Are most horse health problems man made??

Wally

Wally

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2000
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Are we over cautious?

Do we stick to strange traditions and rules without really understanding why we do it?

Are the majority of inspecific lameness cases caused by stabling for long periods and then working without sufficiently warming the horse up?

I just wonder, I see some folk with immaculate yards, spotless horses, strict stable routines and rules about all aspects of their horses lifestyles and handling.
Beautifully kept and maintained pastures, limed and fertilised, rolled and kept like bowling greens.
A rug for every occasion, summer, winter, autumn and spring, flies and sunshine!

....and they have vet bills like phone numbers!

Is it becasue they spend so much time worrying about every teeny detail and call the vet out all the time and he needs to prescribe something to justify his existence, or are the horses really getting ill?
 
quite agree - though having said that, Molly has been turned out mainly, fed naturally, only comes in at night in winter, is rugged, but has had everything wrong with her. Most of Molly's illnesses are between the ears, ie. sleeping sickness, immune system failure, anxiety, stress, fence walking, general low grade madness despite not being in work, kept at grass as pet since 1997 as unable to work due to stress of being in a field!

Rosie, same regime, hard as nails, only weakness laminitis. tough cookie, if you were at war you would want Rosie next to you as she would terrify the enemy, a strong bolshy cob who is very very healthy, she and Molly are the same age but Molly looks about 10 years older as she frets.

Have lost two donkeys to very unusual circumstances - Big Ears to colic, out 24/7 in summer, with access to stable, no additional feeding - Mouse to lymphoma, same routine, though rugged to the nth degree due to her arthritis.

My ex racehorse, found dead in field, heart attack, aged 16. Rowan broke leg in field, as a result of kick, pts.

I don't think I coddle them though some folks would say so as collectively they have about 30 horse rugs....but they hardly get a brush laid on them, they are left natural and well fed, out every day even in the worst of weather, last winter stood in for 1 1/2 days only and Rose and Molly lived out totally, though donks came in.

But Molly has run up in her life about £10K in bills - copd, broken splint bone, skin problems, anxiety, immune system and liver failure, general tiredness; Big Ears ran up £9K with recurring mastitis, skin problems, sarcoids, tore her eye..., then her final colic with unsuccessful surgery. Mouse ran up about £8K with with her lymphoma, arthritis (scans, xrays, therapy).
In comparison, Ferguson has been very cheap, now I shouldn't say that as it is just asking for him to get something serious.


this is from 1992 to date, so not sure what i am doing wrong!
 
Interesting question. Lots of variability no doubt, but for my mare it fits. She has a history of chronic, severe, recurrant lymphangitis. Within hours it can go from swelling in the lower leg to up over her quarters and her tummy and udders :eek: She becomes very ill and its quite scary. Then in 2005 she went lame on her forelegs. The right was a nasty splint, but the vet feared that 'there was more going on'. she had a very large sidebone in her left. It had been fractured at some point and it was felt that it was bad enough to be a very major problem. Surgery was suggested, but I was told that it was often unsuccessful :( When she wasn't ridden, she gradually became comfortable, so with a heavy heart I decided not to inflict the surgery on her, but to turn her away - retirement at aged 7 I thought.

Speaking to the Vet after a while, he suggested that after 6 months I start lunging her, not with an expectation that she would be sound, but to see if there was an improvement. I left her 7 months and found that she was sound. I slowly brought her back into work and it went well. This was a year ago and she is happy, sound and going well. My farrier and vet liased and we tried barefoot which also suits her :)

I had kept her out for as long as possible each day for the lymphangitis prior to all this, but being on full livery meant I didn't have full control of that. Thoughout the time she was turned away, she had no bouts of it at all. When bringing her back into work I knew that I must have her live out to keep her healthy. With a small blip I managed to find arrangements where this is the case and aside from the blip and a milder bout when she had some infection in the leg from a graze, she has been lymphangitis free.

She is clipped and rugged in the winter because she gets hot when working otherwise. However, I have dispensed with boots, including travel boots as the Vet warned me to be careful about them creating heat in the offending leg! I also only walk her on ground other than a school surface (no jumping, trotting on roads etc).

So it seems that stabling certainly contributed to, and maintained her health problems and a more natural, casual approach on my part (I often get funny looks when I load her onto a box with no protection on her legs) is good for her :) I must say that my vets haven't been doing any uneccasary prescribing. They have taken great care of her, have been excellent in discussing all options and very open to non-invasive approaches
 
Our horses have now had three homes whilst we've owned them, first yard: hardly any turn out, limited to 6 months of the year, approx 4 hours per day in large fields, lot of stabling, tho luckily outside stables not integral ones. Had problems with Joe's legs filling with fluid through standing in stable and issues with Storm's behaviour through lack of turnout. Ended up getting mud fever from the sandschool!
Second yard: as much turnout in summer as you can shake a stick at, winter turnout quite good (tho horrible lumpy field). Integral barn stables. Joe ended up with an infection which needed hospitalisation (we still don't really know what caused it) and Storm ended up 2 tenths lame through lumpy field.
Third home - our home! Both horses are turned out currently for as long as they want - they are quite domesticated and start to "ask" to come in around 8pm - am hoping for 24/7 as the weather gets better. So far so good (touches wood) I'm hoping all the fresh air and hacking is gonna keep them happy and healthy. they're both out without rugs - but rugged lightly at night. Both horses seem happier and calmer - probably due to being allowed to be "horses" for longer each day.
 
