Bridling a difficult horse and giving up

T

thingstodotoday

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Dec 1, 2008
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Hi

When you are trying out different methods to get a previously abused horse to take a bit, I mean like retraining it, if something isn't working and the horse is starting to get anxious, how bad an idea is it to just leave it for the day?

Everything you read seems to say that once you start you shouldn't stop until you've achieved what you wanted, like getting the bit in its mouth, but if you've made progress, like the horse is now licking the bit, but is starting to get anxious about being "forced" to do more, is it wrong to just finish up? Is the horse going to think "I won, if I play up I don't have to be bridled", or is a bit of time everyday patiently working on something without forcing it a better idea?
 
thingstodotoday said:
Hi

When you are trying out different methods to get a previously abused horse to take a bit, I mean like retraining it, if something isn't working and the horse is starting to get anxious, how bad an idea is it to just leave it for the day?

Everything you read seems to say that once you start you shouldn't stop until you've achieved what you wanted, like getting the bit in its mouth, but if you've made progress, like the horse is now licking the bit, but is starting to get anxious about being "forced" to do more, is it wrong to just finish up? Is the horse going to think "I won, if I play up I don't have to be bridled", or is a bit of time everyday patiently working on something without forcing it a better idea?
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I don't think horses think like this TBH. How does the horse know that you actually wanted it to accept the bit rather than just licking it? Licking it may have been your goal! ;) :)

Incidentally have you considered going bitless instead? Does your horse have to be bitted? It may be worth trying a hackamore or a Dr cook or something similar which i have heard can give you just as much control as a bit and cause less stress to the horse. :D
 
That's exactly what I'm trying now! I've got a dr cook, a S hackamore and a happywheel to try!

I'm asking more out of interest really, I find equine psychology really interesting.

You're right - maybe the horse thought the goal was to get him to lick the bit.
 
I would just do it in small steps - the horse won't know your actual goal - I don't think so anyway? Storm dislikes anything new near her head - took me ages to introduce her to her new leather headcollar - but I just do things like that in parts.
 
Don't think of it as a battle, horses tend not to take that view either. You're trying to teach them that it's not a problem, so going in small steps and finding a good note to finish on are far more important than getting the whole job done in one go.

The only thing you shouldn't do is push it too far and then give up, because there's a danger that you can end up reinforcing the horse's concerns and or teaching it the value of resisting. Always stay super calm and relaxed, it isn't personal and the horse will pick up on your tension if you get uptight or upset.

How have you gone about tackling the issue? :)
 
Hi

Well, so far I've got over his headshy issues - he now loves me brushing his head, and will let me handle his ears and everything. But as soon as a bit comes into the equation, it doesn't matter that he'll let me do that.

First, his teeth were done (they were in a dreadful state) and am having ongoing chiro treatment.

I've tried taking the bridle apart, and having one person on each side, but he just lifts his head up and he's 17.2!

I've tried the same thing with a bucket of food on the floor - he just grabs a mouthful and puts his head up!

I've tried putting a carrot with the bit - sort of works, but still head goes up.

Molasses on the bit work quite well - he now licks the bit whereas before he wouldn't even touch it with his nose. So that's where I left it last time - lots of praise and then we put it away.

I'm going to try bitless as I can get a halter or cavesson on him no probs, it's just the sight of a bit that causes a problem.

Any ideas welcomed!!
 
My lad was terrible to bridle up when I got him but patience and persistance has ment we can now bridle up quietly - allbeit with me standing on a mounting block cause he's 17hh and I'm 5ft2!

I just spent ages letting him nose his bridle and bit and eventually licking and chewing the lozenge in it, feeding him a carrot every time he made a positive step in the right direction. After a week or so he would accept the bit in his mouth but still not happy about the headpiece over his ears. That's when I decided to use a mounting block and do it very slowly patting him and stroking him lots and talking to him. After another week he'd let me put it over his ears and we've stuck with that routine ever since. I have no issues at all putting his bridle on now and he gets lots of kisses while I slyly put the head piece over his ears ;)
 
Oh and I had a go at starting some clicker training, but he's kind of jumpy at the sound of the clicker.
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Don't use a clicker (until horse knows the game ;)). There's no magic about the clicker itself, it's just a noise to mark the exact moment the horse was doing what you'd hoped. You can click with your tongue, or make a kiss noise, whatever you like :)

With training like this, it's a good idea to make a "shaping plan" :) So you look at your end point, and break it down into as many tiny steps as you can. Step one might just be to reward for not throwing the head up when you're standing holding the bridle. Step two might be for actually lowering the head towards the bridle but not touching. Step three might be lowering head and actually touching the bit - then licking the bit, then taking in mouth, then in mouth and you raising the headpiece, etc.

The key thing is that you need to be confident that the horse will do what's in the step you're on about 80% of the time before moving on to the next step. And if you find moving on to the next step goes a bit wrong, move back a step till you're happy it's learned. Keep training sessions short (about 20 treats per session is usually good) and always finish each session on a good note :)

Hope that helps :)
 
How about starting from another angle ? Forget the bit for now and work on getting him to lower his head on command. Each time you give the prompt, say, 'head down' using gentle pressure on his head or lead rope, as soon as he gives a tiny bit, release the pressure and reward/praise. He's a big lad and raising his head gives you no chance. Sometimes working on something else gives a reprieve so they can mature a little more and approach the thing that was difficult before afresh. As can getting someone else to do the initial introductions next time around because they won't have the memory of how difficult it all was before.
 
I totally agree with "capalldubh". Little steps and lots of treats. My Loan horse would not go near the double bridle I bought him (he is fine with his everyday bridle). Spent the best part of 10/15 minutes chasing him round the stable, both of us getting very stressed - so I gave up.

