Becoming a Scottish Newrider & some horse thoughts

JOJOBA

Fluffy Bunny, apparently
Im moving to Edinburgh in September for uni :) so I will be half joining the Scottish lot. Ive accepted the place and now I just have a few months to sit and panic about it.

Dont even ask about Jack, I really have no idea. I suppose I should put him on some waiting lists soon, but I am a bit lost :(.

On the upside the Physiotherapist was quite thrilled with him, she said his movement is loads better, feeling him is like a different horse - there's no tension and hardly anything left for her to work on. He's allowed to start ridden work now to build him back up, but we have to be prepared for him broncing, especially for the first couple of weeks. If it persists longer than 3 weeks or so she'll need to come and have another session.

When I went away to Edinburgh last week I left him at 'Boot Camp' with my instructor. The day before Id spent my entire lesson sunbathing against a wall, having been told to 'perhaps get out of the way' as Jack went backwards at high speed on the lunge :rolleyes:, and then went off on one for about 8 circuits having a tantrum (all because he'd been asked to change direction and didnt want to). He had lots of interesting things to say about him when I came back, which tallied very well with my own thoughts on him (which means perhaps Im a bit more perceptive than I thought).

  • He's deeply untrusting in lots of ways
  • He's very unpredictable
  • He has a real issue with his Right side and having you in his right eye
  • He's very spooky
  • He has no 'middle ground' - he's either a sleepy donkey or he's going completely OTT and flipping out
  • He's extremely difficult to desensitise - one day he'll let you run up to him and rub him all over with a lunge whip, another day bringing one into the school will provoke him to gallop round for about 20 circuits
  • He tolerates the presence of humans but really wishes you'd just go away
  • He's an 'onion' (or a funny onion, according to one of the staff :p). Every time you work with him you peel away a layer and there's something new underneath. We want to know what's in the middle :eek:.
  • He has a 'happy place' where he sets his head, switches off and behaves perfectly. When even the slightest thing goes wrong he's out of it instantly, broncing and shooting off (he was in it when I bought him).
  • The broncing possibly developed as a spooking thing - when he spooks he takes off. Ridden he probably got held back and learnt to bronc, lose the rider, and then be free to take off.

RI worked with him every day and said he made progress in terms of Jack now changing direction without fuss etc, but we still arent getting any closer to desensitising him, getting him to trust us etc.
He follows me round now at liberty, I can walk him through hoops without any contact and I can stop him and change his direction etc. However there is no doubt in my mind that if he decided to spook he would flatten me without a second thought. When I last freeschooled him he spooked at nothing and galloped 8 circuits round our indoor school, completely oblivious to my presence. I tried to step across him to stop him but thought better of it and hastily moved when it became apparent he wasnt going to stop :p. It's like when he spooks everything vanishes for him and he just gets so worked up and wound up that he flies round, then he gets himself back under control and goes back to perfect behaviour (remember how when he first started acting up ridden I said it was like a switch? Perfect, then he'd switch and go into rodeo mode for AGES, until RI would manage to get his attention back and he'd click out of it and trot on like the last 5 mins hadnt happened and be perfect again for the rest of the lesson?).

RI thinks that as well as missing some stages in his ridden work he has missed a huge chunk in his handling, or has been given a reason at some point why humans cant be trusted. He has a 'veneer' (is that how you spell it?) which he puts on of being totally calm and laid back, but if he feels under pressure the veneer doesnt just crack, it explodes quite spectacularly!
When working with him we have to find a balance, between backing off him and treading on eggshells, or accidentally pushing him too hard and spending the next 5mins stood in the middle whilst he goes flying round. Having only worked with totally laid back cobby horses who you could happily wrap up in a tarpaulin without any preparation, working with a horse who flies off the handle at a patch of suspicious grass is quite a learning curve for me. I was telling Bay Mare that my reactions are much improved ;).

He may be getting ridden this week - last time he got about 10ft before trying to bronc, so everyone keep your fingers crossed that this week we will make 20ft :rolleyes:. I am going to keep my fingers crossed that he will be a totally perfect equine citizen and give his mum a day off ;).

