide references. Yes, you will lose the cash, but the priority here has got to be the welfare of this pony.
And learn the lessons for next time. It sounds like she could have been drugged when you got her. So next time, take an instructor with you and get the pony vetted and blood tested before you part with any money.
Thank you ... I can go over old ground of should have would have could have.. but this is the situation I’m in and uncertain how to take this forward .. my predicament is the seller has offered to take her back and sell but with the trust issue of this sellers previous actions I feel a bit vulnerable no money no horse so I’m going to make some phone calls this morning for legal advice ... I’m thinking of something in writing that she has taken her back to re-sell that we both sign ??? I can’t face the heartache of selling her myself so if no refund I would prefer this course of action ... I’ve got a few numbers to ring so I’ll see what initial advice they’ll give. I’ve got an abundance of people in the queue now to help me look for our next one ha ha just wish I’d been in touch with them a couple on months ago .... oh well head screwed back on now few phone calls to make this morning then off to the riding school this morning I’m having refresher lessons get me back in the saddle so to speak
Really really good luck with things. Keep us posted on how it's going. Poor you, poor daughter and poor pony. As for the dealer -
.
Whilst most of this appears to apply, the example
says to me you'd have to prove the pony wasn't suitable at the time of purchase, but by all accounts she was well behaved then, which leads to the point the @carthorse raised
I would def be seeking specialist legal advise, horse sales are a whole different ball game to the sale of many inert objects. Hopefully you have legal cover with your insurance (I have BHS legal and they were incredibly helpful when I called them about an issue a couple of years ago, really helped me understand where I stood legally). Good luck, getting some answers this morning Have you tried contacting the transporter directly re the passport? your legal bod should be able to advise, but a pony being sold without a passport (in my mind that is what they have done unless you were shown it at the viewing?) might be grounds for nulling the sale.
Have you tried contacting the transporter directly re the passport? your legal bod should be able to advise, but a pony being sold without a passport (in my mind that is what they have done unless you were shown it at the viewing?) might be grounds for nulling the sale.
Well everyone I have had positive feedback from the horse society legal team and guess what the dealer had “tweaked” her name a little and when I have just googled her real name oh my they have been fined £1000s in the past for fraudulent passports (I still haven’t received mine anyway!) horses sold unfit for purpose horses which have had to be put to sleep and not only horses ...dog scams as well !! Buying them from Ireland pretending they’re pedigrees fraudulent pedigree papers heartbroken
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