Bad day- big decision. Schooling advice pls!

[HairyCob]

Hi folks,

I'll try to make this brief (but those of you who know me won't be surprised if it ends up a bit long!)

Right, took Pageant out today- nightmare! He napped, spun, refused to go where I asked him, bucked reared etc. Basically, Pageant displaying all his worst behaviour in one go!

Have new saddle that fits, back checked and dentist fairly recently- and last sunday he went out with a buddy and was an angel- so I'm pretty sure this is a training issue. It only seems to happen about every fourth or fifth time I take him out- the rest of the time he is ok, on his own or in company.

He was so bad today that I ended up getting off because it would have been dangerous to continue to ride- he did not however go straight home- I led him round the route I'd planned to ride. Still had to fight with him for most of the way tho!

He has been in for a couple of days, but has had the opportunity to stretch his legs for half an hour each day. I realise he was likely to be fresh having been in, and this I was prepared for, but the total disregard for anything I asked him for felt like bloody mindedness!

To top it all, after I got him back to the stables, I rugged him up to turn him out- the field is ten mins walk away, and he dragged his heels all the way there and then refused to go into the gate- it took me fifteen mins to persuade him to go out with his usual fieldmates.

So..... I'm thinking of sending him to a local lady who gets a brilliant name for starting/breaking/re-schooling horses, to see if she can do anything with him. If he goes it will be for a fortnight, and he will be worked on everyday and I will have a lesson on him twice a week while he is there. This place is within hacking distance too, so won't need to box him- can ride (or lead!!) him there and back. It isn't expensive considering the results she gets- in fact not much more than some places charge for full livery, and that will be included. A colleague of mine sent her pony to this lady to be broken- he was hacking out alone and in company, schooling well, polite and responsive and popping over small jumps within five weeks.

Have had mixed responses to this idea- one person said 'waste of money and it's like you are just giving up on him- if you can't sort it out yourself, you can't expect someone else to'.

The other person I spoke to said 'excellent idea, you aren't giving up on him, you are just admitting that something is going on that you don't have the expertise to deal with, I think it will do both of you the world of good'

So, thought I'd ask the level headed crew here what they think? Your opinion would be gratefuly recieved!

Thanks,

Claire

 

[G.Gracious]

I think it sounds like a great idea, i'm sure Gracie and i will have some problems in the future and if i don't know how to sort them out myself i will definately be asking for proffesional help!!

 

[Showjumper]

Definitely worth seeking professional help before one of you gets hurt. It sounds like you've had everything checked out and he's just being pigheaded. Some down to earth work with someone else (he might not mess a stranger about as much as he will mummy) will probably do him the world of good, and remind him that people have to be the boss.

Could you please PM me this person's phone number as one of the ladies at my yard wants to get her 6 year old restarted and wants to send him somewhere fairly local.

 

[Mehitabel]

i agree with the second person. i don't see how it's giving up on him - you're recognising you need some backup before things get to the stage where they can't be resolved. nothing to be ashamed of there; it's only sensible. we all need some help now and again.

have to add though i wouldn't discount the being in as a major cause. petal was in over night last winter as she was under lights to keep her coat for olympia. she as a different person altogether, and it got to the point where i didn't want to get on, as she was such a baggage. i wouldn't even contemplate getting on before she'd been out for a couple of hours - and it takes a lot to rattle me. as soon as she went out overnight again she was sweetness and light as she normally is.
some horses, especially native/cob types who aren't designed to be in, really don't cope with it. petal is the most dramatic version i've seen, but i've seen the same thing in a fair few horses.

 

[Hyper]

The secret is out - well to you!! BUT keep it please.

This does not sound right to me (and I'm sure Kerry would agree with me).

Scraping the barrel nevertheless - like we're sure you are too.

HC WHAT on earth is this all about? Is it really systematic behaviour demonstrated every 4-5 weeks? If so what else is happening at the yard at those times? This is just an example question btw. You seem to be saying that he is not telling you anything at all about going out alone or in company - but there must be something going on - as you know too well. BUT in a cycle??

True to form I'm asking more questions because I can't give answers - sorry.

S for K (who is now supposedly OK btw).

 

[Hyper]

Addendum

I didn't read your last couple of paragraphs carefully enough.

So, is it the local hunt - or are they felling trees or what?? You see it could be anything if it's cyclical. If it's cyclical imo it's nothing to do with him or you - AS A POSSIBILITY - it could be anything out there (those "apparent" predators for example that we humans are so used to seeing and hearing we miss it).

You have listened to him. There is a problem. BUT before you spend more money and lose all faith in yourself - take some time out to reflect.

