Banning Dog Breeds, your thoughts and opinions

[newforest]

Found that image online and it's so true.

It's not the dog that's the issue imo, it's those who breed without a thought on the temperament, training and time needed to train, socialize a dog.

If you remove the xl bully, these same people will go on and choose another breed.
And so the cycle continues.

 

[carthorse]

Oh it certainly isn't the dogs!

Some breeds do need more work to train them well, but that should be a factor considered before buying them. I don't think the bully breeds necessarily fall into that group, most of the ones I've known want to please and so are fairly easy to train - but a dog that's easy to train is easily trained into bad/dangerous behaviour too. It's not even the breeders that I really blame, a dog can be bred with care and have a good nature but wrong training will still produce a "bad" dog. Maybe we should stop worrying about the dogs that are bred and instead regulate the humans?

 

[newforest]

We get so many adverts for horses for sale that say lack of time forces sale. However you can leave a horse in a field.
But if you lack time, skill and knowledge to take on and train a puppy, then do not get ANY puppy.
Any dog can be a predator and a problem.

We have issues with dogs killing sheep, because people do not know how to control the dog, train the dog. Or they do not care what their dogs do.

II think it will be worse since the lockdown as so many people cashed in on breeding, as people were at home.
Now those same people three years on have a dog they want, or something out of control.

 

[Huggy]

The trouble is that each breed has characteristics bred into it. Retrievers labradors and spaniels are bred to retrieve - its in their dna. Collies are bred to herd, Jack Russell's to hunt vermin etc etc. As opposed to dobermans, shepherds, rottweilers and the like, bred to guard and protect, these bully types are bred to attack and kill. Again, its in their dna. I hate the thought of innocent dogs being put to sleep, but I'd rather that than more and more of these fatal attacks. They are a weapon, as much as a knife or a gun.

 

[PePo]

I'm on the fence.

Bully XL's are bred from pitbulls, which some have been specifically bred for their aggression.

Whilst I do agree the owner generally maketh the dog, if you've bred something that is genetically predisposed to aggression, it becomes harder to harder to produce a well rounded dog (even if inclined to do so).

I have a reactive dog and there is only do much training I can do. He'll always be pre-disposed to being reactive (not my opinion but the opinion of professional dog behaviourists) and I can't ever see myself trusting him in some situations. When you substitute reactive for aggression, it becomes more frightening for all concerned and I'm certainly not looking to have a dog as a status symbol or protection or whatever other reason. I want a well-rounded dog!

I think there needs to be a multi-pronged approach including better screening and licensing of all dog owners regardless of breed.

But, when you have children being mauled by a dog when playing on their drive or a full grown man being dragged across the ground whilst walking their own, I can't honestly say the dog's shouldn't be disposed of.

There's a bigger cause and effect, of course, but I do think something needs to be done in the short term for the protection of the general public.

 

[Ellenrit]

With all the unwanted dogs needing loving homes I simply cannot condone breeding. It is all about the money.

 

[newforest]

I'm on the fence.

Bully XL's are bred from pitbulls, which some have been specifically bred for their aggression.

Whilst I do agree the owner generally maketh the dog, if you've bred something that is genetically predisposed to aggression, it becomes harder to harder to produce a well rounded dog (even if inclined to do so).

I have a reactive dog and there is only do much training I can do. He'll always be pre-disposed to being reactive (not my opinion but the opinion of professional dog behaviourists) and I can't ever see myself trusting him in some situations. When you substitute reactive for aggression, it becomes more frightening for all concerned and I'm certainly not looking to have a dog as a status symbol or protection or whatever other reason. I want a well-rounded dog!

I think there needs to be a multi-pronged approach including better screening and licensing of all dog owners regardless of breed.

But, when you have children being mauled by a dog when playing on their drive or a full grown man being dragged across the ground whilst walking their own, I can't honestly say the dog's shouldn't be disposed of.

There's a bigger cause and effect, of course, but I do think something needs to be done in the short term for the protection of the general public.

The Pitbull is banned, so it shouldn't have ever been bred from that.
They have found a loop hole, if it's a Pitbull cross then?

