Feed supplements - talk me out of this

[Bodshi]

Raf is on full livery and his basic feed is included in the price. Anything extra I have to buy myself. So he gets 'nuts and chop' (and plenty of hay) as his basic feed, then on top he gets speedibeet (to keep weight on), formula 4 feet, soya oil and, at the moment, msm (query over ligament problem when the physio came).

I read on another forum someone recommending Baileys Outshine for helping keep topline on over winter when they're not doing so much work. One thing led to another and I now see there are several feeds/supplements (Blue Chip was recommended to me by YO) that claim to keep topline and muscle on the horse.

Before I go and spend all my money on yet more supplements, does anyone know is it really possible to keep muscle on a horse when they're having limited exercise? I only ride Raf at weekends in the winter, and that's quite limited if the fields are flooded/ice on the roads/fog etc. We have no hills so his bum does get scrawny in winter and I'd love to stop this happening.

I can't change his basic feed so there's no point even thinking about that.

 

[Pigletsmum]

Don't do I!!!!

I reckon outshine is mainly oil and fibre anyway which you're already feeding? If anytng I'd maybe change the soya oil for charnwood milling linseed.

I've got really lazy with all frankies supplements and tbh I've not noticed any difference, he's certainly no worse .

 

[Bodshi]

Thanks Pigletsmum. I actually have tried the linseed (I'm always trying stuff) but it made him really odd. I tried it 3 times because I thought it might be a co-incidence (the first time a mare had also been introducted into the block so I thought it might have been that instead) but he was the same every time. He got frisky in the stable and when I went in with him he'd start biting himself, then waggle his head low down at my legs, get his willy out and generally spook me! Someone suggested he just wasn't getting enough exercise to go with the extra calories which may have been the case. Anyway, I ended up with half a sack of unused Linseed!

 

[newforest]

The list you have already given sounds a lot for a horse only ridden at weekends. Is there not oil already in the nuts? Or is it shop basics?

To build up the muscles in the backside-polework and small grids. You don't need hills.

 

[Pigletsmum]

Hehehe little weirdo! D you have a manège or field where you could do sme exercises to help with top line? Work over poles perhaps?

 

[Bodshi]

We have a small indoor school but only 3 poles! Also, the physio advised me to keep Raf off soft surfaces and circles due to a possible ligament problem. TBH she said for 4-6 weeks which is up now, but I keep making excuses. Adding a supplement sounds so much easier! :redface:

 

[crinklesb]

I used to feed bob blue chip and I have to say he looked fantastic! It is pricey though and in the end I couldn't afford it.

YO has started feeding global herbs to some of her horses. She has had very good results, a mare who still has a very large foal at foot and had been run ragged by him was getting 3 feeds a day and still not keeping the weight on. With the herbs she's now only getting 1 feed and looks very well. Another of the horses, 22 yr old safe and steady trekker thinks she is 5 again and tanked off on a trek the other day... Oops! Suffice to say her ration has now been cut down

 

[sjp1]

Firstly, no feed on earth will help with muscle and topline - only work will do that.

Linseed is a very good oil, but very high calorie. Raf is an Arab and much like Tobes, too much energy without enough work, is not a very good thing!!!

If you feel you want to feed a mineral/vit supplement, I would look for something without a load of extra calories.

I feed Tobes only grass nuts. No soya, no mollasses, no wheat, no oats, no barley, no alfalfa, no oil - I find the grass nuts keep weight on him, without any of the undesirable side effects that I have had with every other feed.

I also feed him Equifeast Sensible Essentials - this is a supplement with vitamins and minerals which has just that - so not super high in calories or protein. And he is fine. I would steer clear of Topline - because it is very calorific - fine for warmbloods etc, who don't heat up, but wouldn't think so fabby for Raf.

Tobes does love haylage, so as he has been so good lately, for the last two weeks I have given him a net of haylage as well as hay every night. BIG mistake. He has been horrible, and very stressy. Last night I only gave him hay, and this morning when rugging and organising him to go out - he was back to only remotely annoying Tobes, rather than full on pain in the neck Tobes - thats my lesson learnt!!!

 

[newforest]

We have a small indoor school but only 3 poles! Also, the physio advised me to keep Raf off soft surfaces and circles due to a possible ligament problem. TBH she said for 4-6 weeks which is up now, but I keep making excuses. Adding a supplement sounds so much easier! :redface:

3 poles is ok, both ways is 6 poles and repeated is 12. You can find something to make them slightly raised at one end. A plant pot if you don't have jumps that allow that small.

 

[Kite_Rider]

I don't see how any supplement can keep or build muscle really, horses same as us will lose muscle tone if it's not used. Same as they will get fat if they eat more calories than their body uses.

I do see how certain foods can keep weight on but not build muscle, it takes work to do that.

I maybe wrong though.

 

[Joyscarer]

Muscle is only built by doing the work needed to build it. Feed can provide the right building blocks (eg protein) to do so if the work promotes it.

 

[joosie]

I'm looking at this a different way - considering he's going to be getting so little exercise over the winter, does it actually matter if he loses a bit of topline? :unsure: If he's working less he should be having his feed reduced/simplified, not having stuff added to it! - adding more at this time of year, just for the sake of keeping a round bum, is unnecessary for a horse in such light work. Personally I would cut down his feeds and increase his forage instead. Also, does he need speedibeet AND oil? - I would be tempted to stop the oil completely, and leave the sugar beet to do its job.

I don't mean this as a criticism of you personally, but I don't understand why people expect their horses to be in the same physical condition all year round, even when their workload and management are different. If they're using less calories, then they need less calories, so of course they will drop a bit of condition - but as long as they have enough fuel for the work they do, and aren't underweight, does it actually matter if they come out of winter with a scrawny bum? Sometimes I wonder if it is something to do with the aesthetics, and people think that a horse lacking muscle tone looks like it's not being fed / looked after properly...?

My boss's competition horses don't have ANY supplements or special feed, even in the busiest part of the season - their hard feed consists of a bog-standard coarse mix and nothing else, they just eat that and hay. Their muscle is built and maintained by their work, no need for supplements. In the winter, when they have a lighter workload and are mostly just trundling on the treadmill or going out on quiet hacks, they do lose some topline because they're not doing the work to maintain it. They don't drop condition though - and I think people often can't tell the difference between losing weight and losing muscle.

 

[Bodshi]

Thanks guys, you've successfully managed to talk me out of it. It did sound too good to be true. So I'll just have to accept the fact that Raf is going to lose his little bum over winter again. I'll try to do the poles exercises but realistically when I can only ride at weekends I'm more likely to spend all the time I can out hacking. (Can't do evenings as yard shuts at 7 pm in winter).

I think we're obsessed with feeding on our yard because YO shows and showing people seem to like to keep ribs covered. She can't rest if she thinks a horse in her care is losing weight. So Raf does sound to be getting a lot of feed, but YO quickly noticed when he started to lose weight in summer when he was working and in winter I suppose he needs it to make up for the lack of grass and to keep warm. There was a time when he wasn't working (must have been injured I think) and he stopped eating the speedibeet himself, so I'm hoping he's pretty self regulating.