Over the next few days I took it in the stable with me and hung over my shoulder while doing all the normal everyday things with him also lots of treeats and cuddles. By the end of the week like magic it went on no problem. He needed to get used to the chinking of the chin strap and now is fine with it.

Trust and confidence is all that your horse may lack, so keep at it you will get there in the end and doing it gradually means everyone is happy.

Best of luck.
 
As long as you finish on a good note it's fine.
You may go in with the goal of getting the bit in, but if the horse shows any form of acceptance and you think any further would cause a step backwards stop there and then with loads of praise :)
 
I would agree with colettybetty. :)Forget trying to get the bridle on, or the bit in his mouth for the time being. Try this it always works. Put a head collar on him. (If you know how to handle a 'pressure halter' that works best . But it can be cruel if you have not been trained how to use it properly.) Without looking him in the eye, - when he is calm and all is quiet around him- pull gently but firmly down the on the lead rope. (just an inch or two - no more). This makes him feel uncomfortable, he may well pull his head up.(This is a natural reaction for horses). When he pulls his head up to escape the uncomfortable feel on his head, do not fight him, but just hold on to the amount of pressure HE has applied. You just stand and wait as though you have no idea why he has lifted his head. (He should not realise that you have appiled the pressure). - do not look him in the eye, look elsewhere but hold the pressure. When you feel him give the SLIGHTEST TINNIEST 'give' on the rope, -IMMEDIATLEY take ALL the pressure off the rope - and IMMEDIATLEY gently rub his forehead. Then walk him around for a few seonds on a loose rope. Repeat this whole exersice several times, over several days, making sure that the horse is relaxed before you start each time. Then forget about it intil the next day. If you do this daily whithout causing fear or pain the horse will start to lower his head. Then you can repeat the process with the bridle, then you can introduce the bit. It is very important that the horse gets to see you as a freind who will help him. This is called "teaching to come off pressure". Once your horse has learned this it will be easier to teach him any ground work. It is a good idea once the head is down to learn how to gently massage the head and neck.
 
French-I have been doing all in your above post for a couple of weeks now, almost word for word, and my horse who is 10 but been turned out in a field since being backed at 3 and not had much in the way of handling,and is very headshy and spooked by absolutely everything, is coming on really well!
He now has a headcollar on easily and accepts a training halter&bit. He is still at the stage of really mouthing the bit and he absolutely refuses to walk with it in although hes fine being led in a headcollar. I am having to take things really slowly with him and am waiting until he stops mouthing so much and is used to the feel of the bit in his mouth before I push him to walk in it.I feel that slow and steady is the best way to be-horses dont work to goals and wont realise that you are, so as long as every session ends on a good note I think all you can do is give it time.My own opinion(not everyone may agree)is that horses never lie and rarely are "naughty" without reason.Patience and reassurance and a lot of time usually solves most things xx
 
Kira came to me painfully headshy, I have worked on a sugar water reward system (a bit old fashioed but it works) instead of backing off when she got nervous I took her up to the point where she was going to get nervous if I pushed and then gave her a treat of sugar water in a syringe, I then advanced this as she relaxed (she enjoyed getting the treat) and now she stands nicely and really quiet to be bridled and waits patiently for her sugar water, eventually I will wean her off but atm it makes her happy so I will continue ;)
 
headshy

Well done Lisa21 - Do you have a safe place to loose school? If you could trurn your horse loose in a Round Pen when she is wearing her bit you could then walk gently behind her and encourage her forwards.
 
Hi French-unfortunately the only place I have to work with him is in his field. I have read you shouldnt work a horse in his own field but I have absolutely no other option-he is nowhere near safe enough to take out as it would have to be along a very busy road and were not ready for that yet.So I am having to do my best working with what Iv got.:D
 
silver was headshy when he came to me and I couldn't get the bridle over his ears without him throwing his head up and freaking out.

got various types of 'Advice', none of which really worked.

Eventually mum and I took the bridle apart and put it back together again on him. this calmed him so we progressed to getting the bit in then undoing the headpiece and bringing it over like a headcollar.

we tried to go back to the normal way of bridling but he wasn't ready. I think because his mouth/lips are quite short but his head is huge it was pulling on his mouth when i tried to get the head piece over his ears.

so now I put the head piece on as normal and leave the bit out till last. then undo a cheek piece and slot the bit in. works like a dream, though i do get funny looks and have had the odd 'errr you've missed his mouth' comments but *shrug*

if you find something that works then stick to it, problem is finding something that works! sorry i cant offer real advice other than take things slowly and dont get disheartened.

hope the bitless bridles work for you though in the meantime
 
maybe the bit's too cold? sounds wierd but its y alot of horses wont take the bit- try warming it up in your hands, and put a polo underneath it- then he has to take the bit to get the mint lol
 
thingstodotoday said:
if something isn't working and the horse is starting to get anxious, how bad an idea is it to just leave it for the day?

Everything you read seems to say that once you start you shouldn't stop until you've achieved what you wanted....

Is the horse going to think "I won, if I play up I don't have to be bridled", or is a bit of time everyday patiently working on something without forcing it a better idea?
Click to expand...

There are 2 separate ideas here which can cause confusion: the idea that you need to achieve what you set out to achieve and the idea that you should end with a 'win' ie the horse having done something you asked immediately before you finish for the day.

The first is not necessary - you can always start with a plan but you need to take things at the horses pace which you can't know in advance and be flexible about what you achieve. However in my view the second part is very important. Horses don't think 'I won' but they learn to associate behaviours and their consequences extremely quickly. You don't want him associating sticking his head in the air, or getting agitated with a release of pressure (ie the end of the requests).

Good luck:)
 
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