Behind the leg - any ideas

VickiGG

VickiGG

Vicki, Garbo & Blue
Mar 22, 2005
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Auckland, New Zealand
vickisggs.blogspot.com
Does anyone have any non agressive ideas for getting my horse off the leg. He can be very lazy or 'clever' and evades contact (opens mouth, canters instead of trots, gets tongue over bit - to name a few). He also bucks nearly every time I use the whip to reinforce my leg. I do use alot of leg!

I hate using the whip - my instructor had a real argument with him today and he got lots of hits with the whip everytime he tried to evade or buck.

He is sluggish and not a naturally forward horse. I would like to ask if anyone has used any ways that he will understand better what he needs to do. My RI says he is so clever that he has all sorts of tricks - she said he is the cleverest horse she has ever ridden.

Surely - I should be able to harness that and use it to my advantage?

I use a myler comfort snaffle which I was told by the supplier you cannot use a noseband with (to stop him opening his mouth). I don't like that idea much anyway.
 
I agree with palmer lover 52. Lots of transitions.
The RS horse I ride souns the same and I find i can wake her up and get her energised by walk/halts and trot/walk or even trot/ halts which I find works best.
Try and get a good tro for several paces and then a good halt then squeeze right back to trot and soon you'll find him/her much more alert and listening for your aids.

A
 
Vicki

what does he *like* doing ?

We have two "diesel" models at home - both belong to my mother.

With the older of the two, I recently found that asking for *softness* first made a massive difference. As he accepted the bit and softended through his back, he became more active, and more responsive. Use a whip on this chap and he gets worried and almost insulted :rolleyes: and it does NOT create any "go".

The other one has only been backed about 8 months now. If in doubt, she figures the safest thing is to stand still. She will respond to phases of pressure but also gets a bit miffed if you use it when she really doesn't understand what you are asking for.

With her we are looking for things to do where she will *offer* forward. For example, if we are riding together than I got mum to halt her pony while I trotted ahead maybe 20m. Then I halt and she trots to "fetch" me. Take a different heading/direction and repeat. I was on the other one with no-go and this exercise got him quite bouncy as well :p

It depends a bit on whether the underlying issue is a lack of "go", or a lack of "acceptance" ? if your guy offers canter rather than trot - this does sounds more like an acceptance issue than a "go" problem. So you might want to start from softness....

(and re noseband - if you "clamp" his face shut with a noseband the resistance is still there, its just not visable - you want to get rid of the resistance rather than just getting rid of the open mouth ;) )
 
Grady was like this, I used to do loads of transitions with him.

Walk to halt to walk to trott and walk to halt and all over again.

With regards to getting him to go from the leg it was a tough struggle, basically I would have to use pony club kicks instead of niggling as he was just ignoring me. I would squeeze once, kick twice and then I'm afraid it would have to be a tickle with the whip untill he was going forwards enough. This was normally accompanied with a buck aswell.

He did get alot better, I know how frustrating it is when you spend all your time trying to get the horse to go forwards....no sucj problems with Bryony if anything she's too forward going.
 
VickiGG said:
Does anyone have any non agressive ideas for getting my horse off the leg. He can be very lazy or 'clever' and evades contact (opens mouth, canters instead of trots, gets tongue over bit - to name a few). He also bucks nearly every time I use the whip to reinforce my leg. I do use alot of leg!

I hate using the whip - my instructor had a real argument with him today and he got lots of hits with the whip everytime he tried to evade or buck.

He is sluggish and not a naturally forward horse. I would like to ask if anyone has used any ways that he will understand better what he needs to do. My RI says he is so clever that he has all sorts of tricks - she said he is the cleverest horse she has ever ridden.

Surely - I should be able to harness that and use it to my advantage?

I use a myler comfort snaffle which I was told by the supplier you cannot use a noseband with (to stop him opening his mouth). I don't like that idea much anyway.
Click to expand...
Are you working on developing your relationship with him when you are on the ground as well as when you are riding? Do you talk to him when you are working around him - grooming, tacking up, mucking out? A friendly pat or hug or a scratch on the nose when you go past or into his stable and the occasional treat? Do you give him lots of praise when he gets things right?

Do you play games and teach him useful tricks like "stay" while you walk away - useful if you need him to stand without being held for hosing or in an emergency situation. Other useful tricks include teaching him to walk with you without being led and I'm sure you can think up lots of others which will be useful to you. It all helps to build a good relationship between you which in its turn can help to improve the schooling relationship - making him WANT to please you

I know it sounds a bit strange (and I frequently get laughed at) but I always say please and thank you to the WH because it reminds ME to treat HIM with respect as well as expecting it from him.
 
cvb - yes, I do think it is lack of acceptance rather than lack of go. In the forest he is full of energy! Think he gets a bit bored too so I have to try and remember to make his flat work more interesting for him - otherwise he just counts the revolutions round the arena and thinks he knows when will will be heading back to the stable (by actually trying to dive out at A).

Bobbin; I used to practice transitions at the markers - then he figured that out and did them without any aids. So I will have to make them at different places each and every time. Even on serpentines he figures out which way we are going to turn next. :rolleyes:

This picture is roughly the amount of contact I have (I have too soft hands according to some) normally
IMG_0011.jpg


but it was 4 months of constant pulling (on his behalf) to get to this stage of consistency with his head. Now my RI is asking for more roundness/contact - for his head to be looking down more - and it's like he is protesting very loudly. :)

This is my RI riding him
Jan2706wendi0001.jpg


cvb; Love the way you refer to them as diesel models! :D

What does he like doing? - likes going out to new places. Can be nappy if he is alone though. With other horses in the forest he is great. Don't need any additional aids!

sidesaddlelady1; yes, we do lots on the ground - lots of Kelly Marks stuff. Always talking to him - sure he thinks I'm nutty! Well if he doesn't the others at the yard must do. :) He gets lots of treats and always comes to me when I get him from the paddock. He does try really hard - I have a feeling he just doesn't like *this way* of asking him to try.
 
