difficulty achieving correct leg position

[stigofthedump]

Hi. I am an older rider and have been having weekly lessons (in a group) for a few years. I don't have good balance and know this affects my progress. However every week I try really hard to get my legs in the correct position and every week the RI tells me to move my legs back. I am getting fed up of this and beginning to lose confidence because I feel that my legs ARE back. I often wonder if the stirrup length affects how well a rider can keep their legs in the correct position. I think a private lesson might help but they are very expensive so a private lesson is really only a rare treat for me. I have also looked at some YouTube videos but can't find one that helps. Advice and tips please.

 

[carthorse]

Stirrup length and saddle style will have some impact, but I would hope your RI is bearing that in mind.

When you try to get your legs back what do you do? It's very easy to just think of your lower leg, but in reality you need to loosen you hips, and to a degree knees, and move your whole leg back underneath you more. Sometimes it helps to think what would happen to you if your horse magically vanished from, underneath you - would you be left standing on your feet or would you fall over? If you look at pictures of top class riders in different disciplines you'll see that, within certain limits, no matter what length their stirrups are their leg is underneath them not in front or behind.

It may help you if you do some stretches aimed to loosen your joints up before you ride, and don't focus on pushing your heels down as that will automatically push your leg forward into a brace position - you don't say that that's something you do but the two problems are often linked.

 

[stigofthedump]

Stirrup length and saddle style will have some impact, but I would hope your RI is bearing that in mind.

When you try to get your legs back what do you do? It's very easy to just think of your lower leg, but in reality you need to loosen you hips, and to a degree knees, and move your whole leg back underneath you more. Sometimes it helps to think what would happen to you if your horse magically vanished from, underneath you - would you be left standing on your feet or would you fall over? If you look at pictures of top class riders in different disciplines you'll see that, within certain limits, no matter what length their stirrups are their leg is underneath them not in front or behind.

It may help you if you do some stretches aimed to loosen your joints up before you ride, and don't focus on pushing your heels down as that will automatically push your leg forward into a brace position - you don't say that that's something you do but the two problems are often linked.

Thanks for that. RI just says "legs back" and "heels down" so in response I bring my lower leg back which makes a heel down position very difficult and usually encourages me to tip even further forward than I am. End result is I feel even more unbalanced than ever. I look at other more experienced riders in the group and notice their lower legs aren't actually back, they are, as you say, underneath them so I am very confused! I guess I am told "legs back" so that my legs end up underneath me. I am not aware that my legs are that far forward. Perhaps the RI should be saying "legs are too far forward" rather than "legs back". Maybe I will have to splash out (bank loan LOL) on a private lesson and try to get this problem sorted.

 

[Skib]

What happens when you ride with no stirrups?
If you are comfortable and balanced on the horse, I wouldnt worry about leg position. Most pics of me on my old share show me with a chair seat.
If you press down on the stirrups forcing your heels down, that will inevitably raise your seat a little bit out of the saddle. Which isnt good for stability or communication with the horse through your seat.
As I have posted before, not a single RI has ever mentioned leg position to me.

 

[carthorse]

@stigofthedump from what you say I suspect the true problem is probably tightness in your hips so that your upper leg is in one position and your lower leg is trying hard to compensate. Ironically the harder you try to get your lower leg in the desired position the more you're probably tensing up because you feel insecure and the tighter you get through your hips and knees, it's a vicious circle. Next time you ride try taking your knees away from the saddle slightly and opening your hips so that your legs can hang down more and see how that feels and looks. I'll warn you that to begin with it's not as easy as it sounds, but if you can open your hips your knee will naturally move back and put your whole leg in a better position as well as making you feel more secure. And as I said before some stretches on the ground before you ride may also help, particularly if you ride a fairly wide horse. By all means play about with stirrup length to see if it makes a difference, but ultimately that isn't really the issue.

 

[Jessey]

Perhaps you could get someone to take a picture of you in your normal comfortable riding position so that you can see what your leg position looks like, a chair seat is not desirable as causes you to be heavier on the horses back (and potentially injure it) and less secure should anything like a spook occur. Once you have seen what is going on you may find it easier to address. Thinking about moving the whole leg back is definitely important, not just the lower leg.

