Crazy right hand/both legs (vids)

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PonyIAmNotFood

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Mar 18, 2011
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Hi,

Not been on in a while as couldn't afford the subscription but have now paid for the year, yay :)

I'm being brave as not sure what on earth is happening to my riding, so some pointers/exercises/brutal honesty would be really helpful please :)

3 videos, I have more but have chosen to upload the ones that highlight my problems the most. I can see I have started to grip up with my lower leg and knee (especially the crazy ass right leg, that thing has a mind of it's own), I cross my outside hand on circles (again especially my right hand), and have generally gone a bit naff.

Walk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSCe_h-nr6M

Trot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sw8m1PB-Ok

Canter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wS_pa8qbk

Please don't comment on the horse, he's a schoolie, and the reason my hands are moving so much is to give the rein back to him as he leans and is liable to go a bit quick so I was trying to keep him off the rein slightly. I would also love to buy him, so if anyone has any money they'd like to donate to the 'Mel want's a big irish tank of a horse fund' please let me know :biggrin:
 
Can't see the trot one. In the walk, I think your leg was going too far back behind the girth when giving the aids to walk. I've been told to keep it on the girth when giving the aids to keep walking. You were better in canter.
 
Your hands look soft from your elbows and shoulders, which is nice to see. They are a little wavery in places, but I'd be happier with that than still but fixed hands, and there are moments when the horse is offering you a lovely shape.

You are nagging a bit with your legs I think. And when you give a leg aid, it is coming from your heel, which you are bringing up and back. Those two things together make your legs look quite busy, which is where some of the untidyness is coming from.

You could try dropping your stirrups a hole or two and opening your hips more, which will put your calf more against the horse's sides. If you can give a squeeze or "brush" with your calf rather than a nudge with your heel then your leg aids will be much less obvious. It will also mean you don't need to make a (relatively) big, unbalancing movement with your lower leg, which in turn will help you keep your hands still. If there is less background noise from you, your horse will be more likely to listen to a subtle aid, so this is a virtuous circle.

Overall I think you are doing a nice job.
 
Your stirrups are too short so it's forcing your knee up and your thigh bone is making you sit at the back of the saddle so ultimately this could give him a sore back as you are not sitting centrally. Can someone on the ground put you in the ear, hip, heel alignment so you know what you are aiming for? I did this with my sharer as she had a bad habit of sitting on the back panels of my saddle and it reaped great rewards and her position has improved immensely :)
 
I agree with Domane. I think your stirrups look a little short.

I will comment on the horse - he looks like an absolute sweety!!! I really like him!

Agree your much better in Canter. Cant see the trot video, says its listed as private.
 
Stirrups definitely too short. Dropping them several holes and lengthening your leg will allow it to hang relaxed beneath you from the hip downwards, giving you a better seat and a more secure and relaxed leg position. The short stirrups and the chair seat you're being put in, by both them and the cut of the saddle, are doing you no favours - it is encouraging you to draw your leg back when you apply the aids, instead of keeping it still and squeezing where it is already. Drawing your heel up and back makes your whole leg insecure and tense, so you need to focus on sinking the weight down into your heel and stretching your leg downwards... both when applying the aids and when your leg is "at rest". Imagine a piece of elastic running down through your leg, starting at your hip and coming out from the bottom of your foot - imagine someone is pulling at the end of the elastic and pulling your foot towards the ground. I would drop your stirrups 3 or even 4 holes (yes, seriouslyl) and then work on keeping your leg long and relaxed. It looks like you are blessed with nice long legs - you just need to learn how to use them to your advantage!

In the canter clip your lower leg is a lot better, it's not creeping back so much and doesn't look so "busy" - however you do still have this tendency to raise your heel at times. It also (and this may be connected) looks like you "bounce" a little in canter, rather than keeping your bum in the saddle and following the movement quietly with your seat. This probably has a fair bit to do with the stirrup length and the position of your thigh, and the fact that your bum is being pushed right to the back of the saddle. You will follow the movement with much less effort if you are seated in the middle of the saddle with your leg loose beneath you. It will also be far more comfortable for the horse!

The moving hands aren't too bad as they are still kind and the contact is light - agree with Feawen it is MUCH better to see some gentle movement than a fixed hand - I would however shorten your reins and carry your hands a bit further forwards. You also need to watch your outside hand, as you tend to move it forwards a bit and not keep a consistent contact, hence there are times when he falls out through the shoulder as you turn. You are right to give the rein away when he leans on your hand, just try not to make it a constant movement.

There is nothing drastically wrong, but I think you really need to get to work on lengthening and relaxing those legs. Hate to say it but no-stirrup work and maybe some lessons on the lunge will do you the world of good! At the moment it just kind of looks like you are doing too much - the "background noise" as Feawen put it (good expression btw!).
 
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Trot one should work now, sorry. Thanks for the replies, very helpful! I'm not sure how I developed having short stirrups, I used to ride long and I think after trying a few new instructors, I have been told by several to shorten them as I pull my knee off the knee roll when they're longer. I suppose this would be because the saddles don't fit my leg length though, so i'm banishing stirrups until it's sorted, thanks for pointing that out :) I would hate to hurt their backs, I can see i'm bouncing :(

I can also see the point about 'background noise', i've never known this horse be slow and behind the leg but that is how he looks in all the vids and I know that's me making too much 'noise' and taking the sharpness away. He's really good to ride for that as he'll have a big change in attitude I think once I sit still so i'll know i've shut up a bit haha.

