Anyone feed mint?

[Mary Poppins]

I think UK pasture is too rich for many horses to be on 24/7. So they are restricted one way or another - track systems, muzzling, restricted turnout, whatever. Mine aren't in that category and have always been out 24/7 most of the year. I am reluctant to change that for same reason as OBC really. I like them to play, groom, graze, mooch around. So that's something I need to weigh up carefully. I'd love to sort out a track system but not sure what YO would think!

But if you don’t have rich pasture there would be no need to restrict? Ben is out on 20 acres of ex dairy farm grazing which is fertilised every year. It isn’t surprising that this contains too much sugar for him. If he were on different grazing than maybe 24/7 turnout would be possible for him.

 

[Kite_Rider]

Now this is the real question! Do shoes protect the hoof? Or do they restrict the horses movement?

Again I would say that depends on the horse and the situation, what I can say is in Belles case, she moves much better with shoes on, they for certain protect the hoof, we hack 5 days a week for a minimum of 4 miles. 95 percent of our hacking is tarmac, the rest is gravel tracks, without shoes she doesn't grow enough hoof to cope, to give you an idea, I have to have her shod every 6 weeks because she wears out her metal shoes, so imagine on a horse who grows very little hoof what effect that has on an un shod hoof.

 

[Mary Poppins]

The thread is interesting and poised some good questions nearly doubting the way I have kept my horses for the last twenty plus years.

Now I am all for change and very open to new ideas but the very thought of going from 24:7 turn for a health horse to restricted turned out in order to remove shoes on a horse that neither loses shoes or had balance issues in order that I can feel better because it’s the way nature intended to me is madness as nature never intended me to get on his back I’m rhe first place potential causing issues as I am sure with out me whether he is 100% sound or not will not effect him in the slightest

But it all depends on the situation you are in. I have always had to restrict grazing to some extend to prevent Ben becoming too fat. This is true for many horse owners. The only difference is that he now comes in all day and has more soaked hay than he did before. If your grazing isn’t lush, perhaps your horses are not getting excess sugar and do not need restricting. The theory isn’t a blanket ban on 24/7 turnout, it is encouraging owners to assess and limit the amount of sugar their horses are getting. At Rockley Farm all their horses live out 24/7, but they have developed their farm into tracks which are different surfaces instead of a field of lush grass. So their horses have the option of moving all day, but not stuffing their faces. I can’t do this so I have to stable.

My motivation for barefoot was nothing to do with a notion of keeping Ben in his natural state. It was about getting him sound after months of lameness. I am raving about it now because it has had a huge influence on him and was the turning point for us. The benefits have been remarkable. Please don’t think that my ramblings are intended to influence anyone else’s views on horse care. All I am concerned with is my own horse. I do admit to strong feelings about Ben’s old shoes. They are in my kitchen and I view them as evil objects which made him lame! But I do not care in the slightest if anyone else chooses to shoe or not, I am not out to change the world or influence anyone else. We all make our own choices. All I care about is getting my horse sound and healthy and I will do anything to make this happen.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Again I would say that depends on the horse and the situation, what I can say is in Belles case, she moves much better with shoes on, they for certain protect the hoof, we hack 5 days a week for a minimum of 4 miles. 95 percent of our hacking is tarmac, the rest is gravel tracks, without shoes she doesn't grow enough hoof to cope, to give you an idea, I have to have her shod every 6 weeks because she wears out her metal shoes, so imagine on a horse who grows very little hoof what effect that has on an un shod hoof.

I think it is great that you are Belle are both happy with her being shod. I am not trying to turn everyone into barefoot fanatics. If you are both happy that is great and I am pleased you are enjoying your hacking.

I only posted details of this supplements and my management of Ben because people asked for them. I am not trying to influence anyone. The questions I have raised are ones in which I have been asking myself to make Ben better.

 

[newforest]

Thing is with all this you don't want to throw out common sense with the bath water.

If the shoes made him lame you would have seen that from day one. He's been shod most of his life?
I suspect it's a combination of how he was shod, his arthritis altering his movement and maybe the increased work because you didn't know about it.
It's a little naive to blame it solely on being shod as the problem, it's good to hear taking them off is helping. That's what everyone wants, a sound horse. But I wouldn't suddenly jump ship from having shoes- you never know when you might need to shoe again.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Thing is with all this you don't want to throw out common sense with the bath water.

If the shoes made him lame you would have seen that from day one. He's been shod most of his life?
I suspect it's a combination of how he was shod, his arthritis altering his movement and maybe the increased work because you didn't know about it.
It's a little naive to blame it solely on being shod as the problem, it's good to hear taking them off is helping. That's what everyone wants, a sound horse. But I wouldn't suddenly jump ship from having shoes- you never know when you might need to shoe again.

