Best way to manage a good doer on new summer grazing?

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PePo

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Jun 4, 2014
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Pete is a very good doer (I admit, he's looking in better condition than I'd like ...!) & he's currently off work at the moment, as I think he's tweaked something, which hasn't helped the ongoing battle of the bulge. The physio is coming to see him Wednesday, but until then he's had the last 2 weeks or so not doing a lot.

We were still on our winter grazing, but moved to our summer fields this weekend - hence my current dilemia!

He's muzzled in the day, has between 9-11 Ibs of soaked, rinsed and triple netted hay when stabled over night (broken up into an afternoon, evening and morning net). I know some people prefer to feed less hay, but he has been known to crib if left without anything so I try to never leave him without hay.

He gets two token feeds a day of literally a token amount of Allen & Page Fast Fibre, the recommended amount of Top Spec Lite balancer, magnesium & garlic - simply because the other horses are fed twice a day.

Today, was his first full day out in the new field & even with his muzzle on, he looked rather bloated when I got there tonight. He's was out from about 6.45am - 5.30pm.

Would you reduce this? I'm thinking of asking the YM to bring him in at lunch time? Or turn him out at lunch time? He much prefers being out to stuck in the stable ... But I don't want him to get laminitis.

A few people already think I'm mean in turning out with a muzzle & I think thought I was even meaner to reduce his grazing even further!
 
What style of muzzle have you got?

My boy eats zero in his which is equally frustrating. He's living out 24/7 atm and in no work due to ligament injury. He comes in for about 6 hours a day, gets one tiny feed and no hay but he's still put on about 15kg in a month or so :( soo frustrating isn't it?
 
This is a photo from the weekend, so you can get an idea of his current condition ... I know he is overweight, but without him being in work he seems to have balloned! The wet, mild winter hasn't helped - as he usually drops a bit of condition, which helps at this time of year ... But it just seems much harder this year!
 

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I use a Shires bucket style muzzle - he freaked out about the Greenguard muzzle. He managed to get stuck in his mouth, hockey gum shield style the first time he wore it, worked himself into a frenzy & tried to go through the field fencing ... I've never trusted him again with one!

He's fine with a bucket style though, thankfully!
 
He does look well!

I've managed my good doer native pony so far this summer with a combination of muzzling and managed grazing. He is out 24/7 but I do bring him in for a few hours sometimes with a haynet to get him off the grass (he is laminitic too).

Since you're on livery and can't easily set up a track or strip or other system to keep him on poor grass, I think you are doing what you can. Stick with the muzzle and triple netted soaked hay. Boys like yours and mine just need lots of work and it's a total a*se when they have tweaked something and can't be ridden to death!

If Pete is very prone to laminitis you might try to find out when the sugar in your grass is at its peak and get him off it then. It's hard to know, though.
 
Our girls come in between 1pm and 4pm and have hay in their boxes (not much!) and are turned back out later for a few hours. I also put them into the smaller paddocks with poor grazing for part of the day.
Neither are laminitic (touch wood) but one has Cushings which needs monitoring and the other inhales calories!!!! Its very hard - I am still lamenting the mild winter!!!
 
If you can't restrict his intake of grass by any other way than a muzzle I would slowly reduce the hay and replace with good barley straw until your having about half and half hay & straw. What should he weigh? The amount of hay he's getting sounds quite a lot too if that's what he's having while he's stabled (assuming that's either over night or during the day).
Also lose the hard feed, I know you say the others get fed twice a day but is there no way you could just give him a tiny token feed if he must have something? I don't know how much top spec is the recommended amount but if it's got anything in it other than vits/minerals it's adding calories even if it is lite.
As Jane said it's bloomin hard when you can't excersie - I feel for all of us with good doers.

Oh and try to grow a really thick skin when people tell you your mean/cruel whatever, end of the day you have to do whats best for your boy, he is lovely by the way. :)
 
I can't exercise my horse as she has ligament damage and she is now out 24/7. It's a bit late to be saying it now but I used winter to get the "worst" of the weight off her (she didn't get rugged too often and she only got an armful of hay overnight). She is now muzzled. Ideally I would only muzzle her during the day but even then she was putting on weight. She is now muzzled 24/7 We are on a cattle (beef) farm so the grass is unbelievably good. This time last year Rubic was about 100kg overweight (condition scoring a 4) and she wasn't in work because she had a sore back. She would have continued to pile on the weight if she hadn't injured herself and ended up on box rest and been on soaked hay. We are a sort of exceptional case because she cannot be exercised and so the only way for me to keep her weight in check is for her to be muzzled 24/7. We switch from a muzzle with the smallest hole to one I adapted with a larger hole each day so she isn't constantly totally restricted. I'm hoping the greenguard muzzle I've ordered will be a good compromise because it is slotted rather than a single hole. I also hope she'll find it more comfortable. Rubic does get a small feed each day, a couple of handfuls of simple systems fibre cubes and some of their lucie stalks with some yeasacc and I'm going to try her on some devils claw but because she is restricted it makes no difference. I don't work in lbs... When Rubic was stabled overnight she'd get about 3.5-4kg of soaked hay. For weightloss you want to feed 1.5% of their body weight in forage. Assume they are getting half when out during the day and that is how much you should feed overnight including hard feeds. I'd think about reducing the hay slightly and reduce the feed, as a "balancer" I feed equibites (dodson & horrell) as they seem to have a good balance of vitamins and minerals. I'd be tempted just to feed a handful of the fast fibre without the balancer as a token feed, I know what it is like when all the other horses are getting fed and yours isn't, Rubic used to kick the door until she got a bucket and it was a nightmare!
 
I sympathise with you as i have a lami pony. We have managed out 24/7 muzzled and I much prefer out than in! Shes out unmuzzled atm while she settles in with her new heard and yard are compensating by letting her out for a few hours then bringing her in for me. They have cut a field and are putting her out in a bigger heard and we will muzzle her from next week. I have the full yard on look out for a small person to ride her to work her and shes lunged every couple of day's.

I think its really difficult to try and manage ones that you cant ride for 1 reason or another. I think your taking the right measures to manage his weight though I would maybe try reduce his feed. Hes gorgeous
 
I would think that the amount of hay you are feeding is contributing to his weight. I would be tempted to keep him out 24/7 with the muzzle on and cut out the feed and hay altogether. You are counteracting any benefit of bring him off the grass by feeding him so much hay. If you do want him stabled with hay, I would be soaking it for at least 12 hours to remove all trace of sugar as rinsing it will only have minimal effect. I would also cut out all hard feed and if you want to give him something in a bucket, chop up a few vegetables and give them to him.

I wouldn't worry too much about the initial bloating from the grass. Most horses get this when they move onto new grazing. He actually doesn't look that bad to me in the picture. I have seen far fatter horses.
 
Thanks for all your suggestions :)

Sorry, I perhaps should have made it clearer that his hay is soaked for 10-12 hours, then rinsed (as it's been sat in it's own sugars, I guess it must absorb some ?!) & then triple netted. He literally never gets dried hay at the moment.

I've reduced the amount of hay down to 7-8Ibs now he's out in the new field. We'll see how he goes, with that. I'm hoping to reduce it again, but if he runs out, he does start cribbing.

He's bedded on straw, so I think he does have a munch. Can I literally put straw in a haynet for him?!

I'd love night turn out or 24/7 turn out, but it's not an option at our yard (& good yards with anything resembling turn out all year round, is a rarity in our area!) - nor, can I fence off any of the field. They essentially are turned out in a herd (mares & geldings separated) & that's that.

I've contemplated changing yards - but honestly, if I was to move, he'd be stuck in his stable from October-March or on individual turn out (& living on the New Forest until he was 5, he hates this - it's the reason I moved to our current yard).

It's SO hard balancing his physical needs against his emotional needs - I sometimes wish I didn't care about his emotional needs ...! Obviously, I don't mean that, but weighing everything up & trying to balance is tough.

I've had a chat with my YM and she's happy to bring him in at lunch, so I'll see his that goes with him. I'm hoping he'll be out long enough to feel he's played with his friends without getting too much opportunity to stuff himself with grass!