Vicki

does he like pole-work ? It could be that he is finding working more through his back to be "hard work" and hence is looking for a way out. But if you help him develop tummy and back muscles, it may become easier for him ?
 
cvb - you must have sensed my conversation with his equine therapist today! ;) He was having his monthly massage and I was mentioning this to her and she suggested trot poles for exactly that reason - so shopping trip tomorrow (some girls at the yard suggested we all go in and share them)....don't think they will fit in my Jeep though! :) and yes - he does like trot poles....this video is of him going over some grids including some poles - but if I has a little more contact I can see he would concentrate less on the jumps ahead and more on the poles at hand! Thanks :) (you can see one think he does with his head in this video too - he does it so much at times I get pulled forward so working on strengthening my position too) All fun!! :rolleyes:

http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VickiGG/?action=view&current=garbogrid.flv
 
Vicki

I can't see the videos as it requires an update to the software and in my second week at work I think I'd better not risk it... especially as I work in IT !!

If you are looking for ideas with poles - there is a Claire Lilley book on schooling with poles or look up some of the TTeam exercises
 
Hi, it's JJ here. What the others suggest is good. I had a mare who was very similar and I got taught to activate the leg by using the whip in a structured way i.e. ask once with a definate aid, if nothing happens, back it up with the whip. I found by practicing this from halt to walk and walk to trot, the canter required a lot less work in the end and there was none of what you described with RI. The trick is the immediate reward the moment they display the desired behaviour. The trot poles will help especially if they are placed at a distance where they have to lengthen there stride a little to reach them. It also shifts there focus and makes them lift there back - all good things. I can give you a hand with it if you like. Garbo is a smart cookie, we just have to find the right motivational tool!
 
thanks JJ. I am on a mission to buy some trot poles tomorrow! :)

Didn't ride today due to painful tooth procedure at dentist (1 and a half hours worth) and jaw still sore - but will practice transitions tomorrow and trot poles if I get them into my car! :confused:

Maybe I should dangle a carrot in front of his nose! :rolleyes:
 
excellent! I am doing a clinic on Saturday with Jenny Patterson... invited by Jools! :) but it finishes quite early (1pm) so we can do some stuff with D in the afternoon if you want. We need to use a halter and long rope though coz we made that mistake with Zazu tonight and she ran around a bit in her paddock bucking and lost a shoe! :rolleyes: Should have know there was a reason you have a halter on and long rope at the time! :)
 
I've been working on this in my lesson today - I have to say I'm pretty knackered but it seemed to work. What I've been working on is giving one firm squeeze, moving the reins forward and asking enthusiastically/energetically for trot and if no response giving a tickle with the whip on the shoulder. Once the horse was going, to keep it going and to keep the head up, we were working at keeping the inside leg on. When I got it right so did the horse so I would say its worth a try!
 
VickiGG said:
cvb - you must have sensed my conversation with his equine therapist today! ;) He was having his monthly massage and I was mentioning this to her and she suggested trot poles for exactly that reason - so shopping trip tomorrow (some girls at the yard suggested we all go in and share them)....don't think they will fit in my Jeep though! :) and yes - he does like trot poles....this video is of him going over some grids including some poles - but if I has a little more contact I can see he would concentrate less on the jumps ahead and more on the poles at hand! Thanks :) (you can see one think he does with his head in this video too - he does it so much at times I get pulled forward so working on strengthening my position too) All fun!! :rolleyes:

http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VickiGG/?action=view&current=garbogrid.flv
Click to expand...

Vicki - at home, so I finally got to watch the video. My immediate feeling is that you are riding "with the hand brake on" - its not so much about the rein length, but about the tension in your elbow and arm. So it could be that you are saying both "go" and "stop" at the same time, and the horse is reacting to that.

Taking the hand brake off does not mean you have to ride with washing line reins, or loose control. Its more about the softness and responsiveness in your arm and hand.

I think the horse may have got you into this - through some of the messing about with his head he does. You need to "own" your elbows, arms and hands more - rather than the horse owning them.

does that make sense ?
 
Oscar is quite lazy and transitions help, as does leg yielding, polework, and in particular a good gallop and working in more interesting environments. Also he is on high energy feed. I have to try not to just escalate my leg aids if he isnt listening, and nag, kicking on each stride. Instead I try to give a squeeze, if he doesnt answer, give a kick, if he doesnt respond to that, give a flick with the whip (if I do it hard he bucks, if soft, ignores it). RI sometimes gives him a wave with the lunge whip when he falls asleep in the school as well - genrally on a 20 or 15m circle, just as if we were lunging. That keeps him awake for a wee while.

I think that some horses find schooling very boring indeed. Varying your routine, particularly of he learns quicky seems to be essential. Can you school in different places, like mid hack, or in open fields? Oscar goes much better then, as he is anticipating a gallop!

I agree that you do look as if you are holding him back, not with pulling, but with ridgity, as I think was mentioned by previous poster. Possibly lengthening your reins but bringing your hands back, softening your elbows (sticking them right out for a while can help temporarily as it is difficult to maintain tension in this posistion) and arms, and keeping an elastic contact (but still a contact) may help. Make sure that your tension in your arms isnt also extending into your seat which would certainly combine to give a 'stop' aid.

Good luck!
 
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