Current Horse Situation in Ireland

[cobmum]

I am a paid member of a rescue and rehoming site who tend to help horses over in Ireland.

Apparently, the situation over there is desperate due to the recession and lack of jobs therfore horses are being send to slaughter and there is a long long wait for that.

However, a tiny part of me feels that prehaps some of the breeders or dealers are taking advantage of this situation and the kind nature of the volunteers and supporters as many of the horses advertised throught the rehoming site are £300-450 then there is around £300-350 for transport. Often the pictures are heartbreaking as they are very thin and sad such as the one below

I understand that the price they want must match the meat price but it does make it a very expensive thing to do!!

I feel bad because i do want to help these horses and have been drawn towards a few. However, i would rather help one from say Beeston sales and it have to travel an hour max when its in a poor condition than pay probably double in transport costs and travel a horse for hours in very poor condition and pay a lot more for it.

Opinions really appreciated and please do not think i dont appreciate the hard work and dedication of the volunteers and people who rescue these poor horses because i do - i have upmost admiration for them

 

[Cortrasna]

Do not want to post on the forum my full thoughts on this Cobmum - frankly dont want to offend or upset anybody involved in rescuing horses from over here - albeit doing so with the best of intentions.

I will only say that I have looked into this as much as I am able - and IMO there is a scam culture going on over here with SOME dealers/owners playing on the poor condition and heading for slaughter threat.

Im sure there are genuine cases but very often, I feel it is something that is overstated in order to force rescue organisations and private rescuers to pay higher prices for these unfortunate horses.

I could take you to a local sale and you could pick up something relatively fit and healthy if rather neglected for very, very little money.

sorry if this doesnt go down well with other peoples take on it - but it is something that is making me extremely angry at the moment.

 

[cobmum]

Personally it is good to get an opinion from a horsey person who is living in ireland. A non horsey friend who lived of in Ashborne even mentioned that i shouldnt even consider rescuing from ireland because dealers are making money from it - more than then would for meat anyway. Other opinions would be appreciated....

 

[daisysp8]

I`m joined up on that site too .... I was thinking of helping a "rescue" but was put off by the prices. As sad as it is i can go to Holmfirth/Beeston/York sales and see the horses/ponies i want to bid on, and still only pay a couple of hundred pounds.

You can`t help them all

 

[Skippys Mum]

This argument used to rage on when D&T first rescued Vodka from France. At the end of the day, Vodka was pretty chuffed with the final outcome!

I challenge any of you to read her blog and not howl (start at the very beginning though and work through chronologically.

D&T, can you post the link to it please

 

[rtk]

I wouldn't blame anyone for letting their heart rule their head on this one. It breaks my heart too.

BUT and its a huge one, you can go to the sales over here and see the same, worse in some cases. They would be cheaper to buy and transport and the saving used for vets bills or to give them a real chance in life (or save 2).

Some of them will make nice horses with a little handling and care (the youngsters).

I own an oldie and it breaks my heart to see them, but the babies have never had a chance in life and in a lot of cases never will.

If I had the time and money, they are the ones I would save. Get them healthy and handled and then move them on to good homes so I could save some more.

Having said that, the only time I have actually done it was three years ago and "The Beast" is still with us

 

[Native Lover]

Its is heartbreaking I wanted to take one in but in the end the costs were far more than expected so I walked away.

You would be far better buying something from the UK sales there are always youngsters with there whole future ahead of them.who deserve a good home.

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

www.vodkadonkey.blogspot.com

This is Vodka and now Tintin's story. However she came over in March 2008 when things in the UK and Ireland were still buoyant and she was already at a meat plant and going for slaughter - Tintin was a pet donkey who ended up there in March 2010 just before the farm shut down due to the owner's illness and all the horses were culled. he was the last one out alive....and is the sweetest kindest donkey in the world.

Both of them cost around £1000 to rescue including transport - not long ago a decent donkey would cost £800-1000 and were hard to find i.e. you had to travel distances to find them. Now they are popping up more often and cheaper - some at the conwy December sales went for £1.00 but would depend on you being at Conwy and then transporting them, so would cost more than a French one if you are in Scotland. Even now they are selling at £400-600 each privately, but if you go to any of the sales like New Forest or Welsh ones, then they may be cheaper, but you have to be local to take advantage of that.

I think the Irish thing and the French things are different as there is an established meat trade using horse meat, and it has been going on for centuries, and there are farms which essentially farm horses for meat. In the past, they simply bred them and sold the foals for meat, but now it is CHEAPER for them to come over to the UK and Ireland and buy joblots of horses here and take them back - many Irish and UK horses and ponies are ending up at French fattening lots anywhere where their final destination is live export for slaughter - and being neglected till they go as they don't get any veterinary care, if they are poorly they go on the next lorry! The French farmers are buying up lorry loads at Beeston and other sales, such as the New Forest sales in October 2009 where lots of them ended up in France. Once they are at these farms, unless they are 'selected' to be rescued and paid for, they will go for meat, no doubt about it.

In Ireland, I know that the economic situation is dire but they already had an over supply of horses, and ponies in not great situations - welfare in Ireland for horses at the lower end has been an issue for some time.

BUT everyone has a choice, there may be a wait at abbatoirs who cannot process them fast enough, but you don't have to send them there, you can get a vet to shoot them and get fallen stock farm folks to take them away. You don't get paid for them, or at least not much, or the hunt kennels might take them, but you have options other than starving them to death and abandoning them. Sadly it all comes down to money and people have always been willing to extract the last £/Euro from horses, even when they have kept them as pets - even before the credit crunch how many elderly x children's pony club ponies ended up at sales? How many old hunters and riding horses? People have always been pretty ****ty towards their horses, but recently it has just got worse, and callousness and uncaring now can be hidden under the tag of credit crunch - i don't doubt there are many folks who are really finding it hard to keep their horses and going through agonies, but i doubt these are the ones who send them to the sales.....they try to get them rehomed, and if they can't then I think they are right in having them pts.