He's never had laminitis, but he's such a good doer, I'm trying to avoid him getting it. Having had a poor doer in the past, I though having a good doer would be easy ... How wrong was I?!
 
Pete's Mum if he's anything like my girl he will be eating his bed which will all be adding to the calorie count! Is there any way you could change to some other (non edible) bedding and yes you can put straw in his net, I was advised by my vet to do this when I first got Belle as she was very overweight.
How big is your lad? As Rubic said he should be getting a max of 1.5% of his body weight to lose weight and this includes everything he eats.
I think it's much harder to manage a good doer than a poor one :(
 
Don't think the straw will be adding too much of a problem. I use it in winter to keep my boy's furnace burning adlib rather than hay.
I think you're on an uphill battle to lose weight during summer. I try and stick with the natural way of the horse - they pile it on during the summer and slowly lose it during winter so I try and help in winter with straw adlib and only hay twice a day, no rug. If Flipo doesn't lose enough by spring, I'm pretty much screwed so I do go for a bit of damage limitation in terms of penning in overnight(our equivalent of stabling as he's out 24/7/365) and I ride, but our level of exercise will never be enough. I can't get him to accept a muzzle and tbh I hate the bloody things so when the vet told me to give up with that, I wasn't too upset.
 
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Flipo's Mum said:
Don't think the straw will be adding too much of a problem. I use it in winter to keep my boy's furnace burning adlib rather than hay.
I think you're on an uphill battle to lose weight during summer. I try and stick with the natural way of the horse - they pile it on during the summer and slowly lose it during winter so I try and help in winter with straw adlib and only hay twice a day, no rug. If Flipo doesn't lose enough by spring, I'm pretty much screwed so I do go for a bit of damage limitation in terms of penning in overnight(our equivalent of stabling as he's out 24/7/365) and I ride, but our level of exercise will never be enough. I can't get him to accept a muzzle and tbh I hate the bloody things so when the vet told me to give up with that, I wasn't too upset.
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He's certainly not pampered in the winter - he's was lightly clipped & rugless as much as he can be (he only wears no fill or lightweight in very bad rain) & I try to soak his hay until it freezes, then he has it dried.

The trouble is, with all the rain we had this wet & mild winter, he hasn't lost as much as I'd like him too, plus when we had to keep in from the flooding it was hard balancing enough hay to stop him from cribbing, with not so much he gets fat! It's been uphill battle all year really!

My barefoot trimmer came today - the good news, is she doesn't think his lameness/not being right is through laminitis. He literally came off the field and didn't have a pulse, nor is his feet showing the ridges that usually present. Plus, she has seen him fatter - when I first got him.

We did have a chat about the feed though, although she would usually really recommend TopSpec Lite - she wonders if it has too much vitamins & minerals in it, which had maybe pushed him over the balance - which may be presenting as low grade laminitis with no clinical signs. Apparently, another client of hers had the same thing happen.

We've decided to take him off it completely - as the 'not being right' coincided with the feed, when we worked it out. So, he's literally just going to get a token feed of Fast Fibre with magnesium oxide & salt.

The physio is coming at 5.30 - my trimmer did think it may be that his 'not being right' is shoulder related, so hopefully he's just jarred or tweaked himself.

If the physio can't find anything, my trimmer had suggested to take him off the grass completely and see how he looks in 5 days or so. If he's better, then maybe look at an hour out a day & build it up from there.

I'm keeping everything crossed the physio finds something!
 
Hope you didn't think I was suggesting he was too pampered mrs, just sympathising that its nigh on impossible to lose weight during the summer when you've got a good doer. Or maybe some will say I'm not trying hard enough! It was a very mild winter - I kept hoping for colder weather, much to my fieldmate's disgust! I was worried we wouldn't lose enough but thanks to a cheeky youngster noising up my horse all winter, flipo came into spring looking quite light -- he got a lot more exercise than he bargained for over the colder wetter months!
Hope it is just a twinge that the physio can help with. I had a lameness episode that panicked me but turned out just to having been a twinge he'd had in the field.
 
I feed my good doers - equibites - they are in small treat form so I don't have to feed anything if I don't want to. They are formulated to support good doers, and give them what they need being on restricted grazing. :)
 
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