Next time I am going to have a psychiatrist evaluate my horse before I bring it home ;)

And just so Im not too downbeat, Im very pleased with his manners in the stable now. He's very respectful of me (just me, he still doesnt like other people - but it's a start). As many of you know I have a real bee in my bonnet about good manners. My horse now steps back when I open his stable door and lets me in. He stands still to be rugged, picks his feet up without fuss, and waits whilst I put up haynets and doesnt start eating them until Ive secured them and told him he can have it. He never bites at me anymore (though he sometimes still clicks his teeth), and never ever headbutts anymore. He also likes to touch my face all over with his whiskers when Im stroking him, and shuts his eyes. He lifts his legs to ask me to stretch them. If I stamp my foot he takes two steps back out of my space and turns his head away (I stamp my foot when he's getting too in my face). If I tell him off he goes and stands quietly at the back of his stable and lets me leave and lock the door before coming to the front again (even though he's itching to run to the front as I leave - one of his main problems when I got him was him racing you to the front of the stable then leaning on the door and refusing to step back so you were trapped! And if you were between him and the door then he'd just squish you.). He doesnt overtake me anymore - in the stable or out and about in hand. A lot of them need fine tuning because he sometimes forgets himself or tries to push it, but we now have a much less stressful stable relationship and he even sometimes asks me for cuddles, as opposed to backing away with his ears back as soon as you try to touch him.
Funny onion.

Well Svenja - you did ask!

xxx
 
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Well done with your Uni place :D thats great news.
TBH it sounds like alot of good news with jack too, you are making real progress to understanding him and getting along with him much better and also fixing his problems along the way, OK so there are still a few creases to be ironed out, but no doubt you will get there, its just a learning curve for both of you :D

J x
 
Well Svenja - you did ask!

xxx

I did indeed! and I never get bored of a jack update....:D

It sounds like you're doing amazing work- never mind getting a horse shrink out next time round, I think you'd make a fortune if you decided to pursue a career in equine psychiatry....
and at least he's starting to trust you!

Have you been in touch with the previous owners at all? Or have they done a runner to Mexico or somewhere similarily out of reach, having safely offloaded him onto you?
 
Dont really want to contact his last owner... I do think he was offloaded (Im an offloader's dream - never get rid of dodgy animals and spend sleepless nights trying to work out what to do with them) on to me, there are a LOT of things I wasnt told about him. His last owner only had him a couple of months so he may have been perfect with her, but I spoke to the owner before that and she was well aware of his broncing problem and had told the next owner about it. Knowing that I was a nervous rider who needed a safe, reliable horse, they really should have mentioned it!!! But benefit of the doubt (ha) and all that...
I dont see what good could be done by contacting the last owner, except possibly just having a rant (which doesnt count as 'good' and I would feel bad about it because I know what it's like to have your lovely new horse turn crazy...). The owner before though was very nice and I am considering contacting her to have his vet records sent on to see what was picked up in his previous investigations... but then Id have to tell her how he was behaving and she was upset to sell him, and worried he'd been sold on, and she's pregnant (or just had a baby). No-one should go round upsetting pregnant women :rolleyes:.


xxx
 
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you're probably right... and if it makes you feel better, I'm an offloader's dream too (in fact my whole family is, which is why I spent my last summer holidays bottle feeding a baby badger- every three hours...:rolleyes: )

Yes, unleashing a pregnant woman onto the people who sold him to you may be an idea...:p When my sister in law was pregnant, she had a dispute with the builders that ended up in the work being completed perfectly, in record time.... I think they feared for their life!

It's good that you have some idea about his past homes though, and previous vet record may be a great idea. and I know this isn't going to be much comfort, but after this one, no horse will be too much of a challenge for you... not sure if I'd put yuo in the "nervous" category these days- you wouldn't have stuck it like you did otherwise.

You looking forward to Edinburgh?
 
Im still nervous, but unfortunately the option of running away and hiding, or backing off, has been taken away from me :p. I have no choice but to get the roller on him, clip on some longreins, then stand in the middle and stick it out. I do find Im much less scared of other horses that I ride now though!

Very much looking forward to Edinburgh, yes :). Im going to be attending the School of Divinity, which is a bit like Hogwarts :p


xxx
 
I don't post much about Jack - I have no useful advice to give you (cos I don't know much :p :eek: ). But I have really enjoyed hearing this update.