 

[stigofthedump]

What happens when you ride with no stirrups?
If you are comfortable and balanced on the horse, I wouldnt worry about leg position. Most pics of me on my old share show me with a chair seat.
If you press down on the stirrups forcing your heels down, that will inevitably raise your seat a little bit out of the saddle. Which isnt good for stability or communication with the horse through your seat.
As I have posted before, not a single RI has ever mentioned leg position to me.

I have asked about riding without stirrups but none of the RIs will let any rider ride without stirrups because they are conscious of Health and Safety issues.

 

[stigofthedump]

Perhaps you could get someone to take a picture of you in your normal comfortable riding position so that you can see what your leg position looks like, a chair seat is not desirable as causes you to be heavier on the horses back (and potentially injure it) and less secure should anything like a spook occur. Once you have seen what is going on you may find it easier to address. Thinking about moving the whole leg back is definitely important, not just the lower leg.

The RI posted this photo on FB of a recent lesson. I am on the grey pony in the background. I had no idea that my riding position looked so bad. I am leaning forward with legs straight down. On this lesson I tried really hard to maintain a more correct position. i.e. sitting up straight and legs back. This is why I am getting fed up. I think this bad riding position could explain why I have difficulty asking a pony/horse to move forward.

 

[Doodle92]

To be honest from that picture it dosnt look like the saddle is helping you. Looks like a very round pony with potentially a too narrow saddle. So the saddle is lower at the back which in turn throws your weight to the back and shoots your legs forward. So you are fighting a bit of a loosing battle.

 

[Skib]

I agree that the saddle looks too small. But we RS riders often have no choice.
But you could alter the length of your stirrups and reins.
The picture shows that your thighs are almost parallel to the ground. They should slope down.
We were told to sit up so that the top of our head points to the sky,

So lengthen both your stirrups and reins. Then you can sit up tall and straighten your back, and see what happens.

As for weight to the back - my own RI taught us to ride that way. I still ride like that. But she explained some RI experts taught the opposite and weight forward.

 

[Doodle92]

It is very easy to say that tho and of course that is what op is trying to do. But perhaps the saddle isn't helping and so making a difficult job even harder.

Op if you can before you get on, or after you get off, stand back and look at the saddle. If you imagine the mid point of the saddle, between the pommel and the cantle. Then look again and see if that mid point in the deepest part of the seat. If the deepest part of the saddle is towards the back it will be pushing you back too.

 

[stigofthedump]

To be honest from that picture it dosnt look like the saddle is helping you. Looks like a very round pony with potentially a too narrow saddle. So the saddle is lower at the back which in turn throws your weight to the back and shoots your legs forward. So you are fighting a bit of a loosing battle.

O dear. Fighting a losing battle. Will have to think about what to do. Part of the problem is that the riding Centre has so few big ponies/ horses available for adults that I am given one of the small ponies to ride (I am 5ft 3ins tall) if there is one or more taller adults in the class, like the pony and rider in the foreground of the photo.

 

[carthorse]

I'd suggest trying to get a few private lessons where you and the instructor can concentrate on correcting your position, not just telling you what's wrong.

In an ideal world you should have a straight line from ear - shoulder - hip - ankle and the front of your trunk should be the same length as the back. As you can see you're missing nearly every point. You have a chair seat, ie legs way in front of you, and that has pushed you to the back of the saddle. You're leaning forward probably because you feel insecure with where your legs and seat are, but you've also collapsed your middle which further weakens your position. Imo security comes from the leg and seat, and I bet if you could "just" sort your leg position out a lot of the rest would fall into place because you'd immediately feel more balanced and with the horse as opposed to bracing against it.

If your RI can't or won't help you with this - and saying legs back/heels down/sit up is no help whatsoever since you don't know how to do that and if you did it wouldn't be an issue - then I'd suggest going somewhere else for some private lessons. Explain the problem before you go, and be prepared to spend time in halt and walk getting it right, it will make a huge difference to all your riding.

I suspect I've sounded like I'm tearing you to pieces and that isn't my aim. It can be fixed! And the first step has been taken, namely realising it needs to be fixed. Go for it!

 

[carthorse]

@stigofthedump the saddle size may be far less of an issue, if indeed it is an issue, if you sort your leg out as that will immediately bring your hips and seat forward.

