Charlie Update.......

M

Monty

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Nov 16, 2001
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Ok....I know I've been quiet the last week or so since Charlie arrived, and not completely without reason. I still don't know, but live in hope that I have the right horse.The day after he arrived, I went to see him, and he was an absolute monster in the stable. I was devastated.He just wasn't the horse I went down to Gloucester to see. He head butted, he bit, he pushed and shoved. Had problems even getting a head collar on him.

I asked them to turn him out. Livery owner was worried for me, found him to be pushy and shovey when he turned him out. Next day we left him out,and cancelled the schooling session I had planned, thinking some time to chill . Then Friday he was brought in, and was angel in the stable. My friend took him down to the menege, and he was spooky, on his toes, and all sorts of antics.
I didn't even get on him. There was no point my even considering the idea. I rang the yard where he came from to notify them that there were difficulties. I had already ordered the Happy Mouth he was used to as he clearly didn't like the eggbutt snaffle I had on offer. Apparently he had never seen a dentist as far as they knew, so dentist is coming on Wednesday. By the time we untacked him, he was getting impatient again. Shoving and pushing. he was duly turned out, and left to enjoy his weekend.

I booked a schooling session with a dressage trainer locally,for today and thought I'd await her independent asessment. Friend came to yard, with the intention that I'd load him myself if possible. Friend had to load him, he bounced onto the trailer. He pushes too far forward, trying to get out of the jockey door. It's really hard to get the Tui bar up, with him squashing my fingers against it when I'm holding it, and generally pushing against me. He's not aggressive or scared. Just full of himself. I've stoppped the hard feed he was getting at his previous yard. Got to the trainer's and the monster that I described to her on the phone last Friday turned into putty in her hands. This was the Charlie I thought I'd bought in the first place! Little b****r!! He was worked quite hard, and the trainer loved him. Said he struck her as a really sweet honest horsey, who knew just about what he should at six, with a few rough edges that needed some work. And he was certainly a star this afternoon.

I managed to load him almost single handedly....he was too tired to barge too much methinks. I don't think he's even naughty at it...I don't think he knows how to load into a trailer properly, get the impression that like a wagon, I think he thinks he's meant to turn after reaching the top of the ramp!! He also doen't know how to back out of the trailer.....and I need him to back out. There isn't room for me to get out of the front one and move out of his way, before he comes bouncing out!

However, with some trepitation, -onwards and upwards!:rolleyes: Maybe this is what Lee Pearson meant when he told me to step out of my comfort zone, just a wee bit, or I'd still be on a riding school pony in ten years' time!!

Friend and I are taking him to a show on Saturday. Will get loads of photos for you to see, and just hope he behaves himself. Til then, he's getting ridden every day!

That should be fun.....
 
bless him. it just sounds as though he's a bit fresh and settling still. i agree totally with the comfort zone but it is very hard!

glad things are a little more on the upside now and looking forward to the piccies;)
 
I agree that he is still settling in and like any horse will try to test the boundaries until they learn what is acceptable in their new home.I'm sure in time he will be more of the angel that you first fell in love with than the devil in disguise he pretends to be at the moment.
 
Sounds as if he is used to daily riding, not unusual in a six year old being schooled for sale. I am sure everything will work out...temperement is everything. We have had bolshy spooky horses and ponies turn around almost immediately when in regular work. Can you get someone to ride him daily until you can?

You know my view, I am not a great believer in chill time for new horses , far better they get straight to work and realise new owner is there to work for, it also tends to be the quickest way to build up a relationship with them.
 
eml said:
You know my view, I am not a great believer in chill time for new horses , far better they get straight to work and realise new owner is there to work for, it also tends to be the quickest way to build up a relationship with them.
Click to expand...

I agree with that one. Bry was in the school carrying on our normal routine of Long Reining when we moved yards within an hour of her being there. Never again will I faff around with chill time.

I really hope this guy works out for you.

xx
 
Glad you've been able to update us on how it's going with Charlie. I really do hope everything starts to come together for you and him.

It is very early days yet you know ;)
 
Hi Monty
I am sorry you are not having the dream time you expected with Charlie at this point :eek: , but as already said, it really is very early days. At least he has shown his colours when he was schooled. He's just trying to find his feet at the moment.

I really believe in 'chill time' and taking your time, but it depends on the definition... for me chill time would be doing lots of groundwork to sort out behaviour and get some mutual respect and trust. He sounds like he's great once he's being ridden which will be great, but you especially also need ultimate trust from the ground.. to be sure he'll look after you! Maybe treat him like a new kid at school who's only ever been with his parents. He doesn't know what to do.

Due to your need to be careful, to keep yourself safe, I can understand your trepidation but can you get someone with you in the school to help if he gets a bit active and do some basic ground training, like 'back up' and yielding to the touch. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to teach you to suck eggs as you are an accomplished horsewoman (and would give me a run for my money in any dressage competition!!! ;) ), but sometimes it's easy to forget cos you are so embroiled with so many issues at the same time.

I wish you the best of luck and he does sound lovely, albeit a little unsure.

best wishes!
 