What struck me about this post Jo was all the stuff about Jack in his stable. You really have achieved a lot with him. I have a wonderful picture of a very soppy Jack with his eyes shut stroking you with his whiskers whilst you stroke him! Gave me a warm fuzzy feeling :)

I'm sure you will succeed with him in the end.

Edinburgh sounds exciting. I love that city.
What are you studying?
 
[*]He has a real issue with his Right side and having you in his right eye
[*]He's very spooky

Does he have any reason to be like this on the right side?? Have you had his eyes checked, i used to look after a horse like that, and turned out he freaked out because he was half blind in the eye he hated people being at.
Leah
 
Jo - I've probably given you all the insight that I've got but grab hold of 'E' next time she's up and ask her thoughts on things. She works as a behaviourist and I'm sure would be happy to give you her perspective on things.

Just one thought ... if he has issues trusting it may be worth limiting who he comes into contact while you build up his trust. I know that D does the ridden work but can't remember whether anyone else has any input into him apart from you. If there are too many people dealing with him he may be finding it a bit overwhelming.

He's gorgeous though and you've made great progress with him. Many people would have given up a long time ago. Well done :)

Have you got him on calmag or something? Again I can't remember what you said. It isn't going to change his basic character but may help to take the edge off his spookiness.
 
Does he have any reason to be like this on the right side?? Have you had his eyes checked
His eyes were checked at his vetting and were fine. I did consider that his sight might not be correct but he spooks at things on his right side as well as his left, and he reacts to things on the right.
My mum is an opthalmic nurse and she has had a look and thought it was fine, but if his behaviour doesnt get any better on the right I will have his vision looked at properly.
I think it's more of a trust issue.

xxx
 
Ive got some NAF Magic Calmer (magnesium) but not put him on it yet. Maybe now would be a good time to start...

In terms of people working with him its just me and D really, my mum is really scared of him but she's trying to overcome it, so she sometimes lunges him. Occasionally when I cant make it up or D isnt free one of the members of staff who really likes him will longrein him for me. But no-one else has anything to do with him. So just the 4 of us really, and 90% of the time just me and D.

I spoke briefly to E last time she was up but she just said she thought he looked nice (everyone thinks that, he's so good at tricking people). I mentioned that I knew you and went to say hello but we didnt chat much.

xxx
 
Get him on that magnesium! It really does take the edge off their behaviour and as it's being so successful in our area it's a good bet that it will work for him too. It's not going to turn him into a plod but if he is deficient it will take the edge off the spooks. If that works consider getting some calmag as it's cheaper :)
 
Hi,

It sounds like you've made excellent progress with the stable manners - I'd agree with Bay Mare about the number of people you have working with/handling him; it's really only since I've been a DIY-er that I feel I've gained my horse's trust and been able to ask that little bit more of him, and it's taken a looong time to get there, so don't give up!

What sort of feed does he get? Is there anything in there that might make him a little bit "fizzy"?

Good luck on the move to Edinburgh!!

:)
 
If you're thinking of going down the route of calming supplements - they can work, but you may have to shop around; I've tried ones that other folk have recommended, only to find they've had no effect whatsoever on my horse!
 
Hi Jo,

Please to hear about Uni, well done, sounds interesting!

If you think there are parts missing from Jacks education, why not get him on some calmer, and then start to treat him like an utterly green unbacked horse?

That way you can rewrite his education (please forgive me if I'm going over old ground now)

Pleased to hear that your reactions are getting faster, think of it is an education!

Also can we have some more pictures of him, after all he is very pretty!

x
 
Congrats on your place at Edinburgh :D It sounds like you really are making progress with Jack. I suppose it will be getting him to realise that his back isn't sore now, as he might just anticipate that it is. Best of luck when it comes to riding him :) Sounds like he is a right gentleman in the stable now- well done! Fingers crossed he keeps on improving!

I agree with BayMare, try him on some Magnesium. It is actually pretty cheap stuff so worth a go imo :)
 
Good to have an update, and well done for sticking with this :) I hope that Jack comes to realise there *are* humans he can trust properly, and you should be top of his list!
The stuff you've said about right eye... I just read Kate Farmer's book and it had a lot to say about this. Could be worth having a look at her site for more info. Jack's response seems to be a very extreme example of what a lot of horses show more mildly. This page and the next section give a bit more detail, I've found it very helpful!
Best of luck Jo and also for uni, the course you've chosen sounds fascinating!
 
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