Consensus on mutal grooming?

Nookster

Nookster

Active Member
Oct 21, 2002
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What’s the general view on allowing mutual grooming ? Worngs and rights for doing so?

Most horses I have had never really partaken in a whole lot of mutual grooming. Every so often but not frequently.

Voltan of late is very much so on a daily basis offering (lining up his shoulder area with me) or trying to offer (circling me if i walk away - i was trying this out his morning but he does stop when told too) if that makes sense?

Upon checking them in the field this morning he kept present himself in front of me. Nuzzling (rub my coat arm) me to interact and groom. If I walked away he would circle me and present again.

I do give him a good scratch and his nuzzles are always gentle. I don’t lack any control and I do feel he views me as alpha.

But wonder more about the specifics behind the behaviour.

I know there’s some good gurus on here with this knowledge so would love to hear.
 
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I think its lovely. I realise its different from horse to horse (and person to person) but for me there's a huge difference between gentle mutual grooming and head rub/head butt/face in my space which I always discourage.

Like nookster though, would love to hear opinions from people who know better than me!
 
Voltan is just a big dog! :p He was trying it with me this morning when I was taking off his over reach boots :p
 
If you was truely alpha then it would be you initiating the grooming IMO

Nelson is the boss in my field and nobody (another horse) is allowed to approach him for a groom... he has to approach them.

Its ok to mutual groom as long as no teeth are involved (foal learnt this lesson quickly :p) but by allowing them to come over and initiate a groom and for you to go on with it could make some horses bargy and rude, I think its much better for the horse if they want to scratch to send them away and then you approach them, that way the horses still gets his scratch and you aren't a meany and horse doesn't think he is getting the upper hand.
 
i love it. generally it is the dominant horse who initiates it, so i'm careful (especially with babies and stallions) to make sure i start and finish it, but as long as no teeth are used i am happy to do it for ages.
 
With Libby I refuse to groom her if she presents to me. However I will go to her while she's grazing and start scratching and then we enjoy it together. She doesn't try asking me any more now.

Lucy's not as moody and unpredictable as Libby so I let her show me her itchy bits ;)., she's a bit spoilt but she doesn't tak advantage so I guess it's OK.
 
Ah.. so it well could be although I have manners and what I ask for I am actually not alpha?
 
Sexy Sietske said:
If you was truely alpha then it would be you initiating the grooming IMO
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That's what I'd always been told - grooming is instigated by the alpha horse who then invites the lower ranking horse to groom.

If you get too caught up in all the psychology it would take you hours to do anything with your horse.

I personally wouldn't let mine do it as he can be a bit rough but if the horse is not being too rough.
 
I sometimes get mutual grooming from Tess, normally after I've started doing something to her. I think it's lovely, she's very gentle and circumspect about it. Rio has never done it.

I wouldn't personally get hung up about whether it's alpha or whatever if the horses are otherwise polite and well behaved. It's possible to get a bit too hung up on horse behaviour stuff and stop seeing the wood for the trees :)
 
My trainer calls it "subtle disobedience" ...

As long as *you* have the working relationship you want, I wouldn't get too worried ;).
 
Nookster said:
Ah.. so it well could be although I have manners and what I ask for I am actually not alpha?
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Probably!
I learnt that anything initiated by the horse (ie. presenting themselves, headrubbing etc) is dominant and should be discouraged, but reciprocal behaviour (ie. the human starts grooming or offering a scratch then the horse 'returns the favour') is ok. As Mehitabel suggested - make sure you are the one who starts and finishes it.
 
Soot said:
With Libby I refuse to groom her if she presents to me. However I will go to her while she's grazing and start scratching and then we enjoy it together. She doesn't try asking me any more now.

Lucy's not as moody and unpredictable as Libby so I let her show me her itchy bits ;)., she's a bit spoilt but she doesn't tak advantage so I guess it's OK.
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same here - i have some ponies i will let start it if they ask politely - others will see it the start of their world domination!
 
Just forget all the unresearched dominance stuff and think of it simply.

Horse is aware humans are good scratchers and when itchy, approaches human and asks to be scratched. Sometimes human reciprocates, sometimes they do not. This is like playing a fruit machine - sometimes the horse wins big, sometimes they don't win at all. This very much strengthens the likelihood they will continue to ask to be scratched. If some time goes past without any scratches, the horse will escalate the behaviour (become more insistent) - called an extinction burst. If you never ever respond to the extinction burst with scratchies, the horse will stop asking.

However if you like scratching your horse, just treat it as you would a food reward. The horse never gets a scratch when it asks, only when you offer. The horse must do something in order to obtain a scratch (even if it's only standing still and not being pushy). Scratchies do not always happen in the same place or at the same time. That way everybody enjoys the process and nobody gets mugged ;)
 
I always initiate-if they try, they get a gentle shove backwards. I scratch just below the withers and it makes most horses try to groom back-very funny! Boomer used to groom the wall if he couldn't reach me!
 
capalldubh said:
Just forget all the unresearched dominance stuff and think of it simply.

Horse is aware humans are good scratchers and when itchy, approaches human and asks to be scratched. Sometimes human reciprocates, sometimes they do not. This is like playing a fruit machine - sometimes the horse wins big, sometimes they don't win at all. This very much strengthens the likelihood they will continue to ask to be scratched. If some time goes past without any scratches, the horse will escalate the behaviour (become more insistent) - called an extinction burst. If you never ever respond to the extinction burst with scratchies, the horse will stop asking.

However if you like scratching your horse, just treat it as you would a food reward. The horse never gets a scratch when it asks, only when you offer. The horse must do something in order to obtain a scratch (even if it's only standing still and not being pushy). Scratchies do not always happen in the same place or at the same time. That way everybody enjoys the process and nobody gets mugged ;)
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glad u replied. was interested to your judgement on it. Good read! and interesting.

cinammontoast- have known volt to also groom the wall if i groom and hes in the stable :)
 
Salsa and both colts mutually groom me, but I always begin. I don't think any of them have ever asked me to scratch them - I make the offer. If they want a scratch, then they often nibble and lip at my clothes, and Sal gives wonderful rubs with his top lip on the back of my shoulder! :D
 
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