 

[Doodle92]

Meaning "if" the saddle is putting you in that position it will be very hard to fight against physics. But I am saying this from one not ideal pic. Which is why I said to look at the saddle before you get on. I didn't mean that YOU are not going to get anywhere.

 

[Jessey]

Unfortunately that picture does show a classic chair seat which is not ideal.

Off a horse, with your feet shoulder width apart, if you bend your legs to 120-140 degrees, so you are partially squatting, well that’s basically your riding position, if you lean forwards you fall, if you don’t keep your heels under your hips you fall, if you lean back you fall……see the link you don’t really sit on a horse like a chair but maintain that very unusual position that actually requires strength in muscles not used for anything else in life!

It will come with practice, even if a saddle isn’t helping you, persevere and you will no doubt succeed and some 1-2-1 lessons is probably a great idea to help you start building the right muscle memory. And you will find it much easier to get a horse going forward once you are balanced, the horse will find it easier so will likely take less encouragement to get going! But remember RS horses often know every trick in the book to get out of too much hard work so it may not all be about you

 

[Skib]

RS horses often know every trick in the book to get out of too much hard work

True, but more positive than that, many RS ponies stop if they feel the rider is unbalanced. Or if the rider does not want to go fast. And especially wont canter in the school for learners they think are anxious about canter. So there is a no win situation. One RS mare cantered easily for me but wouldnt for another student. But I was more likely to be run away with than the other rider was, and still am.

 

[carthorse]

True, but more positive than that, many RS ponies stop if they feel the rider is unbalanced. Or if the rider does not want to go fast. And especially wont canter in the school for learners they think are anxious about canter. So there is a no win situation. One RS mare cantered easily for me but wouldnt for another student. But I was more likely to be run away with than the other rider was, and still am.

Hence why most of us are encouraging the OP to sort out her position and giving her tips that will hopefully help. Once her position is sorted she'll be more balanced and secure which will allow the horse to move more freely forward, and if it doesn't she'll be more able to encourage it and if needs be insist. It will also mean that on a more forward type she's less likely to get run off with and will be in a stronger position to deal with it if one tries, not to mention far less likely to fall off. I don't see any no win situation if a school horse is reasonably schooled and the rider is reasonably balanced.

 

[stigofthedump]

I'd suggest trying to get a few private lessons where you and the instructor can concentrate on correcting your position, not just telling you what's wrong.

In an ideal world you should have a straight line from ear - shoulder - hip - ankle and the front of your trunk should be the same length as the back. As you can see you're missing nearly every point. You have a chair seat, ie legs way in front of you, and that has pushed you to the back of the saddle. You're leaning forward probably because you feel insecure with where your legs and seat are, but you've also collapsed your middle which further weakens your position. Imo security comes from the leg and seat, and I bet if you could "just" sort your leg position out a lot of the rest would fall into place because you'd immediately feel more balanced and with the horse as opposed to bracing against it.

If your RI can't or won't help you with this - and saying legs back/heels down/sit up is no help whatsoever since you don't know how to do that and if you did it wouldn't be an issue - then I'd suggest going somewhere else for some private lessons. Explain the problem before you go, and be prepared to spend time in halt and walk getting it right, it will make a huge difference to all your riding.

I suspect I've sounded like I'm tearing you to pieces and that isn't my aim. It can be fixed! And the first step has been taken, namely realising it needs to be fixed. Go for it!

You have covered all the issues I had suspected were wrong and more. Thanks for that. I have considered all the useful tips and advice from you and other members and decided to contact another riding centre which I have been told offers private lessons. Maybe a different instructor will be more helpful/patient and explain how to correct problems rather than just telling me legs back. I might be really lucky and ride a bigger pony or horse which is better suited to me. Thanks to everyone.

 

[carthorse]

Good for you @stigofthedump , well done in making the first step . I hope the lessons there go well and help you get this sorted, if they do I suspect you'll come on in leaps and bounds. For what i's worth I don't think the pony looks too small for you in the photo, but you may find that when you start working on your position something a bit narrower makes it easier until you've got more flexibility in your hips.

Will you keep us posted with how you get on? It's interesting to follow the progress of someone who's genuinely trying rather than making excuses, and from a purely selfish point of view I sometimes find something is said that makes me think and I can learn from