Do you think the age for Ridden Veterans should change?

Gnasher

Gnasher

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Sep 19, 2005
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As a disclaimer, I may simply be a bitter old moo because I have showed a 23yr old pony in Ridden Veteran and been beaten by much younger horses!

But yes, question as per the title...is 15 too young to be accepted into a RV class?

IMO yes, because at 15 a fair few horses are still in their prime, and therefore not veterans. I've recently seen riders enter the Ridden Horse or Ridden Hunter and so on and so forth, then enter the Veterans. In my opinion if the horse is young and fit enough to enter these classes competitively, do well and still have the oomph to go round the ring again, it isn't a veteran. Yes a veteran should be fit enough to show, but doing a string of classes then the veterans doesn't seem right to me!

Karen xx
 
I have noticed in my local shows the veteran age has gone up to 18. There is usually a rosette for the oldest in class too.

Not that I can take my oldie who is 23 in as he is too naughty and in the last class I had to excuse myself :eek:
 
i think 15 is too young. with my 29yo arab i have only just started to notice her age (possibly as i am more experienced around horses) but a few years ago she really didn't look that old. your right in saying it isn't really fair for the horse to compete in the normal classes and do well then enter the veterens. i would love to take my oldie to a show. they often say display age, if i get a chance next year i'll get one of those badges from birthday cards, 30 should be easy to find. don't know how i would think of displaying 29... borrow some affilated dressage/jumping things that rap round the bridle... ok off topic again
yes i think it should be raised to at least 18 if not 20. after 18 i think it is a lot harder to make a horse more supple for showing, you can generally only keep them at the suppleness they have at 18
 
Bonnie did a few VHS classes when she was 15/16 years old and i always felt really bad because she was often the youngest in the class, hence a bit more spritely than some of the older ones. She led a charmed life so didn't look her age at all.

Tobs will be 15 in 2 years time and by no stretch of the imagination could i then class him as a veteran. He's as batty today as he was as a 3 year old :rolleyes:

i'd think the limit should be about 20. but even then a lot carry on full work well into their 20's.....
 
it sometimes depends on the breed too, clydesdales are not generally long lived where as shires are so a veteren clydesdale will be younger than the shire.
i think the reason horses are classed as veterans at 15 is because for every 1 of their years it is meant to be the equivelent of 4 of outs. so a 4 year old horse=16yo teen hence why people start working a horse at 4.
a 9yo horse (36yo person) is in their prime working hard
at 15 (60 for a human) the horse is becoming a pensioner!
So i think that has something to do with it. I am proud to say my horse is 116 years old ;)
 
Yes - I think that the insurance companies need to recognise this as well.

Peri is regarded as a veteran at 17yo but she is about to return to competition (been on maternity leave) at FEI level dressage (PSG/Inter I). I have to explain to the insurance company every year why it is justifiable to maintain her insured value (they never quibble, but it is an irritating bit of paperwork).

Her half-brother is a genuine veteran at 25yo and wouldn't stand a chance against her in a ridden class.

I know the VHS now class her as a pre-veteran and divide their classes into age groups.
 
In a simplific word 'no' I dont.

Most shows now have their veterans split into age groups, following the example the VHS has set.

15 is classified as a veteran and simply on the day its luck of the draw of what you are up against and also judges preference as with everything.

I would also agree that a fit healthy veteran thats upto a few classes, is of course more worthy of winning than an 'old' in its way veteran who can barely sustain a class, thats the whole point of showing the veterans, to show how 'good' they are/look/act against other ages.

It should not be changed, but more venues should be encouraged to split the age groups as the VHS do.
 
Agree with MeMe.

My Anglo turns 15 next year and I plan to enter him in the usual classes i tend to enter AND the Veterans, nope he doesn't look his age, and yep he's capable of lots, hopefully that is what a judge is looking for in a "Veteran"
 
I show my veteran mare, who is now 20n years old, and a pure bred arabian, in both the ridden Arab, handy pony (cos she is only 14.2hh) and Ridden Veteran...we have also done dressage, jumping, one day events... and many other things. I usually get asked what her age is, as she is looking extremely well, and she acts like a 2 yr old...last time I was in the ridden veteran at my local club...which holds the shows about 5 or 6 miles away, and we hack there and back, she ran off with me, because the heavy hunters were galloping in the next ring, and she wanted to play with them!

I think the veterans classes should be split according to age...then give us all a fair go!
 
Do the judges take age into account?

Something I have wondered about in these classes...does the judge take the horse's age into account, or is it purely based on which horse looks/performs the best, irrespective of age?

It does seem unfair if age is not considered at all - as has been said here, 15 really isn't old, and cannot possibly be judged on a fair basis alongside a 25 year old.
 
MeMe said:
In a simplific word 'no' I dont.

Most shows now have their veterans split into age groups, following the example the VHS has set.

15 is classified as a veteran and simply on the day its luck of the draw of what you are up against and also judges preference as with everything.

I would also agree that a fit healthy veteran thats upto a few classes, is of course more worthy of winning than an 'old' in its way veteran who can barely sustain a class, thats the whole point of showing the veterans, to show how 'good' they are/look/act against other ages.

It should not be changed, but more venues should be encouraged to split the age groups as the VHS do.
Click to expand...