Yes, he has been completely sound in shoes and was for many years. But he has suffered arthritic changes in his right fore and the shoe did not allow him to redistribute his weight to compensate for this, hence he developed the 2 inflamed splints and became lame on that leg.

Who knows if he would have become lame if he had always been barefoot? It may seem irrational to blame the shoes for everything, but directing my anger towards 2 metal shoes has helped me cope. I can blame them for everything! So I do take your point that I cannot know the extent that the shoes caused the problem. Any maybe I am wrong and maybe in a years time he will he shod again. I may go completely back on my word and barefoot may fail for us in the long term. But right now, I am blaming the shoes for everything that has gone wrong for us. I may sound like a mad, crazy barefoot lady, but for me, at this point of time, all my anger is directed to his shoes!! It has to go somewhere so I would rather be angry with some bits of metal than be angry at something or someone who may talk back to me!

 

[Kite_Rider]

I think it is great that you are Belle are both happy with her being shod. I am not trying to turn everyone into barefoot fanatics. If you are both happy that is great and I am pleased you are enjoying your hacking.

I only posted details of this supplements and my management of Ben because people asked for them. I am not trying to influence anyone. The questions I have raised are ones in which I have been asking myself to make Ben better.

All I was doing was trying to point out that, while Rockley Farm and many other people say all horses can go as nature intended and not need to wear shoes, it simply isn't the case for every horse and every situation. I'm not trying to say that what you are doing is wrong, it's just that sometimes you do come across as quite evangelical about being shoe less and for those of us not blessed with a horse who can cope without it can sometimes seem as though those of us who shoe are doing something to our horses detriment, were not, we are doing the same as you and managing our horses the best we can to keep them sound.
Not having a go, merely replying to the many interesting questions your post has raised.
As for me being happy that Belle is shod, in many ways I'm not, I would much prefer for her not to need them, but she does and I can't change that, so I have to shoe and if that is whats best for her so be it.

 

[MrC]

Yes, he has been completely sound in shoes and was for many years. But he has suffered arthritic changes in his right fore and the shoe did not allow him to redistribute his weight to compensate for this, hence he developed the 2 inflamed splints and became lame on that leg.

Who knows if he would have become lame if he had always been barefoot? It may seem irrational to blame the shoes for everything, but directing my anger towards 2 metal shoes has helped me cope. I can blame them for everything! So I do take your point that I cannot know the extent that the shoes caused the problem. Any maybe I am wrong and maybe in a years time he will he shod again. I may go completely back on my word and barefoot may fail for us in the long term. But right now, I am blaming the shoes for everything that has gone wrong for us. I may sound like a mad, crazy barefoot lady, but for me, at this point of time, all my anger is directed to his shoes!! It has to go somewhere so I would rather be angry with some bits of metal than be angry at something or someone who may talk back to me!

I’m sorry but that last bit sounds quite frankly ridiculous. You are blaming a set of shoes for your horse being as lame and with as many issues as he has had but until the last 6months he has been sound and in quite frankly a lot of work.

You need to take into account more than the shoes. Breed, age, workload, life before you are only a few of the factors. Also genetics what has he been predisposed to from Birth etc.

Barefoot works for some and doesn’t for others, same as anything else in life, one theory will not work for all, a barefoot hoof needs stimulus, sore aching joints need movement, I think you have jumped into this with both feet without really looking where you are putting them and you are coming across as one of the barefoot fanatics that you have probably scoffed at.

If it works for yours then great but personally from a long term barefooter who has competed barefoot for years I don’t think you are approaching this correctly at all.

 

[Jessey]

really a supplement that's worth it's salt and does the job need not be a cake mix.

Depends if you feed individual minerals/vits or if you get an all in one supp that's premixed, I feel like I'm baking a cake because I have a basic premix which I then top up with certain things to provide optimum levels considering Jess' ailments and diet, it's nothing to do with them not being 'worth their salt' they are just missing from the main diet or not metabolised very well.

Restricting access to grass isn't really that simplistic, it's more about restricting access to the wrong grass or grass the horse can't cope with (OBC if yours cope with 24/7 grass without being footy then no need to worry about it) and encouraging more movement to search out varied food, I'd kill for 20+ acres of scrubland, that would be an ideal environment, but I can't have that so I use a track to try to emulate it, no way would my lot be happy shut in a stable for half their lives and I wouldn't compromise on that, I think I too would rather shoe for half the year than stable for half the year if shoes didn't exaggerate Jess lameness and leave me unable to manage it (we tried 4 different types on the vets instructions).

Hank grows stilts if left completely without trimming, the hooves just get taller and taller, his I'm sure would eventually slipper because of that. I only trim him maybe 2 or 3 times a year so he self trims a bit but can't be completely left to it. Jess still needed trimming when doing up to 70 miles (probably 20 hours) a week hacking, her walls don't break back or wear much as they're super tough and she gets unbalanced.