S and K

 

[Hyper]

I'm not concentrating I'd judge. Anyway if it helps at all - Kerry just WILL NOT do anything at all sometimes..............she anticipates!!!!!!!

Sorry to all of those who cannot fathom this.

If she was anticipating being turned out (even with her mates - and she doesn't have any btw) and knew the weather was not to her taste --------------- she'd tell me so!!

 

[HairyCob]

New rider-ite's can always be relied upon for down to earth good advice! Thanks guys!

G.Gracious- 'professional help' makes it sound so much better than 'sending him away to school'- thankyou!

Showjumper- sensible as ever! Of course I'll send you her number.... just as soon as I find it- have a feeling it's on a little bit of paper tucked in my purse, but can't see it right now- will be able to get it again though, if i have lost it! She is in the W-S-M area- so not too far from you at all- can get you a number for someone else reccomended who is in Portishead ( I think!) too if you want it?

E's- I think today was partly to do with being in, but even when he is out 24/7 he has days like this for no apparant reason! He is cobby though, so maybe being in really rattled his cage (despite the fact that he made it quite clear that he wanted to come in out of the mud!! ) and made it much worse today than usual!

Hyper- I know who you are... I know who you are PM me and tell me what the hell is going on, would you??!! Glad to hear madam is OK btw!
Back to the subject in hand- I don't think it's cyclical as such- if I ride every day he is ok four days, a pig on fifth day, if I ride once a week, he is OK three or four times, pig on the next one! As you know with working shifts/studying I find it hard to ride as regularly as I should and would like to- but that is why I got a 'steady' cob that doesn't 'need' excersising everyday to stay sane!
No local hunt here, no tree felling, nothing unusual that I am aware of- may be something that only horses can see/smell I suppose, but I saw other people today, RIDING perfectly well behaved horses while I was leading a delinquent! o oh, the shame..... only joking! )

Keep your comments coming folks, anything you think may help would be gratefully recieved!

I am investing in a bitless bridle as reccomended by Yann- just maybe it is a major aversion to having a bit- have had bitting problems forever, it seems! Will try it, if it doesn't work, I'll have a 'no-bit bridle' for sale!!

 

[Showjumper]

That would be brilliant HC! She's desperate to get her little boy going as at the moment, people are placing bets on who's going to be ridden first - her 6 year old, or her yearling.

You may find his way of going will change completely when you take away the bit. If there's nothing to lean on, he may come back to you and ask what to do. I'm a big believer in bitless, and I hope it will iron things out for you

 

[HairyCob]

Showjumper- I'll get both numbers and PM you asap! Offer your friend my good luck wishes!

I sent the order off today for the bitless- so hopefully it won't take long to arrive! I'll let you know how we get on- I'm prepared to try anything at the moment!

 

[Showjumper]

It could be worth trying different kinds of bitless if the cross over No-Bit-Bridle doesn't work. Dolly walked straight through the leather bitless I made her, but with the rope halter, I have perfect control and she understands what she has to do to keep herself comfortable.

 

[HairyCob]

Thanks Showjumper, I'll bear that in mind- we could end up setting up a members only bridle and bit bank on here- with everyone swapping things they have tried for something they haven't tried yet!!

 

[Showjumper]

lol that's a brilliant idea!

 

[anuvb]

Hi HC, sorry to hear you're having problems with the Hairy beast.

How long has this been going on for?
Have you changed his feed routine?
Has there been any new additions in the field? ie has he got a new friend/girlfriend?
When was the last time he had a break from riding?
What does your usual exercise routine involve?
How often do you ride him in a week?
Have you tried keeping a diary of when it happens and when it doesn't happen?
Do you have anyone else riding him?
Do you have lessons on him?

Normally, I would say re-schooling was a great idea, but I'd be reluctant to say whole-heartedly go for it if there is a reasonable explanation for it all. To be honest, most horses I know can be like you are describing at this time of year with limited turnout, but also every horse has off days. This can stem from a number of things:

1 - lack of turn-out makes them restless, so they are dolls one day and brutes the next.
2 - change in feed and routine
3 - lack of stimulation in their work and they need more challenging work to compensate for the lack of turnout

There are also other factors tied in with the questions above but I'll wait for you to get back to me before I suggest anything else . Personally, I'd be addressing the above questions first before I started to change tack and bits and probably before I started to pay a lot of money for reschooling, but you may have already done this.

 

[Crazy Caroline]

The only thing to add is that you will be taking him away from his 'normal' environment so may act differently when away from home.

Is there someone that could visit you instead and see him in his own environment? Any horse whisperer-type people nearby that could help?

Just a thought.