I think its all down to the fact that oldfashioned 'experience' with horses has been replaced with book learning at best. Sadly that also applies to a lot of vets!

We have had two memorable vet visits recently. one to a horse I thought may have the early signs of grass sickness (bear in mind I have lost two with the same symptoms) who insisted there was nothing wrong but he was 1/10 lame...well I did say he was not sound to work on hard ground hence being in RS so why trot him up on concrete? The second was young vet who had come to put an old pony to sleep as it had lung tumours and could barely breathe, we had to find a vein for her :eek:
 
Funny you should say that book learning has taken over. My cousin is a lecturing Dr. at a big teaching university. He laments the lack of anatomy training in the medical profession these days.
We were discussing something and he told me what one of his students had said during a lecture, ....it turned out, through my experiences with the slaughtering and butchering of sheep, pigs and cattle, that my knowledge of anatomy outstripped some of his 4th year medical students! :eek: :eek:

Frances and I can spot an ill horse from half a mile away! just by the way they move or not!

I just feel that some folk, who have the very best facilities and motives and aspirations for their horses seem to be plagued with illness and lameness and the like and wondered whether it was over pampering and over anxiety and calling the vet when there really is nothing the vet can do.
 
You could be right, but it could also be to do with what some people see as a problem, those who tend to rug up lots and put their horses to bed compared to those who leave horses out in all weathers seem to have different ideas on what is acceptable.

For example a good friend and I, mine are kept out as much as possible and only rugged as much as they need and stabled as little as possible (mostly to save the fields a bit) and fed lots of fibre etc - hers are out full time and not rugged and fed a small ammount of hay and mix.

A couple of instances I have wondered if she is right doing what she does eg
She has an arab and when on a wet windy winter day the horse is stood there shivering I wonder if that is right? - she sees it as their natural way to keep warm - I think as we stop them from moving over large distances and finding suitable shelter we should intervene when necessary and either provide shelter or rug them to ensure they are comfortable.

Stabling for long periods I am sure does cause more problems, like COPD and bored horses but I don't think it all comes down to the stabling itself :p
 
she sees it as their natural way to keep warm - I think as we stop them from moving over large distances and finding suitable shelter we should intervene when necessary and either provide shelter or rug them to ensure they are comfortable.
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This is where I and a friend fall out! She says no Shetland pony EVER should be stabled, I say as we have fenced in most of the hill and keep them confined to smaller fields now, thus depriving them of natural instincts to find shelter, we need to look to them and provide them with something in case the weather does something dreadful. One of her mares foaled in November and she left it out in all weathers. I say if your management has casued a foal to be born at the wrong time of year, it is up to you to provide it with food and shelter!

Then I have another friend who keeps her poor mares in all the time they are in foal and makes them foal in tiny "ferret boxes" you couldn't swing a cat in!

I like to find a happy medium. Out 24/7 where at all possible, but with the option to keep out of the horrendous weather.
 
I'm sure most horse problems are man made somewhere along the line but there are always some horses that seem to be magnets for every ailment going no matter how they're kept. Just like people I suppose.

I do think foot problems get overlooked a lot of the time which contribute to lots of lameness, muscular soreness and general poor performance. The author of 'No Foot No Horse' thinks so too, so it's not just a 'barefoot' view. Go round any yard and you'll see a number of horses with feet that are 'wrong', varying from mild to plain dreadful.
 
My pony Sparks, to my knowledge, was a bush pony til I got her. She was ridden on farms, worked cattle, had no schooling, no feeding, no rugs, never even seen a stable. Shes never had colic (to my knowledge!) never had the sniffles, never had a cold. Shes been lame three times in the four years (once was a stone bruise, once was because she freaked because of fireworks and jumped out her paddock, and the third was the onset of mild DJD in her knees) I've had her, and is now in her late 20's and early 30's, and is ridden 3-5 times a week, and is going show-jumping on Anzac Day.
 
I think my pair have become institutionalised to stabling - deary me, yesterday evening (glorious warm) Storm insisted upon entering her box and munching on haylage - rather than the lovely grass. How weird. There was some argy bargy as Joe tried to join her (he didn't seem to think it was rude going into her bedroom!!!!!!) I had to drag her out (literally) and make her graze outside. Well, her bed wasn't ready for her was it? Still had some mucking out to do.................!!!
 