 

[Bodshi]

I saw a really good post on FB that made complete sense. Kind of the opposite of the one you posted @newforest, but in the end it does come down to the human. Let me see if I can find it. It's basically what @Huggy says.

 

[Bodshi]

Katie-Jayne Musgrove

For those who believe we are not true animal lovers because we don’t all rush to vehemently defend a dog breed citing the line that I’m sure you’ve all heard many times before

“iT’s AlL aBoUt HoW yOu RaIsE tHeM”

It is not. At all. How you raise them (nurture them) is only a very small part of it, the HUGE part is about what they are, (their nature). Their genetic make up. What they were bred to do. Nature vs. Nurture.

The fact is that different breeds were developed for different reasons. We have all different types of dogs known for a variety of different things. We have herding breeds, guarding breeds, gun dogs, sight hounds, our scent hounds, companion dogs etc etc. All of the dogs within these groups were bred for a purpose. Whether that be our Cavalier King Charles Spaniel which was bred to be lap dog and is of course a companion dog or our German Shepherd Dog which belongs to our guarding group and was bred to herd and guard livestock, their breeds were developed specifically for a reason.

Now let’s look at the breed that is hot topic at the moment. The XL Bully. After yet another vicious attack on a child by an XL Bully, there is call for the breed to be banned. I say ‘breed’ very loosely because they are actually traditionally a mix of the already banned Pitbull Terrier, the American Bulldog and the English Bulldog but the XL Bullies of late are made up of lord knows what. Commonly there is Presa Canario (guarding) and Cane Corso (guard dog, war dog and skilled hunter) also thrown in the mix to create these huge, imposing, genetic disasters that we (in the UK) now know as the XL Bully.

The people that are breeding these dogs generally are not at all interested in the health or temperament of the dogs they’re producing since it is size and colour that sells. Therefore these dogs are just thrown together without a second thought for the outcome. The outcome very often is completely unbalanced, genetically modified dog that has been bred simply to be the biggest they can be with no onus put on their health, their joints are also f*cked meaning they often live in pain making them bombs literally waiting to go off. These are the dogs that are the issue.

And then we come to the people that own them. If you are looking specifically for the meanest, biggest, baddest looking dog and you’re not bothered about the health or the temperament of said dog then you’re just as much of a d1ck as the people that are breeding them.

So you take these dogs that have the potential to be completely unhinged and you put them in the hands of someone who simply wants a status symbol and you might as well have just handed them an AK47 because they won’t take the time to research and understand the dog they’ve got. They will regularly spout that it is in how you raise them, they will have no boundaries and they will walk these dogs off lead completely ignoring the fact that they have a dog that is GENETICALLY pre disposed to aggression.

You wouldn’t take a border collie and walk it through a field of sheep and then wonder why it is herding them. You know that they are doing it because regardless of whether they’ve ever seen a sheep before in their lives it is inherent. It is in their genes and this is no different.

The XL Bully in the wrong hands is a weapon and until we start cracking down on the breeders and putting consequences on the owners who allow these dogs to go out and attack innocent people there will be no end to it.

If they ban the Bully, another breed will come along, and another and another. If you want to own a large and potentially dangerous dog you must be held accountable when things go wrong. Handle them with care, put the time in to them, undertake specialist training, give them an outlet, learn how to own one safely and you’ve nothing to fear and you’ll end up with a really lovely dog. Be a dick and ignore your dogs breed traits, show them no respect, don’t take any special measures when nurturing them then you might as well just take your AK47 and open fire basically.

I had to get that off my chest. I am done arguing with people about it.

Over and out

 

[Huggy]

Katie-Jayne Musgrove

For those who believe we are not true animal lovers because we don’t all rush to vehemently defend a dog breed citing the line that I’m sure you’ve all heard many times before

“iT’s AlL aBoUt HoW yOu RaIsE tHeM”

It is not. At all. How you raise them (nurture them) is only a very small part of it, the HUGE part is about what they are, (their nature). Their genetic make up. What they were bred to do. Nature vs. Nurture.