 

[sallym]

Hairy Cob

Sorry to hear you're having problems with P. I think from previous correspondence, personality-wise, he's quite similar to Madam. Could he be bored? I don't mean just being in for a couple of days, but do you always hack the same routes? Also, there does seem to be something in the air at the moment...

Best wishes

Sally

 

[Hyper]

I'd agree with that. My hypothesis is that Jan-Apr poses great demands on owners/trainers/yard managers................because the temperature is becoming SO changeable (in this country) and in evolutionary terms (and timespans) it's all happening a bit too quickly for our western-hemisphere mares (and geldings) to cope with atm.

 

[LindaAd]

I agree with Caroline - could this trainer come to you and help you work with HC as she lives nearby? It seems to me that what you need is to learn to deal with him when he's difficult, otherwise you could send him off for retraining but as soon as something upset him you'd be back to square one. Also, changing yards can be very unsettling indeed for a horse - I'd want to be sure I'd tried everything else first.


Have you thought of trying a different saddle (it's a long story, but that made a huge difference to unpredictable Ginny, and we had had her saddle and back checked), or had lessons on him?

 

[HairyCob]

Wow! More replies! I'll answer each in turn......

anuvb-

How long has this been going on for?
About a year, on and off.

Have you changed his feed routine?
No! Still just gets hay and a token feed two or three times a week- happy hoof and a small handful of cool mix. In summer, just the grass and a handful of chaff with his sweetitch potion mixed in three times a week.

Has there been any new additions in the field? ie has he got a new friend/girlfriend?
No, but one has just left he didn't get on with her but even so.... good thinking batman!

When was the last time he had a break from riding?
Due to my shifts/amount I work and the weather he generally gets excersised a minimum of once a week, although he has gone two weeks without sometimes. Doesn't necessarily play up first or second time out after a break.

What does your usual exercise routine involve?
Hacking at walk with short trots in winter, longer hacks at walk, trot and canter in summer. Winter work is limited due to muddy bridleways but the shortest 'round trip' is half an hour, the longest, in winter, an hour and a quater.

How often do you ride him in a week?
See above! Maximum three times in winter, five in summer!

Have you tried keeping a diary of when it happens and when it doesn't happen?
Yes- there doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason!

Do you have anyone else riding him?
no- not in the three years I have had him- have tried to persuade my friend to ride him, but he has seen him playing up!

Do you have lessons on him?
No, we have no arena and no one close enough with one I am able to use- in summer I *could* have lessons in a corner of a field (whichever one the horses aren't in) but I am reluctant to do this because a) when I have tried schooling in the field, he has bolted for the gate to the other's field b) I don't like schooling him in his 'rest, relaxation and repast' area!!

With regard to turnout- he is out 24/7 unless he "tells" me he wants to come in- and he is very clear about this- standing at the gate, ignoring hay, whickering!

With regard to tack- his saddle has recently been changed to an easi-sit, which is adjusted to fit to his exact wither template- changed because his old saddle was way too narrow (wintec with widest gullet!). He was an angel the first few times I took him out in new saddle, and some improvements have been maintained- stands still for me to mount, movement much free-er, hasn't actually bolted home since saddle changed either- which is a major step forward!

Caroline- See above re-schooling avaliablity! Nowhere to do it at this time of year- dodgy in summer! This lady is about two miles away, so hacking routes would still be familiar, and I'd go see him every day! Haven't heard of any 'horse whisperers' in the area though I wouldn't be averse to trying one.

Sally- I think he is quite similar to Madam! Don't think it is boredom- obviously when keeping a horse in one place, all routes become familiar, but I do vary it- we have a selection of seven or eight hacking routes in winter and I do try to vary my choice as much as possible- there are some he plays up on more than others- usually the ones that involve going further or getting his feet wet or going to the beach! Maybe it is just the air!

Hyper- You could be right about the weather changes, maybe I'll perservere until april time, and if no improvement, send him off then!

Linda- Trainer can't come to me for reasons outlined above, but I would be able to have lessons on him while he was there- in fact she postively encourages it. Would hope to have at least four lessons on him, maybe two in the school and two on a hack. More if I can fit it in and afford it!
See above re: saddle! Made a huge difference, but the 'stubborn' behaviour has now returned- napping, refusing to go in one or other direction, general silliness. Bolting and refusing to stand still have stopped, bucking is reserved for high-spirited times and when he is being bloody minded- used to be everytime I asked for anything faster than walk! Rearing (front feet just off ground, but unsettling none the less) only happens when having 'one of those days'.

Sorry this is really long again, but NR advice is invaluable to me, and it has to be long to make situation clear!

thanks again for your advice guys- keep it coming please!

Claire