Taken back to it's most simple form, we breed horses that may otherwise have been culled out by natural selectors, thereby perpetuating traits that may not be best for long-term health, so yes they are man made.

On an indvidual level it's also probably true but so little is really known about the horses immune system and mechanisms that it's impossible to say that x horse gets mudfever because of y management, or anything else for that matter.

My mare is a bit of a magnet for some problems yet is hardy as they come in other respects. I'm pretty sure almost all her current problems stem from poor hoof balance at an early age making her more prone to injury, and eventually helping to cause an injury which has impinged on many other aspects of her health. I've done what I can to improve those things that I can affect but I doubt she'll ever be as robust and healthy as she probably should have been. I also make management choices based on some of these little health quirks that I may not make otherwise.
 
Yes I'm overcautious - as an anxious ex-nurse, I worry too much & too soon. But having two elderly rescue ponies lets me off the hook a bit, IMHO.

They live "au natural" - out 24/7 all year, picking over 5 acres of grass, herbs, hedges & woods. Rarely rugged, optional shelter to use if they please (rarely do). Chaff based feed in winter only (soggy for the toothless one), ad lib hay, mineral licks all year.

So I'd like to believe their illnesses have not been man-made... but the big vet bills certainly were - because I used to ring 1st, think later.

Now I'll watch his benign spasmodic colic for 1/2 hour before pressing the panic button, for example.

Bear in mind information isn't always a bad thing. Many "symptoms" have triggered me to worry. So I edit books & google it - and what I find has put my mind at rest, no action taken after all. I think we need BOTH - books / info plus tons experience (never too much).
 
Some horses/ponies dont do well living out. I've only ever had one that wasn't native - and she couldn't live out in the winter - didn't like it in the summer much either. I like to keep the natives as natural as possible as this is the way they seem happiest. Falcon would hate to be shut in a stable (as he has demonstrated by smashing a stable to bits). Admittedly I do rug him in the winter as he's ridden during the week and it keeps him from getting too dirty. When he was on the Fells, he lived out permanently - that's the way he's 'programmed'! He seems very healthy and contended but likes to come into the yard for a groom and a cuddle (and of course, a feed)! We have to look at the way we keep our horses and make sure we're not doing them a disservice, or causing stress in any way.​
 
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Are we responsible for many equine ills? Or .... Do we call the vet out when common sense should prevail? How many folks coddle their children? Are the healthiest youngsters the ones who run and play, get dirty, fall off things and finish up in casualty every so often, or those who are wrapped up and protected, just in case?
 
Oh dear, what does that say about me, Mossy? - I coddle the ponies and am harsh with family! Hmmm... (When they whine to see the GP, I'm "tough, it's only a virus - drink a lot and rest for a few days" / "no it's not a tummy bug - you just drank too much wine last night" / "if you can squeeze it, you haven't broken it").
 
Frances and I are the same with the kids as we are with our OHs AND the animals!

Everyone is liable for a kicked butt if they don't toe the line! :D :D

We are dreadful mothers! Whinging and whining is not tollerated, not even in casualty! :eek: :eek:

Once we were both in the supermarket getting our shopping, and while waiting to pay there was a 6yo or so, child rocking violently in the shopping trolly kicking up a real stink. I hate badly behaved kids! Frances and I were trying our best to ignore! Suddnely the whole trolley shopping and all went over backwards on the kid, and to our utter embarassment when everyone else was running up offering the, by now screaming child, tea and sympathy, we looked at each other and as one said "well you had that coming didn't you?"

I am a great beliver in kids and animals being responsible for their actions!

We had an old horse who got every disease going. When strangles went round he got bastard strangles, when it was time to worm he got them migrating in nasty places and needed mega treatment, he got sesamoisitis, pedal ostitis, check ligament trouble, warbles, colic, you name it he got it!
 
I still cringe thinking about one of my sons when young. He had behavioural problems, as oppose to being a brat, and yes I do know the difference. However he was still responsible for his actions, so aged 6 when he threw himself on the floor, ala 2 yo, in the the city centre "best store" heartless mum walked off and left him yelling on the deck, picture me hiding round corner watching him. What he wanted was attention from me, what he got was ignored, until HE decided to fit in, and eventually he got tired of the game. I still walk away from him now, all 6ft 2 of him, if he oversteps the mark. Arguing is what he wants.
 
Why cringe Mossy? that's sound like a variant of operant conditioning - that I thought was encouraged for dealing with such behaviour, eg praising / giving attention to good behaviour, ignoring bad.
 
It's how mine got "trained" but he had no ASN.

I too did that, "see you, bye" the tantrum soon finished as there were other more pressing priorities!
 
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