The fact is that different breeds were developed for different reasons. We have all different types of dogs known for a variety of different things. We have herding breeds, guarding breeds, gun dogs, sight hounds, our scent hounds, companion dogs etc etc. All of the dogs within these groups were bred for a purpose. Whether that be our Cavalier King Charles Spaniel which was bred to be lap dog and is of course a companion dog or our German Shepherd Dog which belongs to our guarding group and was bred to herd and guard livestock, their breeds were developed specifically for a reason.

Now let’s look at the breed that is hot topic at the moment. The XL Bully. After yet another vicious attack on a child by an XL Bully, there is call for the breed to be banned. I say ‘breed’ very loosely because they are actually traditionally a mix of the already banned Pitbull Terrier, the American Bulldog and the English Bulldog but the XL Bullies of late are made up of lord knows what. Commonly there is Presa Canario (guarding) and Cane Corso (guard dog, war dog and skilled hunter) also thrown in the mix to create these huge, imposing, genetic disasters that we (in the UK) now know as the XL Bully.

The people that are breeding these dogs generally are not at all interested in the health or temperament of the dogs they’re producing since it is size and colour that sells. Therefore these dogs are just thrown together without a second thought for the outcome. The outcome very often is completely unbalanced, genetically modified dog that has been bred simply to be the biggest they can be with no onus put on their health, their joints are also f*cked meaning they often live in pain making them bombs literally waiting to go off. These are the dogs that are the issue.

And then we come to the people that own them. If you are looking specifically for the meanest, biggest, baddest looking dog and you’re not bothered about the health or the temperament of said dog then you’re just as much of a d1ck as the people that are breeding them.

So you take these dogs that have the potential to be completely unhinged and you put them in the hands of someone who simply wants a status symbol and you might as well have just handed them an AK47 because they won’t take the time to research and understand the dog they’ve got. They will regularly spout that it is in how you raise them, they will have no boundaries and they will walk these dogs off lead completely ignoring the fact that they have a dog that is GENETICALLY pre disposed to aggression.

You wouldn’t take a border collie and walk it through a field of sheep and then wonder why it is herding them. You know that they are doing it because regardless of whether they’ve ever seen a sheep before in their lives it is inherent. It is in their genes and this is no different.

The XL Bully in the wrong hands is a weapon and until we start cracking down on the breeders and putting consequences on the owners who allow these dogs to go out and attack innocent people there will be no end to it.

If they ban the Bully, another breed will come along, and another and another. If you want to own a large and potentially dangerous dog you must be held accountable when things go wrong. Handle them with care, put the time in to them, undertake specialist training, give them an outlet, learn how to own one safely and you’ve nothing to fear and you’ll end up with a really lovely dog. Be a dick and ignore your dogs breed traits, show them no respect, don’t take any special measures when nurturing them then you might as well just take your AK47 and open fire basically.

I had to get that off my chest. I am done arguing with people about it.

Over and out

I agree with so much of this except that if they're banned, another one will come along. That's true, but in the meantime maybe we'll all be a little safer with these things off the streets. Holding someone accountable when their dog has killed a child, a pet or an adult is pie in the sky, and no use to those left to deal with the aftermath.

 

[newforest]

Katie-Jayne Musgrove

For those who believe we are not true animal lovers because we don’t all rush to vehemently defend a dog breed citing the line that I’m sure you’ve all heard many times before

“iT’s AlL aBoUt HoW yOu RaIsE tHeM”

It is not. At all. How you raise them (nurture them) is only a very small part of it, the HUGE part is about what they are, (their nature). Their genetic make up. What they were bred to do. Nature vs. Nurture.

The fact is that different breeds were developed for different reasons. We have all different types of dogs known for a variety of different things. We have herding breeds, guarding breeds, gun dogs, sight hounds, our scent hounds, companion dogs etc etc. All of the dogs within these groups were bred for a purpose. Whether that be our Cavalier King Charles Spaniel which was bred to be lap dog and is of course a companion dog or our German Shepherd Dog which belongs to our guarding group and was bred to herd and guard livestock, their breeds were developed specifically for a reason.

