Bit Advice

Flipo's Mum

Flipo's Mum

Heavy owner of a Heavy
Aug 17, 2009
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Perthshire, Scotland
Right. 15.2hh Belgian draft tank, very fat tongue, opens his mouth when he disagrees - mostly due to bad behaviour on my part (always trot/canter here). With a few half halts I can get him back and will be schooling more this year and exercising self discipline to get this under control.
He's currently in a loose ring waterford but I'd like a fixed cheek of some sort as when he does open his mouth, the bit slides through - and biscuits don't work, they end up in his mouth aswell.
I have tried to get a grackle noseband as a temporary fix but it's just not possible in his size (and I now have three wrong sized ones!)
This may sound stupid but I'm interested in trying something less harsh - ultimately because I'm wanting to ride with more of a contact to get Flipo moving and feel that the waterford isn't right for that. I will still keep the Waterford for certain rides but want to see if wearing something else might kick him out of the mouth opening habit. Maybe that's a daft idea on my part but got to give it a go!

Historically, the waterford has been a godsend for us as it helped with Flipo spooking and running and fits the shape of his mouth nicely. I now don't have the same spooking concerns anymore and feel its maybe a bit overkill.

All I know at this stage, is that he doesn't like a normal snaffle and takes a 6" bit so this limits us a tad. Any suggestions on what to try. Most important for me is mouth room. What would you put him in if you were me?
 
Definitely something double jointed, probably a wider center, so a French link or dog bone rather than a peanut type and if there isn't much space in his mouth don't go for a huge chunky bit.
Jess naffs off in a regular snaffle (single joint), I had the best from her in this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CS-BNWT-S...046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c3eb20f76
As it is fairly thin, has a wide dog bone, movement from the copper rings and the mix of metals she seemed to like. Jess has very little room in her mouth, a fat tongue and low pallet so she is better in a straight bar with a little curb action for brakes, or best of all, bitless. For dressage I use a myler comfort snaffle, I just cross everything she doesn't realise I've changed it before the end of the test as she just walks right through it at home.
 
If the bit slides through when he opens his mouth, its either too big or your contact with the rein shows he has set his neck as well?

What did you have before the Waterford?
 
I had similar issues with my big lad, tried lots of bits, the ones that suited him best were mullen mouth pelham, kimblewick and a hanging cheek ported mouth.
Now I have him bitless and he is much better than he was with a bit, no longer sets his neck so much.
 
I'm interested in that one Jessey the only thing is the loose ring element puts me off?! I'm not sure I can get similar with a fixed ring of some sort?

Really, he's never had the right sized bit in his mouth until the Waterford.
When I got him he was in a 5.5" full cheek French link. It was too small and he just ran through it. I tried a few but at that time we thought he was a 6.5" bit so I don think he was happy either way looking back a far too small to far too big. The equine dentist finally helped us with bit size and he's checked the Waterford bit size, it is slightly bigger (1/4") but that's because the Waterford has to wrap around the lips. i appreciate bits aren't going to sort our problems - schooling will, but while I'm doing that, I don't want something too heavy in his mouth.
 
Cross posted with you no angel! Are those not both harsher bits though? I guess harsher bits shouldn't also mean harsher hands - rather a harsher bit and less yanking but j genuinely feel he doesn't need the brakes as much these days. It's more a steering problem!
 
I've not seen it with full cheeks but I bet they are out there.
I use both mullen Pelham and kimblewick on jess, the Pelham particularly can be harsher but ridden with double reins its kinder on her mouth as I am predominantly riding on a mullen snaffle, the curb rein is just for 'excuse me' moments as required. I find a curb action more effective if they tend to set their neck.
Could you get a drop noseband if you cant find a grackle, they are more aimed at mouth opening than the grackle which is for jaw crossing.
 
Hebe has one of those - a Myler Comfort Snaffle - but hers has a hanging cheek. It's very well made, no sharp edges, double jointed and gives a very precise signal because the sides work indpendently. If you go to the Myler website, it gives a lot of information, and there's a lot of them on eBay at the moment, much cheaper. Oh, and they do come in 6"
 
I had a Myler, previous chap loved it, the cob hated it. She has a plain eggbutt, I personally didn't choose that as I "assumed" it wasn't as kind as the Frenchlink or the sweet iron I picked for her. But for her keep it simple don't faff, she is a bit black or white.

The thing with bitting FM is a bit is only harsh if its the wrong one for the horse or the hands behave harshly.
I am guessing your chap has one hell of a neck on him, if he is anything like mine its the neck that gets set and what's on the head isn't really important its what's going on inside it.
 
I haven't tried much for Ziggy except a French link snaffle of various kinds. He sets his neck against all of them, and his jaw sometimes too. I'll be interested to see what works for Flipo, FM.
 
Righto I now have a list of bits to try and some noseband considerations aswell. i was hoping you lot might narrow down my selection but instead I'm now presented with more ideas lol (not that I'm complaining mind!)
Im desperate to buy something but I'm going to be smart about this and not end up with fifteen new bits to furnish my cupboard. Bit bank here I come.
 
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Rockin s raised snaffle? Designed for horses with a thick tongue or low palate and apparently horses go very well in them. I think sjp has one for Tobes.
 
it would seem that my list is shortening very quickly based on the fact that not many come in 6" including the Rockin s KP :-(. But after last night when I asked for trot and wanted to bend right, but Flipo wanted to nap left (and homeword) I acknowledged that we will definitely be needing some extra help until I get him listening to me.
 
How do you find lunging and longreining?
I would be inclined to try that with a new bit as well. Mine used to lean and try to "bugger off" on one rein. The classic cob tuck your head in and ta ta mode. Once we set the ground rules that's its very rude to do that I can now lunge in a head collar.
 
I can't offer any advice on bits, but I do sometimes have the same problem with Ben setting his neck against me on the left rein. This is just naughty, nappy behaviour and he mainly does it when he thinks we are heading back to the yard from the field. He is a big strong horse (but not as big as Flippo) so when he sets his neck I do feel his full strength.

I have been doing lots of suppling exercises in the field to get him listening to to my leg more and this has really helped. Simple leg yeilding and shoulder in exercises have really improved the control I have over his neck. I'm not sure if this is because he is more supple as a result of the exercises, or because I am occupying his mind and making him think, but it has certainly worked and now when I feel him set his neck, I ask for shoulder in and regain all control.
 
I had a thin wilkie for Kia which worked well. Why not speak to someone about having a grackle or drop M2M,
 
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