In the past I've been too excited/enthusiastic to go for chill time, but I tried putting Monty straight to work, and look where I ended up there...not that I think his problems had anything to do with the lack of chill time, of course.

I've no idea how this is going to pan out. I asked his previous yard owner if he needed a lot of work to keep him sane, and she laughed long and hard, saying "Charlie?? No. You can get him out once a week and he's as sweet as ever." She couldn't believe me when I told her I was having problems. She said anyone on the yard would tell me that he was as soft as a brush, and that she was sure he would settle down. And he may yet. To be honest, I felt a bit of a plonker today when we got to the dressage trainer's and he just went around as sweetly as anything.
Pah! They're like kids....they love to show you up.

Well, he's going to be new bitted, dentisted, ridden daily, bathed and shown and that's all between now and Saturday. That'll keep his mind occupied for a while, and teach him what to do with his excess energy! Hopefully it'll do him good.

, when we loaded him for home whilst he was tired. I couldn't have done it for the outward journey, because he was too bombastic. I think I'll enlist the help of my Intelligent Horsemanship lady for his in-hand matters. There seems to be a little gap in his education just there. He genuinely doesn't seem to know that pushing and shoving is not allowed. And he really doesn't seem to know that once he's on the trailer, he needs to stop and not keep going forward. I'm sure Lyn will be able to help there, she's worked marvels with Gracie.:)

I'll be seeing her on Monday as Grace is going to her for two weeks foot picking up training! So I'll hopefully get some idea of timing then. This is not something I can tackle alone.:rolleyes: He's likely to flatten me. he does have an idea, because if you push your fingers into his chest, and say "back", he moves backwards, albeit somewhat reluctantly. But you have to be as persistent with the "in your face behaviour" as he is to achieve that.
 
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I have to say that even though your first post has a few negatives in it, I can't help feeling that overall you are still positive about Charlie.... there is a good vibe coming through - much better than the updates we had about Monty. I am SURE he will settle and come good.... I think you already have a better bond with him and therefore this will spur YOU on to make it come good.

All the best for Saturday.... and WE WANT PICCIES!!!! ;) :p

xx
 
Maybe, you speak a 'different dialect'. Maybe the way you move, the way you act, is so dissimilar to what this horse is used to that he can't relate. Maybe you're just too different for him to adapt right away ? Maybe it's not just him. Perhaps it's in the partnership. Perhaps it's a communication problem between you and him. Perhaps it's not all his fault. Perhaps he's not one of those horses who can adapt to a major change instantly. Perhaps he's unfocussed because he's feeling really disrupted ?

The UK is very hot on standardising things. Very insistent on 'the right way' .. even having a 'right way' to tie a horse, to load a horse etc etc. One of the reasons for that is because of the culture of transferring ownership of horses frequently and swiftly. They seem to be bought and sold with less frequency over here, maybe that's how we get away with less standardised methods here, but much longer settling in times ?

Pat Parelli (hate him, yuk) has a thing he says about trailer loading. He says you never take the horse out 'and see' if he will load. When we get a new horse, we're all about 'seeing' what he will do, checking him out, seeing if the sellers deceived us or not. We're almost never about seeing it from his point of view. We're all test and no help.

When I post about my ongoing saga with Tiny Pony, about nobody is going to say 'For goodness sake Kate, take a look at yourself, you're making all the wrong decisions'. Even if they think it. We've become a 'known pair' and nobody is going to stand up and rip me to shreds. Even though I deserve it.

Give him some time. Give him a chance.
 
I'm all for chill out time for new horses too. We take them away from their friends, their security, their caretaker and expect them to be fine with it all....give him the benefit of the doubt...and some time to get to know you, his new herd mates and his new home.:)
 
Oooh I must of missed something, did not know you had found another horse. Congratulations:)

I am sure he will settle down once he knows you are now his regular handler:) Maybe he senses that subconsciously you are a litte nervous whilst you are getting to know him. I know that when it comes to loading I am shocking, got squashed in a float by a horse so I am nervous, and although I think I am outwardly handling things subconsciously I am a wreck inside consequently horse does not load properly:(

Good luck with the show and I am sure that he will settle nicely:)
 
New place, new friends, new owner. He's only young, so needs someone in charge to help him feel safe again. He's uppity 'cause he's nervous (no safe secure herd feeling, and doesn't trust you yet), so is full of nervous energy and adrenalin all the time. Groundwork will build that trust, so that he sees that however limited you are physically, you're a person he can trust who will keep him safe. Then he'll be the Charlie they knew. Young horses trust the world they know. Otherwise, they rely heavily on older horses/humans to follow and feel safe. That's why he was good with the trainer - the human took charge, he felt safe and could relax.

A bit like - bf's pony (who was mine to start with) respects me and behaves, but can be really stubborn and silly. When I was injured, she was so very careful with me, but was absolutely terrified if we went out of her 'comfort zone' (the yard) without my bf. Her thinking - no WAY are we going out there, with me looking after both of us - I CAN'T do it, I can't!!!
 
Monty - he sounds like he needs a bit of education on ground manners and a bit of time. He is only 6 so will pick things up quickly, I'm sure that the RA will be a great help. I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt, sweatshirt AND fleece with Saff. It's been worthwhile though and I've got a cracking little pone out of it.

Dropping the hard feed is probably the best thing that you can do and consider supplementing with magnesium, I THOUGHT that it had worked when I started it but KNEW that it was working when she wasn't getting it consistently.

It may be that you're going to need help in the early stages but it sounds like he's got the potential to be your horsey soul mate.

All the best hun xxx
 
I would assume that Charlie is just settling in from what you've described. What I would say is that with Fudge I really had to get on top of his bargy behaviour quickly, if he is allowed he would (and did) literally walk all over people. I use a be nice halter on him and have done some natural horsemanship ground work with him and he's a perfect angel now 99% of the time. Do what ever you need to do to gain Charlies trust and respect, but it is going to take time and he is going to test you out.
 
Thank you all for your comments/suggestions. I'm not suggesting for one minute it's all his fault, it rarely is, especially as someone who does things in a more unorthodox manner. You're talking here to someone who loads her two year old in the trailer, by putting a handful of chaff in a feed bucket in a commode stand at the other end of the trailer, :)D ) so she knows exactly where to stop, and so I can put the Tui bar up and her head isn't too low for the bar to come up properly! I've spent a lifetime blaming myself for everything that goes wrong with horses. And there are some very dishonest people out there. One reason I rang the seller was to see if I was doing anything vastly different, and the other that if an issue DID turn up, then best she knows now and not in a month's time, that there are difficulties. Instinctively I don't think this woman has done anything wrong, and that it is just the change in circumstances.

The thing I probably haven't appreciated, is how lucky I've been in the past with horses whose backs I've clambered upon, the day after they've arrived, and just got on with it, without having to worry at all.

You put your finger on it there Domane. Charlie's behaviour is a little puzzling. When I went to try him, I'll tell you how confident I felt. For starters, I actually got on him. And believe me, I've travelled quite some distances and not even got on board after getting there. Also,the YO asked if she could leave me, whilst she went and answered her house phone....and I said yes! Now that was quite something for someone in my situation, parked 14.3hh high up on a young unfamiliar horse. I remember smiling to myself and thinking....."How bonkers is this??"

Above all, what I can say is this: It's the inner voice of common sense telling me "Right, now you must get this loading problem sorted, before you try and do it by yourself". I don't sit there with hear pounding, thinking "OMG, I'm going to get flattened, don't do it, don't do it!" I just think, if he pushes too hard I'll fall, and then even if I don't get hurt, how am I going to get up again if I'm on my own? And I guess, therein lies the difference between me, and most of you. It's a hiccough in a horse's manners to most of you, and was more so to me three years ago too. Now, I could be unhurt but lying out in the rain/cold with a horse running loose if it happened. And therefore it is more of a worry than it would have been say three years ago.

What's odd though, Domane, is that he isn't aggressive, and on reading my own post back to myself, I'd say now, not even full of himself. He just doesn't know how to do it any other way. And so he's very enthusiastic about it, and I don't know how to manage the situation without confusing him/putting him off loading, and and/or hurting me, so common sense is telling me to get help....that's all! But yes....somehow I have still got good vibes, because he rode yesterday with the dressage trainer, the way he rode with me the day I went to try him. So, I'm going to wait and see how the correct bit, which has arrived this morning, together with dentist, works. I think I'm just being impatient, but above all, worried by previous experiences.

Calm down that woman...........:eek: :rolleyes:
 
It is understandable to be worried but you are clearly sensible and experienced enough to not make snap decisions and the great thing is that you still have good vibes. I hope that with a little more time to settle in and get used to each other, things will get better - I'm sure they will.

As you say, you are in a different situation to most of us and Charlie needs to get used to that as much as you need to get used to his character.
 
And Breathe! :D

However 'chilled' they are they all take time to settle in a new environment with new people. Will have a dig but I'm sure there's an aromatherapy thing that fits in this situation. Sarah has been using one of them with Rolo (and herself) and it has helped immensely. Will drop in to the saddlers and see if he has the right one - if so it will be on its way to you tomorrow.

Also think of the good points - he went somewhere new to the trainer's place and was well behaved which is good for competitions in the future. He loads away from home and was willing to go back in the trailer after his first experience travelling in one.

The loading thing is just inexperience on his part - I had the opposite problem with Tavia, she'd only ever been in trailers and would walk into the horsebox and stand facing forward. Then would look really hurt and resist when you tried to turn her into the herringbone position.

P.S. she was also an ill-mannered brat in-hand, never aggressive, just poor understanding of personal space which sounds a lot like Charlie's problem. A lot of in-hand work sorted that out - she backs. picks up feet, moves over etc on voice command now. I do think getting your IH person to help with him is an excellent idea.
 
Oh yes, that reminds me......he now pics up his feet nicely for, and he also does the whole mounting block thing nicely...which is a lot to ask of a horse who has been taught that if a block is used at all, people just hop on quickly from the block, clearing his rear end completely in the process .......and then along comes Monty who destroys that whole graceful illusion for him in one foul swoop!!

Poor Charlie. It's a lot for him to take on board. I think we'll get there eventually.
 
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