Now let’s look at the breed that is hot topic at the moment. The XL Bully. After yet another vicious attack on a child by an XL Bully, there is call for the breed to be banned. I say ‘breed’ very loosely because they are actually traditionally a mix of the already banned Pitbull Terrier, the American Bulldog and the English Bulldog but the XL Bullies of late are made up of lord knows what. Commonly there is Presa Canario (guarding) and Cane Corso (guard dog, war dog and skilled hunter) also thrown in the mix to create these huge, imposing, genetic disasters that we (in the UK) now know as the XL Bully.

The people that are breeding these dogs generally are not at all interested in the health or temperament of the dogs they’re producing since it is size and colour that sells. Therefore these dogs are just thrown together without a second thought for the outcome. The outcome very often is completely unbalanced, genetically modified dog that has been bred simply to be the biggest they can be with no onus put on their health, their joints are also f*cked meaning they often live in pain making them bombs literally waiting to go off. These are the dogs that are the issue.

And then we come to the people that own them. If you are looking specifically for the meanest, biggest, baddest looking dog and you’re not bothered about the health or the temperament of said dog then you’re just as much of a d1ck as the people that are breeding them.

So you take these dogs that have the potential to be completely unhinged and you put them in the hands of someone who simply wants a status symbol and you might as well have just handed them an AK47 because they won’t take the time to research and understand the dog they’ve got. They will regularly spout that it is in how you raise them, they will have no boundaries and they will walk these dogs off lead completely ignoring the fact that they have a dog that is GENETICALLY pre disposed to aggression.

You wouldn’t take a border collie and walk it through a field of sheep and then wonder why it is herding them. You know that they are doing it because regardless of whether they’ve ever seen a sheep before in their lives it is inherent. It is in their genes and this is no different.

The XL Bully in the wrong hands is a weapon and until we start cracking down on the breeders and putting consequences on the owners who allow these dogs to go out and attack innocent people there will be no end to it.

If they ban the Bully, another breed will come along, and another and another. If you want to own a large and potentially dangerous dog you must be held accountable when things go wrong. Handle them with care, put the time in to them, undertake specialist training, give them an outlet, learn how to own one safely and you’ve nothing to fear and you’ll end up with a really lovely dog. Be a dick and ignore your dogs breed traits, show them no respect, don’t take any special measures when nurturing them then you might as well just take your AK47 and open fire basically.

I had to get that off my chest. I am done arguing with people about it.

Over and out

Yes once again it's us that have decided to cross two different breeds together and hope for the best, but out comes the worst.

 

[Skib]

My parents were given a wire haired fox terrier as a wedding present. They were very modish in the 1930s. I grew up, as a toddler playing wth that dog right beside me. He walked with me, my mother and the pram to the village to do the shopping 5 mornings a week, I didnt realise, and nor I think did my parents, how carefully trained that dog had been before being given to them. We threw balls down the long lawn for him to fetch and he brought them back.

When he eventually died, they bought another wire haired fox terrier. He remained pretty much un walked and un trained. He had a wire run to charge up and down. Their final dog was a poodle.
My OH hates dogs, but if I am ever widowed, I would buy and train a male wire haired fox terrier. We walked our daughter's well trained Irish terrier this morning about two and a half miles and she was good as gold.
Of course I would really like a Saluki or lurcher, but they need more running than an old woman can provide.

 

[newforest]

My parents were given a wire haired fox terrier as a wedding present. They were very modish in the 1930s. I grew up, as a toddler playing wth that dog right beside me. He walked with me, my mother and the pram to the village to do the shopping 5 mornings a week, I didnt realise, and nor I think did my parents, how carefully trained that dog had been before being given to them. We threw balls down the long lawn for him to fetch and he brought them back.

When he eventually died, they bought another wire haired fox terrier. He remained pretty much un walked and un trained. He had a wire run to charge up and down. Their final dog was a poodle.
My OH hates dogs, but if I am ever widowed, I would buy and train a male wire haired fox terrier. We walked our daughter's well trained Irish terrier this morning about two and a half miles and she was good as gold.
Of course I would really like a Saluki or lurcher, but they need more running than an old woman can provide.

What are your thoughts and views about the banning of dogs? That's what this thread is talking about, more specifically the dog that's been in the news.

