Encouraging forwardness

C

crinklesb

New Member
Jun 18, 2009
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Scottish Borders
www.bowhill-stables.co.uk
Hi,

I am looking for some help with my boy. We have spent the last 6 months working really hard on our schooling and we are really improving after an injury meant he had a year off and we missed much of his formative years. I bought him when he was turning 6, he is now 8 but has been slow to mature (he grew from 16.2 - 17.2 in a year!). I want to enter some shows this year if we can perfect our ridden show as so many people have said how well he would do in ridden coloured classes. He's 17.2hh IDxTB and really very pretty for a big horse (but then I'm biased!).

He has learnt lots and is now doing walk-canter-walk transitions, rein back,leg yield, shoulder in, counter shoulder in, turn on the forehand and we are starting half pass. His work in canter and walk is ok but his trot continues to be poor.

My trouble is forwardness. Although he know exactly what I am asking him do in the school and does most of the movements quite well he is never as forward as I would like him to be. I feel as though I am constantly nagging and its all bit too much effort for us both. I would love it if he would be more energetic and responsive in the school moving off my leg better. Hacking is no problem and it takes the lightest of touches, even when I make him do leg yields across the tracks.

I have been trying to improve things by using rein back before pushing forward into trot to get his back up. I've also been doing his canter work first to get him awake and more energetic. This has helped a little but we're still having problems. I'm sure at a show he would be very forward!! but I need him to do it at home so we can improve his going and have him always up into the bridle.

Does anyone have any tips of things I could try to help us?
 
Hi. Ihad a similar problem with my mare - a cob. She isn't lazy but pulled herself along on her forehand.

I did lots of work in the school. I asked politely with my legs once - a squeeze - if she ignored it I got a little 'ruder' and gave a sharp nudge and if she ignored that (she would speed up for a stride or two then drop back again) I nudged with the legs along with a sharp tap with the schooling whip. once she was moving I left her completely alone with my legs so as not to nag - if you constantly squeeze with your legs your horse will just start to turn off and ignore you. They have to learn that a polite ask with your legs means go faster please and stay there until I ask differently. Lots of transitions - walk, halt, walk, trot, halt etc - to keep them thinking and waiting for your next request. rein back helps especially when used in amongst the transitions. Canter should come from a balanced, forward trot. i don't canter my mare in the school at the moment because we are still working on balance and flexion and canter work makes her anticipate and stop listening properly.

Make sure that when you give a proper kick to get the desired response that you allow with your hands - if you try to hold in the front end and ask for speed they just get confused and run into the bit. When you give the 'rude' kick they sometimes leap forward - they have to be able to do that even if they go onto trot because they are doing what you asked. Make sure you don't give two conflicting aids at the same time - don't worry about 'on the bit' until your horse is balanced and forward thinking.

Transitions get them off their front end and more onto their hocks - it has done wonders for Dora - a friend rode her a couple of months ago and she was very heavy on the hand a rode like a 'board', she rode her again a couple of weeks ago and said she was like a different horse, light, off the leg and far more supple :dance: - simply through repetative stop start bend exercises every few days, which is all she gets ridden.

Keep the aids simple, as light as possible and consistent - they soon pick up what you are asking for. :wink:

Schooling out on a hack is a brill idea - it makes exercises fun for both of you and flexion comes in really handy on roads etc when you need them to listen to you and not spook at a wheely bin!

Hope this helps a bit - I can only give advice on my own experience and this has worked for us. :happy:
 
My young warmblood has the same problem. Forward movement is something I think needs to be constantly reinforced. Every time I introduce something new to her, I have to spend time again reinforcing getting in front of my leg again. What worked really well for me is to stop myself from doing all the work. I put in her a trot with a very light squeeze. It helped me when my trainer reminded me that horses can feel a fly on their skin and they are that sensitive. If she doesn't take a featherlight aid, I use my crop. If she shoots forward I let her go and do it again. I start just at a walk and moving into the trot until she has that down pat. Then when I keep her in a trot same thing. If I feel her start to lag in any way, I give her a featherlight squeeze again, if she doesn't respond immediately tap with my crop. I had to actually retrain myself not to keep on her and make her do the work. Its really hard to even work on your seat and riding when you are constantly at your horse with your leg to keep going forward. If I feel myself starting to have to do too much work with my leg, I go back to the same steps starting from a walk. It gets better with time but like I said, every time I introduce something new and she is confused or resists, she gets behind the leg. I was told this is something that they do even with Grand Prix horses too. Its all part of the routine and making sure they are sharp on their forward aids.
 
Thanks for that. Its good advice and I am trying the same method.. if only the ice would go away and our school would defrost that is! I agree its is hard to not keep on all the time and it is incredibly hard to keep a good seat and position if you are always nagging. I have to say I have already seen improvements in our lateral work and turn on the forehand is much better with me using my crop as a back up. He always know what to do but was lazy with his quarters and no amount of leg seemed to help. Onwards and upwards!
 
Yes it always seems like 1 baby step forward, 2 giant steps back in the training process. Especially with the young ones. My WB mare was doing exceptionally well. I only worked on forward and contact with her and she took to it so well I thought I was on cloud nine. Then tried to add some "baby" lateral work and she fell to pieces. Now she won't turn to the right. She is physically capable of it but for some reason she wants to run as fast as she can through her outside (left) shoulder with her head cranked around to the right (inside). No amount of holding with the outside rein or pushing with the outside leg will get her off that left shoulder coming around. Its just in a trot and not in a canter or walk. Totally weird. She is naturally crooked to the right and has short muscles on that side so has always tended to way over bend to the right on turns but now it is like we are coming around the bend and running through the outside shoulder and feel like we are going to crash. It stinks. I am giving her some time off and going back to just forward and contact and forgetting any lateral work which confused the heck out of her for now but it is so hard to work on forward when you almost crash every time coming around one way. To the left, she is super awesome!
 
Bob is no baby but he's had alot of time off with injury and he didn't really grow into himself until he turned 8 last year.

Have you tried doing your lateral work in hand to get her more supple on the right rein? I find it does wonders and you can really see what is going on from the ground. To help keep straightness I use loose side reins while in hand attached to the bit or cavesson and this stops them running out the side and develops the muscles properly to allow them to do it. Worth a try?
 
I haven't used side reins with her yet but yes I introduced the lateral work in hand first. She seems to do really well on the ground but still hesitant to keep her neck straight when doing it. She just really wants to over bend her neck to the right for everything and has since she was started. I am giving her some time off to let her regroup herself....she had somewhat of a meltdown a few days ago that left her way too anxious about her right turns so I am giving her a vacation so to speak. When I start up again, I am probably just going to go back to all ground work and attach loose side reins to a lunging caveson rather than to the bit so she doesn't feel too restricted. I think if she were to be able to figure out how to balance better on the ground without having to over bend and run through her outside shoulder, things will get better and she will be able to develop more correctly. I know there are a lot of opinions about not using auxiliary or side reins on the youngsters but letting her run around on the lunge in the same way over bent to the inside is not going to help her either.
 
I think as long as you use them with caution and loosely then they are fine. Bob is the same in that he turns into a bit of a banana when when do some lateral work but the side reins keep him straight and I found in just a couple of session that he became straighter. Its much better to use side reins and enable them to work properly rather than escaping it al the time.

For lunging I use the single rein set, side rein on the outside, lunge line on the inside attached to the roller and then through the bit/cavesson. This works well to stop overbend so might be good for your girl?
 
Haha banana...that about sums it up for my mare. She is a permanent banana poor thing. She is just naturally crooked, which I think is kinda weird considering she is very well built otherwise. I had some people yelling at me saying, she has to be sore or there is something physically wrong with her after she had her meltdown and then refused her right turns again. It was funny cuz we turned her out in the pasture to play and she was bucking and running and rearing and doing flying lead changes and yes going to the right with no problem. I was like, "yeah this horse is hurting alright." Two hours later she was still trying to get the older horses to play with her. I am just going to follow my instincts and take your advice with the side reins. You are right, it is not going to help to let her run around in that shape anymore. So thanks for the encouragement.
 
Thats ok! Try the single rein set on the lunge too.

What I find is that Bob is actually quite lazy with his quarters. So his quarters kind of get left behind and out comes the banana. He is better in hand than ridden so I am working on him using his quarters better.

The other good movement for straightness is half pass. Have you tried that yet? It takes a bit of getting used to as everything seems back to front but it works wonders. We do it in hand at the moment. Not attempted ridden.
 
I haven't tried half pass yet but I have introduced leg yield from the ground and actually in the saddle she seems to do leg yield quite well too. I have talked to my trainer and she agrees we should institute some side reins to help straighten her up a bit. She is having me attach then to the lunging cavesson only first to see how she does with it and then we will see about attaching to the bit. I have actually never used side reins with the in-hand lateral work. That is a great tool I will have to use. Thanks a bunch for your help and input! I'll let ya know how we progress.
 
Its works well, we did some last night and the difference is amazing. Bob has been coming back after some physio on his shoulder so I haven't done it in a while. We do Classical Inhand so do a 4 track Shoulder In which is more exaggerated than a normal shoulder in (both front and back legs crossing and going at a 45 degree angle to the long side). He was so much better. Take is easily though, 2-3 mins is enough for him at the moment and he's done it before so your girl may only manage 30 secs to start with. The difference in the effort he needs to keep himself straight is quite enlightening. The reins are loose and he is not forced into an outline at all but everything obviously has to work so much harder since he can't go into the banana. I just now need to work on my arms mimicking the side reins!!! When I got on afterwards the banana was back!

Where about do you live? If you are anywhere in Scotland/North England you should come to one of our demo days that our instructor does?
 
I actually live in Ohio, USA. I did the first lunging session with side reins to cavesson today. About 5 minutes. She was very resistant to it because I realized she is so used to running around falling out her shoulders that the outside influence on her trot threw her through a loop. She had a bit of a hissy fit with her head trying to shake off that outside rein but when she went into her canter, it was magically beautiful. I was actually quite shocked to see how much more lively and free her canter was with her a bit more straight and she held it sooo much longer. She actually seemed to realize how much more easier it was for her too cuz she didn't want to stop cantering and usually she can't hold her canter for much longer than 1 circle. Her trot was horrible though. Head shaking, resistant, tense and awkward. She had no tension on the side reins either so I am going to keep them loose and just attached to the cavesson for a few weeks until she gets some more balance and gets used to that tiny bit of outside influence.
 
Ah ok, Ohio is a bit far to come I guess!!!

If she is resistant I would start by just leading her at first in walk, get her to do some basic groundwork e.g. walk, halt, back, moving her shoulders and quarters. Do it on both reins so she can realise there is nothing to be worried about and she can get the feel of them.

Sounds like she will come on really fast once she gets used to them!
 
Yeah I am going back to basic groundwork with her for a few weeks and getting the kinks out. The only concern I had with the side reins today was the fact that any pressure makes her trot around with her nose literally almost in the dirt. She has total freedom to carry her head wherever she wants seeing as the side reins are pretty slack and she can raise and lower as she pleases but still a little weird looking to see it. Should this worry me or should I just move her along without too much worry? If I try to push her on a bit to get her more forward and lifting her head, she has that terrible fussiness with shaking her head. Again, I stress to anyone reading, my side reins are not attached in a draw rein position and are only attached the cavesson right now with no bit. They are long with hardly any influence unless she wants to over bend to the inside too much.
 
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