Agree completely with that. There are always going to be "young" and "old" horses around any age limit that is set, so I don't see why it needs changing, other than being split into smaller classes of more similar horses. If a horse isn't up to a ridden hunter class, it's hardly up to a veterans class (due to the very high entries!) where it should still be a ridden hunter, if that makes sense.
 
horsemad said:
Something I have wondered about in these classes...does the judge take the horse's age into account, or is it purely based on which horse looks/performs the best, irrespective of age?

It does seem unfair if age is not considered at all - as has been said here, 15 really isn't old, and cannot possibly be judged on a fair basis alongside a 25 year old.
Click to expand...

It's based (or should be based) on the horses condition for it's age. So a mediocre example of a 15 year old, should come under a good 24 year old, even though the 15 year old may have less arthritis, carry more muscle etc.

I suspect it's a hard class to judge, purely as horses, like people, age at such different rates. So yes, age should be taken into account, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor - condition for age should be.
 
In my experiences RV classes are not judged in comparison to age, as age is only asked for at the end if the organiser is awarding an 'eldest horse' rosette.

If it was judged according to age the admittance of horses as young as 15 makes much more sense.

I dunno, I can recognise the points put forward by others, but still, to me, a 15yr old isn't veteran material these days.

To clarify, I wasn't saying a horse who is fit enough to compete in other classes is too fit for the veterans, I'm saying a horse who is competitively fit ie winning. For example at a recent show the horse who took 2nd in the veterans also won Riding Club pony, a class for which they had to qualify at previous shows and which had a significant number of entries. I'm pleased for that horse and rider team, but seriously, if you're winning in open classes, why do you need to go in the veteran too?

I interpret veterans as being an opportunity for horses who wouldn't do well in open classes any longer to show off the talents they still have. Toad used to show at county level in WHP and SHP...I wouldn't enter her in a local hunter pony class now as she's not up to scratch, therefore we go in the veterans. I don't care that we don't win, we go for fun, to give Toad a chance to remember her glory days, but it just seems odd in the veterans to be competing against horses that are the age she was when she was winning at county shows.
 
I completely disagree with you that the veteran classes are just for below-standard horses. It's not a novelty class by any stretch of the imagination, it is an open showing class in the same way that hunters and riding club pony classes are.

Poor conformation can be somewhat overlooked, as it's more about condition for age, but that doesn't mean it's a showing class for rejects and that decent horses shouldn't be allowed in it. If a veteran can still hold it's own in type classes, then it's obviously in good working order for it's age, and probably deserves to win the veteran class.

If your pony used to do county, it could still win in type classes, if it's really that good it's age wont really matter. Yes some judges are that shallow, but a lot aren't.

If my horse was below par for his M&M ridden classes, I wouldn't dream of doing any veteran classes. For me, if he isn't good enough to show (and that doesn't mean winning, it means coping with the class and performing well), he isn't good enough to show and I'm fine with that.

Edited to say, if you've ever seen the qualifiers for the olympia qualifiers, you'll realise that the standard in those classes is very very high. I think it's probably one of the most hotly contested groups of classes in the country!
 
Sorry Daffy I've given you the wrong impression. I'm not talking about below par horses, I'm talking about well conformed, well mannered horses with good paces, who now look 'older'...ie they don't have quite the same coat condition, their fitness might not be as good, they might have the odd 'battle scar'. A 23yr old horse, no matter how good it was in it's day, may well have had it's day for being a competitive hunter etc. That, to me, is why the veteran classes exist.

There is of course a high level of competition in veterans at higher levels...I am in awe of the condition of some of the top veterans, but they do still have signs of their age.

Oo and also to clarify, my definition of 'open' was that there aren't restrictions on the age etc of entrants (not that that makes sense because riding horses must be 4+ but anyway). I was using it as shorthand for saying hutner classes, ridden horse classes etc.

Anyways, I stand by my opinion...an entrant in a veteran class should be in good condition and should be a showing-suitable animal, but I don't believe it should necessarily be still capable of winning a M&M, hunter etc class...it's a veteran, that means it's had it's day at the top of mainstream competing and is now competed against aged horses.

Karen xx
 
hey

just thought id say i understand everybodys points of view and their thoughts on this subject but i do feel myself that the age for veterans should be raised up from 15 as these days horses are living longer lives.
if this is unable to happen then i think the veteran classes should be split into age groups, and also the horses condition against there age should be considered.

lozzie an pinxx
 
When I've seen Veteran classes, it has been in comparison to age. I was at a show where a friend's friend's 32 yr old was in a ridden veteran class, and won. Now the class was fairly full and there were some nice horses that looked nearer the lower age limit, but this 30+ year old still won. No, he didn't look the best in there, but he went well in all paces and he went the best for his age. It was most definitely judged with age in mind.

Yes, it'd be nice if more shows could split veterans into age groups, but in reality there normally aren't enough entries to warrant it. And that takes more judges' time, possibly more rings etc.
 
Gnasher, you are completely wrong. My mare, who is a pure bred arabian, still shows at county level, and next year, I am hoping to qualify for some of the bigger shows. We do veteran classes, to show her off as a very good example of her age and breed, not cos she is past it! I hack to and from the local shows, and apart from Windgalls, and you point out a horse that does as much roadwork as mine, and doesn't have them, she is sound, happy, and healthy.

I refuse to believe that we are there to make up the numbers on show days, we are a genuine class, with some seriously fantastic horses in it. The judge will have a preference for type, and maybe colour...but age should be the deciding factor. The age limit maybe should be raised, but only to 16, as some look great at 15, but 12 months later can look like a different horse.
 
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