As for the long reins, that's my nemisis, i'll have my hands practically on my hips and not notice for about ten minutes. An instructor a few weeks back told me to carry a whip under my thumbs so I can see exactly what they're doing and they stay level, may do that as well.

So no stirrups and thumb-whip exercise and chanting 'don't nag and streeeeetch that right leg' to myself. I'm gonna look crazy haha. Thank you lots for that though, it really helps to be able to ignore the horse sometimes and just concentrate on the rider, it's a bit harder when you're sat on it at the same time lol.
 
With regards to keeping your knee off the saddle - thats the Complete opposite of what I am being taught. I am taught to have the full length of my thigh in contact with the saddle. If I allow my knee off the saddle I get floppy legs, unstable lower leg and my toes point out.

Oh hang on I think I read that wrong, do you mean that when your stirrups are longer you have a habit of pulling your knee away and the RI tells u off? Or the RI is teaching you to have your knee off?
 
These days it is taught knee off.

In my day it was taught knee on!

Am going to look at clips now!
 
When I lengthen my leg, it draws my thigh back and it's a good few inches away from where it 'should' lie on the knee roll, so it's still touching the saddle, just further back. I struggle as i'm 6ft of leg and need an 18inch saddle really but riding so many different horses, I just put up with what fits them. Have decided to ignore the RI who tells me off for not having my leg lying on the knee roll as it puts me in a chair seat (she's excellent otherwise), dropped my stirrups 3 holes yesterday on the same horse and got some fab work from him so it really helped, despite my leg having dropped back from the knee roll.
 
I think you are on the right track with that. In a good flatwork position in that saddle, I don't see how your knee could be on the knee roll. For flatwork, your thighs should be closer to vertical than horizontal, because your leg needs to come back from the hip.

You may find that once you have dropped your stirrups you can get your bum closer to the front of the saddle (sorry for that image!), which would put your knees closer to the position your RI wants, as well as being more comfortable from the horse's point of view. But your knees still wouldn't be in the knee rolls on a forward-cut saddle.

I'd be interested to know why your RI wants your knee on the roll? Not a dig at her or you, just curious, in case there is a reason I haven't thought of.

If you haven't done so before, you might find it helps to try riding in a dressage saddle, if the opportunity ever comes up. A good one should help you get a feel for the correct position without you having to fight the saddle for it :)
 
I'm not sure why she wants my leg closer to the knee roll, may ask. It's not the RI who was teaching in these videos, it's at a different school that i'm told that and seem to have carried it across. She's quite small so her leg probably is close to the knee roll in any saddle she rides in so maybe it's that. I have ridden in a dressage saddle once, my bosses horse is a dressage beast and I have to say it was a whole lot easier from what I remember. Didn't help me ride the horse like he deserved, but did keep my position secure while he galloped laps because I didn't understand his buttons were so different haha.
 
Regarding the knee roll thing I think there may be a slight confusion in phrasing? Whether you are talking about the knee being against the actual knee roll, or just against the saddle?

The function of the knee and thigh rolls is just to support the leg when it is in the correct position - you don't adjust your leg position to meet them, and they should in no way impede you. The knee roll should be in front of the knee, that's how it works as support... if your knee is ON the knee roll, it will push your leg out of the correct position and make it more unstable. If the rider's knee is on the knee roll it indicates that the saddle does not fit them and/or that the stirrups are way too short. That's partly why a jumping saddle has more forward-cut flaps - to enable the rider to have the required short stirrups without finding their knee spills off the front of the saddle.

This is where the relevancy comes in about the saddle fitting the rider, and obviously riding RS horses in RS saddles this is often not going to happen - I totally feel your pain on this matter! Like you I have long thighs, and many GP saddles simply do not fit / suit my legs. Try to avoid getting into the habit of always having your stirrups the same length in every saddle / on every horse... instead you may find that lengthening or shortening them will help you adjust to the different saddle shapes.

I see no reason for an RI to teach that your knee should be on the knee roll specifically... I'm wondering if you didn't misinterpret her, and she was actually just saying that your knee should be closer to the SADDLE? Your knee shouldn't be turning away from the saddle, as this causes tension throughout the whole leg. I experimented today out on a hack and found it literally impossible to relax my thigh and calf muscles if my knees were turned out. As soon as my knee was back in its usual position against the saddle, the tension drained out of my leg. Forget this idea of your leg being closer to the knee rolls, as this depends on the saddle as mentioned above - focus instead on having the entire length of your thigh lying gently against the saddle, with your leg hanging long and relaxed beneath you and emitting all tension in the muscles. I'd suggest doing it without stirrups so that you are not allowing your stirrup length to influence your relaxation. Don't even think about doing anything with your knee, you will find that when your thigh is in the correct position your knees will naturally do the same.

If you originally developed the turned-out-knee habit in long stirrups, it may be that they were slightly TOO long and your leg was insecure, you couldn't squeeze inwards with your lower leg so you started turning your leg outwards when applying the aids. (This is a guess btw, just something I have noticed a fair bit whilst teaching.) If this was the case, then I can understand why you were told to have your stirrups shorter - but maybe you then went the other way and had them TOO short, and this just caused you a whole different set of problems!

Your stirrup length can have such a big impact on your leg position, do some experimenting with different lengths and see which issues get better or worse.
 
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