Breed traits and looks

[MissMare]

I've been talking to a friend tonight who is hoping to breed from her Welsh D. Been talking about various other breeds and traits to get a great horse for her needs. Also, I just read a thread which mentioned Appaloosas as being sensitive and sharp. (I'm not saying that and don't want to upset anyone with quoting just fits what I was thinking earlier)

How much does the look of a horse go with it's traits. Welsh ponies were created because they were the outcome of survival from being abandoned thanks to Henry 8th. They only survived because they lived off little (thanks! We now as owners need muzzles) I can imagine the bolshiness comes from a need to survive and get by, there are other bits to them I can picture as being helpful in those surroundings.

Then there are Shetlands- again, big for their boots but as a survival mechanism, them being all nesh wouldn't work at all.

When Appys were mentioned, I can imagine them being spotty makes them stand out and they would need to be sharp to survive as they don't have the camouflage ability.

Aabs- again, there are traits that go back to what they need to do to survive.

I've ridden some lovely horses from all different breeds and met even more, and just wonder what the background of the breed has to do with the temperament.

And, now we as humans have got involved with the breeds, how has it changed things? For example, a Shetlands brains in a Shires body- humans wouldn't have a leg to stand on. (I love Shetlands btw, and not all are the same but they are a lot more opinionated than Shires).

I'm probably pointing out the obvious, or talking oop: and have had a drink so I'm on over thought mode but just wondered what anyone else thought?

 

[daftdraught]

Shetland brain shire body just get an Ardennes :giggle::wink:

 

[eml]

It is even more than breeds but individual sires and dams influence behaviour. I know some nutty Welsh D and some lovely Welsh D, same with other breeds.

If you breed a calm Welsh D with a calm TB of steeplechase type you will get a stunning eventer type, breed a scatty welsh, (there are a few!!) to a sharp flat race sire you will get a sharp small horse.

Add to this equation how the foal is handled and later broken and your friend will realise how complex 'getting a horse to suit her' becomes.

 

[Yann]

To me the history of a breed and the amount of human intervention in it do make a difference. Whilst individuals vary according to both nature and nurture you do get strong general trends within a breed, hence the stereotypes that become attached to them.

The closer you are to the native wild horses I think the more likely you are to get independant, strong willed and opinionated characters. Your Highlands, Shetlands, Exmoors and so on. Welshies too, but there has been a lot of human intervention and line breeding and inbreeding, possibly not always to their benefit. I think this is an issue with many breeds, as is continually breeding for appearance or performance rather than soundness and good temperament.

The more 'man made' horses are then the less opinionated and argumentative they often are too in general.

What is your friend hoping to breed for? Agree a sensible Welshie with a sensible Tb would be a great cross

 

[daftdraught]

I think also it is conditioned from human selection what you would consider as cheaky fron a section A would be thought of as dangerous from lets say a draught horse, history would dictate that dangerous work horses would simply be distroyed at at the least not bred from. Really its down to whats acceptable and desirable for the purpose of the breed.

 

[Bodshi]

I love your thinking - it's exactly the sort of thing that goes through my mind! I'm no help of course because I only have the questions, not the answers, but a couple of people have mentioned upbringing as well as the breed being important which I have been giving a lot of thought to recently. Eg Arabs - seem to have the reputation of being a bit 'nutty' these days (didn't when I was a child many moons ago) but in my limited experience they seem to be very sensitive souls and very tuned in to their human leader (comes of thousands of years of living closely with humans, even in their tents, in the desert I suppose). Anyway, suppose someone who is attracted to the idea of having a nutty horse thinks an Arab would be ideal, I can easily see how if they treated the horse with that thought in mind they would soon end up with an over-excitable, nutty monster. Whereas if the horse was brought up differently and treated calmly it would be a different type of horse altogether.

Just a thought, not really helpful to your friend, sorry! My YO breeds Welsh D's - these days she crosses them with other breeds to make different types - at the moment she has several foals, one has a big traditional cob dad, one has a smaller cob dad, one has I think a thoroughbred dad, one has a top-level coloured showjumper as a father - what a stunning foal he is. All of them at the moment are lovely characters. They are all handled the same and all very friendly but even so you can see a difference in character - one is really sweet but a bit shy, one is very bold and 'look at me', 'scratch MY bum' etc and one whickers to you as soon as you go in the yard in the hope you'll go over and pet her.

Welsh D's seem to be a very versatile breed and make good crosses with a lot of breeds. Any reason why your friend doesn't want to put her horse to another Section D?

 

[devonlass]

Interesting topic,and I often muse on such things!!

Was me I think who mentioned the appy's lol,but I have gained that opinion from reading others experiences as well as my own experiences,so think there must be something in it.

I *think* the native americans bred appy's and they did need their horses to be intelligent,bold and tuned in to their 'person',which in modern language just means sharp,dramatic and sensitive lol.
I have heard stories that their breeding was interfered with some years ago to make them less desirable to the native americans,and less easy for them to train and use.The idea was to make them 'difficult' apparantly,guess they succeeded with many of them:wink::tongue:

I do love my spotty boy though,even if he is a bit 'quirky'!!

All that is only stuff I've heard,but could also be something in the colour part,they are indeed very noticable,so makes sense that they would need to rely on their wits more to escape danger,and would of course be more often targeted which would explain the spookiness.Is all such interesting stuff isn't it?!!

I fully believe the native thing,many have that 'attitude' and are very self assured.It makes perfect sense that it comes from having to survive,and having to tougen up so to speak.

Arabs also I have heard that they are very loyal and one person horses,this ties in with the circumstances they lived under with desert people many years ago as mentioned above.

I think horses do vary according to type and breed,and think many fit a 'typical' profile,that is probably related to lifestyle or purpose.However also think there are many exceptions and as someone said human intervention often changes the boundries and can play a part in how a horse turns out.

Just to add in the past I have had 3 pure-bred horses/ponies (am guessing can only base opinions on pure breds really,as cross breeds can get confusing,especially if not certain of exactly what's in the mix!!),two natives (NF and Fell),and one pure bred draught horse,and all IMO were typical of their 'type' and what people say about them.

 

[Joyscarer]

I think what I wanted to say has all been said by the previous posters.

I too though wonder the thinking behind crossing with another breed. I personally feel that that is a such a broad spectrum of physical characteristics and temperments within the welsh breed that were I to breed from my Sec D mare (which I wouldn't) I'd be spoilt for choice for sires that would be likely to produce a foal to suit my requirements.

That's not to say that I don't find many crosses extremely desireable too :wink: