collection and outline (again!)

Rojeth

Definitely Not a Natural
Aug 15, 2005
417
0
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Sometimes even i don't know
ok, so how do we get a truly collected horse in outline?

i have heard so many different things you shouldnt do, such as pull the horse down using the reins.

i have heard that you have tp push the horse forwards from the leg, but even if your horse is responding really well to the leg, very rarely will they naturally go in outline. or am i just not pushing enough?

i have no wish to use drawreins etc, i want to know what to do properly. my current instructor tels me to hold the outside rein low and taut and tease the inside, and he will go into outline.certainly he was better behaved and more in balance and felt much more comfortable.

is this the right way? does anyone have any suggestions?
 
yeah your instructor is correct

first thing is you cant get your horse collected unless he is moving forward from his hind.

So you get your horse moving forward first then you softly hold the outside rein to keep your horse on track, this rein is just here to support the horse to stay on track.

Inside leg is also to keep the horse on the outside track

Inside rein is softly pulling and releasing untill you get a responce, when you get a responce stop the pulling and softly hold.

DO not pull the horse down using the reins this will case the horse to stick its nose in the air and hollow the back.
 
The best advice I got was to visualize my hands as a wall. You want enough contact that the horse could 'push against the wall' with his nose, but not too much contact that he'd run into the wall-does that make sense?

when you ride a horse, the majority of it comes from your seat and leg. The problem that a lot of people run into when they are trying to learn (or to teach the horse) is that they have too little contact (in which the horse gets faster and flatter) or too much (and this where you can get a horse behind the vertical). Its easier if you ride with your hands spread wide-that way you are assured that you have an even contact in both hands (since so many riders are stronger on one side then the other) and you just really awnt to drive with your legs. It's a balance ;) A pain in the ass of a one to figure out, but one day it'll just click
 
What you're trying to accomplish is to get the horse to use his body more, but without going any faster. He should be really flexing/lifting his hind legs, then when extending them way forward before putting them back on the ground. That's a more more movement from his body, takes a LOT more energy.

So how do you get the horse to use more energy without going faster? You ask for more energy with your legs, but use your hands and seat to keep him from going any faster. So don't focus on his "headset" or "outline"; think about getting more movement and enthusiasm out of your horse, but not letting him take that movement and just speed up.
 
I'm learning to get the horse in an outline, and it is tough. Max really only starts to frame, when we start to trot, at the warmup walk he rarely ever does. Anyway, I ask squeeze him, but maintain (hold) his energy up front with the outside reign having a steady contact. I then squeeze and release with my inside reign and inside leg, ever now and then squeezing with both legs to keep him moving. But Max can be hard to move at times, so it might just be him!
 
thanks for the advice everyone!

glad to see i haven't been doing more harm than good. dont worry galadriel we were pushing him forward al the time, but with this particular horse, unless you get him to soften he will just start to run away when you push him on. apparently its a balance, not helped by changing horses every week!
 
Collection is the last one in the scales of training.

Rhythm

Suppleness/Relaxation

Contact

Impulsion

Straightness

Collection

For a young or unschooled horse the general outline will be quite long with minimal engagement. The poll should still be the highest point in the frame. I would not expect him to demonstrate the last two, and the contact will not always be secure at all times, nor will the impulsion be consistent.

A good explanation can be found here:

http://www.artofriding.com/articles/trainingscale.html
 
Holding the outside rein low and jiggling the inside rein is cheating. If thats merely all thats to it, then everyone should be able to do it!

The truth is, you do use your reins to suggest the horse be light in the bridle (soften) but it is very far from being the only way to get an outline. What jiggling your reins alone does, in fact, is get you a *false* outline. The horse tucks his head in to escape the nuisance. To an untrained eye, he now looks 'framed' but in fact he's just evading your hands.

My horse will go into a natural outline by using my legs alone. His conformation plays a large role in his ability to do that. I can hold the buckle and ask him to trot out beneath me and as long as Im balanced and un-interfereing, he'll do it.

Creating an outline requires many components of riding working simotaneously. It takes alot of practice, coordination, trust, and ability to do so in both the rider AND horse. If it were merely as easy as pulling and jiggling your reins, all of us would be getting 80% in our dressage tests!
 
Tootsie4U said:
Holding the outside rein low and jiggling the inside rein is cheating. If thats merely all thats to it, then everyone should be able to do it!

The truth is, you do use your reins to suggest the horse be light in the bridle (soften) but it is very far from being the only way to get an outline. What jiggling your reins alone does, in fact, is get you a *false* outline. The horse tucks his head in to escape the nuisance. To an untrained eye, he now looks 'framed' but in fact he's just evading your hands.

thats what it thought, which was why i was loathe to do it. thanks for the help!
 
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