 

[Huggy]

The sad thing about all of this is the fear that people are beginning to feel about something that should be a joy and relaxing - walking their dogs. About 3 miles from us a chap had his little dog mauled by an xl Bully on Friday. The dog survived, but I talked to a lady in the forest yesterday who said that was her last walk with her dog in the forest. She's an older lady with a little mongrel Terrier that she always has on a long leash. She doesn't feel safe in an environment where dogs are off the lead, so will pavement walk, where she feels she has more chance of seeing trouble coming, and can dive into a garden or house. What a shame. Mind you, there was a vicious little jack Russel around a couple of years ago in our inclosure - tore a hole in Alfie's ear, and injured a few dogs - difference was a hefty kick dislodged him, it wouldn't have shifted one of these monsters

 

[Jessey]

I don’t think you can just ban a breed and think that will solve the problem. It needs to be a multi pronged approach, there should be licensing for dog ownership again, as part of that they should be educated on welfare and training requirements and their legal responsibilities. Then any person seen using a dog, any dog, to intimidate should cautioned and be given a ASBO in the first instance (yes they do exist and can tell the owner things like the cannot be loose in a public place, or must be muzzled) then charged for possession of an offensive weapon if it happens again or if there is any breach, before it escalates into an attack. And a dog that attacks a person unprovoked should be put down (I hate it but unless we are going to create dog prisons what else can you do) but when that happens the owner should also be charged.

From a police perspective I know it can be very difficult to prove someone’s intent with a dog, it’s very hard to prove improper training or even negligence.

Perhaps as part of the licensing owners should have to complete tests, our SAR dogs have to go through various tests before they are permitted to work in public, proving they are sufficiently trained to be trusted, not all of them qualify.

 

[newforest]

I agree you can't just ban a dog.

I sound like a parrot - hands.
A knife or a gun is a weapon in the wrong hands. You need a license (though those aren't fail safe)

It's going to be the innocent that suffer as per the norm.
Any dog that gets into a fight with another should be put down. Why would you want that in your home.
Why let yours off the lead knowing it's likely to or will attack another dog.

 

[Jessey]

Any dog that gets into a fight with another should be put down.

I don’t agree with this, dogs fight sometimes, it can be over food, or hormones, or a toy. Sometimes dogs live together for years then something little changes and there’s a fight, a one off, never to happen again. That’s like deeming a horse dangerous for having a fight with a field mate over hay.

 

[Huggy]

As a species, we are extremely adept at making other species extinct, albeit accidentally sometimes. I don't think all xl Bully types should be euthanized, but all existing dogs should be neutered/spayed, and muzzles worn at all times outside. There are 3 adverts on gumtree, within 5 miles of my postcode selling xl puppies, or rather 2 selling xl, one selling xl crossed with a rottweiler (won't that be a cuddly, harmless little addition to the family!) I find that very disturbing. The only way to stop cross breeding and creating another monster dog, is to render the breed incapable of procreation. Banning them will never be entirely successful, but it will reduce numbers.

 

[carthorse]

@newforest I don't agree that any dog that gets in a fight with another should be pts, you need to look at context. Was the dog attacked and defending itself? Was the dog protecting it's owner? Many years ago I was walking my dad's dog in the dark after work, he was off lead in a field because he had good recall and no history of trouble when out. Another dog came over and threatened me, not listening to it's owner who then was also getting very close trying to catch it and get it on a lead. My dad's springer came bowling silently out of the dark, bowled over the bigger dog and had it pinned to the floor with his teeth at it's throat - would you say that was pts behaviour? I called him off as the owner got close enough to his dog to catch it as it was released. mine came straight to heel where he stayed until we left the field, the whole time he was on guard against the man and his dog. Yes mine "attacked" the other dog, but only to guard me and no physical damage was done apart from to my coat by the other dog just before mune moved in.

 

[newforest]

I don’t agree with this, dogs fight sometimes, it can be over food, or hormones, or a toy. Sometimes dogs live together for years then something little changes and there’s a fight, a one off, never to happen again. That’s like deeming a horse dangerous for having a fight with a field mate over hay.

Sorry maybe I should have clarified I meant out of the home in a public place with another dog.
Not just a bite, looking back at how those police horses were attacked.
It should be law that it's then muzzled, on a lead or put down.