I am sure there are dealers who are playing on all this but there are also a number of Irish horses who have been rescued and brought to the UK and have died, as their condition was so bad they didn't pull through. I feel sad that they travelled and then died, as they must have had a miserable journey, we have had a few french ones die as well - one had colic, one foal got injured in transit and had to be pts - but on the other hand most of them have come over here and led very useful lives. One of the mares recently took part in a ploughing competition, with her six month foal walking beside her at the event!

At the moment there are so many horses in need that frankly if everyone who could would do something to take in one or two until things get better it would be more constructive than just criticising folks who try to do something even if you don't agree with it.

I am considering going to the local sale on Saturday to buy any donkeys that are in need - simply because I can then find good homes for them and sort them out.

All i can say is whatever you decide to do, they will thank you for it - Tintin loves life and is a large teddy bear of a donkey who adores people and is so laid back and kind. Vodka has matured into a feisty handsome donkey who plays like crazy with Tintin, who adores her. Their happiness and enjoyment of their lives gives me endless pleasure, and i don't care that they have french passports or bray in a funny accent, they are just wonderful pets.

 

[Cortrasna]

This argument used to rage on when D&T first rescued Vodka from France. At the end of the day, Vodka was pretty chuffed with the final outcome!

I challenge any of you to read her blog and not howl (start at the very beginning though and work through chronologically.

D&T, can you post the link to it please

Skippy's Mum I have followed Vodka's progress with great interest and have a very warm feeling that this donkey now has a secure and happy future. I take my hat of to D&T and anybody who rescues anything from anywhere.

I would urge you too to read my blog on KD and Baldy. I did not buy these from a dealer, I would not put bread on a dealer's table. To kill a monster you must starve it. BUT - although I am Irish I have an english acent from spending many years in England, so rather than buy a donkey for my brother that is already healthy and passported etc. etc. through normal channels, I decided to use my friend as a 'go between' to approach farmers who breed donkeys like rabbits, having no concern for their welfare or final destination.

If said farmers heard my accent the pathetic creatures value would woosh up in an instant, I would be regarded as either a gullible English woman with loads of dosh or a fluffy bunny intent on rescueing at any price. These donkeys arent even of value to the dealer or knackers - they are too thin and their weight is negligable. One cost E50 the other that is also half bald from lice infestation he was chucked in free!

My whole point on this issue is - if people stop buying to rescue from dealers the chain will not stop, but it will at least be slowed down and become less viable for these scum bags to earn a living directly related to the poor condition of the horse or donkey.

If anybody really wants to rescue anything from over here, and I would not stop anyone from doing so, God knows there are so many that need rescueing- then I urge you to hitch up your trailer, get a cheap ferry crossing and come to the smaller sales and pick up as many of these food chain animals as you are able to.

I would happily do anything I can to help anybody do this. But please, please do NOT feed the monster.

Incidentally the concern by OP of travelling one of these a long way over to England is almost non existent when you consider that any from here that do go for meat are more often than not heading for a long and sickening journey to Italy, to be fattened and slaughtered. Of course not all of them will survive that journey will they? So I think a journey across the sea to the UK isnt really something to be overly worried about?

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

given a lot of horses from the UK are going via Ireland to France and then onto Italy, the travelling times are just senseless but there you are, once the breeder/dealer has them on the lorry and money in pocket they don't care.

Vodka probably came from the east or south, as she was imported into France in October 2007 to the meat farm, she spent a miserable winter there and when we got her in March 2008 she was close to death. She was transported on slaughter papers, i have never seen such an emaciated donkey. She was so scared, unhandled, and completely defeated and depressed, I cried when I saw the state of her. It took her a good six months to pick up and lose her haunted look - but she is now very friendly and cheeky and has matured into a very handsome lady.

Tintin was in slightly better shape, being older and more resilient. He also had a full french passport, registered on the Haras National in 2004, so clearly was someone's pet, not a purpose bred meat donkey. This is what i find so sad, he has clearly, before us, known kindness, as he is so loving and friendly. His feet were very bad, he was bald from lice, and very quiet and sad. He is now still a quiet lad to handle, but far from sad - full of life and hope, he bounces like a Tigger. He is happy to be here. He and Vodka love each other to bits, it is so touching to see how much he has brightened up with her youthful exuberance, and she now had a playmate her own age and size - they really fight rough but they are so happy.

Tintin was saved only because we had raised enough money to buy a mare and foal, who were going to stay in France, but by the time we got the money together, they had gone for slaughter. As tintin was a gelding, I stuck up my hand and said I would give him a home as a friend for Vodka. So he came instead, just three weeks before the farm closed and he would have been on the lorry to Italy, when I look at him asleep in the sun in the field, and think how narrowly he missed going, it breaks my heart. It just shows how fate/luck/kismet plays such a part in these animals' lives, they can get a good break or not.

If you see the thread about the ginger beastie rescued from the sales, it is totally outrageous that such a nice horse was sent to the sales and just missed going for meat - and that the passport that accompanied him was certainly not his. How do we know he wasn't stolen? the passporting situation is hopeless, when they brought it in they should have insisted on them being chipped or freezemarked, these costs would have stopped some of the low grade breeders and at least made the horses traceable.