Feeding for the poor doer who can eat anything......

P

Pink's lady

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Kalli is a fairly poor doer. She was really quite under-weight when she came but slowly put weight on. Now she can't wear her rug she's stopped gaining weight. She's not drastically under-weight but I'd like to see her a bit better covered.

At present she's in at night with two large stuffed-so-full-I-can't-lift-them haylage haylage nets and gets a smaller net in the field with the other during the day. Sadly there is a limit to the amount of haylage she can get in the field but there is grass to pick at.

She gets breakfast and dinner (I use Stubbs round scoops for measurements)

breakfast - she has about a hour to eat it before she's put out

1 heaped scoop of Alfa-A
1 full scoop conditioing cubes and barley rings (mixed together in the feed bin at 50/50)
1 full scoop speedibeet
1 full scoop hi-fi (to pad it out)

Dinner - she's in at night and has all night to eat

2 heaped scoops Alfa-A
2 heaped scoops HI-fi lite (to pad her dinner out)
2 full scoops speedibeet
1 full scoops conditioing cubes/barely rings (in her feed ball)
lots of carrots (in her feed ball)

She LOVES her feed ball and it keeps her entertained for hours. The barley rings are a perfect size for it. She's also one of there horses that can eat anything and has no temperament change.

However, price and convience comes into it. There is a limit on feed bin space so everyone shares (hence the conditioning cubes mixed with the barley rings at 50/50) - Pink and Kim get the same although in very reduced amounts. So I could maybe buy her one other seperate bag but that's about it.

It's costing a FORTUNE to feed her and the others and I can't really afford to feed more. We're going thought about £30 (one bag of Alfa-A at £10, one bag of HI-fi lite at £10 and one bag of conditioing cubes at £8, plus speedibeet) of feed a week, which is more than i can really afford.

So I need an 'instead of' feed, not an 'as well as' feed. And the others (better doers) need to be able to eat it as well.


At present the others are getting

Pink (good doer and looking great on it) - she can eat anything with no adverse fizzyness
Breakfast -
1 heaped scoop Hi-Fi lite
1 scoop speedbeet

Dinner -
2 heaped scoops Alfa-A
1 scoop speedibeet

Kim (elderly horse who's a good doer but showing her age). She comes in during the day (to get away from Kalli, who beats her up). She too is looking good on it. She too can have whatever she likes - she's retired and can bounce off the walls if she so wishes;)
Breakfast -
1 heaped scoop hi-Fi
1 scoop Alfa-A
1 scoop speedibeet
1/2 scoop conditioing cubes/barley rings

Dinnner -
1 heaped scoop Alfa-A
1 scoop conditioning cubes/barely rings
1 scoop speedibeet

If anyone would like to suggest a feed plan THAT DOESN'T COST A FORTUNE and will suit all of them, feel free.
 
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Switching Alfa A to Alfa A Oil? Or just sticking a bit of vegetable or corn oil into her feed?
I don't really know much about feeding, and there's probably a very good reason why this wouldn't work.:eek:
 
I'm a great supporter of boiled barley for quick conditioning. I've never had a horse hot up on it, but it keeps condition on really well.
Just take a scoop of flaked or micronised barley and pour over a kettle of boiling water and cover with a cloth until cool.
Ordinary Vegitable oil from the supermarket add a lot of calories too!
 
I second the idea of adding oil- it has mega-calories per gram. If she has haylage then why add hi-fi lite to the feed? - she doesn't need bulky feed - I would use this to slow down a greedy eater or something that should be on a diet.
So save £10 a week by cutting that out - you can buy a lot of vegetable oil for £10 - more than it would be sensible to feed!!!!!
I would try a balancer - lo cal or eqilibra or blue chip. You only need to feed a small amount (I fed about a coffe mug of eqilibra a day). If she has been poor this might be the boost she needs - and you could keep the sack at home and take a week's supply up in an ice cream tub.

Pink would have to miss out on her hi fi lite in the morning - but it sounds like she will survive - you could always give her a few carrots to make up for it.

I am assuming you have checked teeth and done a worm count - feeding worms is an expensive hobby.
 
i'd go for baileys conditioning mix. it keeps my poor doer well. she came to me very underweight taped at around 425g and thats a 16.1 mw tbXid type. she's now taping at 610kg and looking the better for it. she gets 2 scoops cond mix, 1 scoop happychaff to slow her down and a scoop of speedi beet. 2 times a day.

so thats, £8.50 for mix around £5.50 for the chaff,(i use half a bag)£8.50 for speedibeet use 1/4 bag and £1.75 for 3ltrs sunflower oil.

it works out at £15.20 a week.
 
I try to keep the bucket feed down to two scoops so it can be digested fully in the stomach without being pushed through. So with my girl (who can't eat hay much so REALLY drops weight when the grass goes), I've succeeded well with:

2 scoops Alfa-A oil to start with.
After that, she gets her dinner (2 scoops Baileys No.6 (highest energy value mix available and it's non-fizzy!).

That's about 38MJ per feed.
 
You only need to worry about feed size if you feed cereals. Fibre feeds can be as big as you like. I'd certainly look at swapping your conditioning cubes and hifi lite (padding, why???) for alfa oil. You may also be able to do more with less by feeding a balancer as they have the effect of increasing digestive efficiency, though how much money you'll save is open to question. I've seen people piling big feeds with cereals into horses to try and put weight on them and it doesn't seem to be very effective.
 
I would try her on pink powder and see what happens then. I had the same trouble with leg last year, he seemed to hit a point where he wasnt putting anymore weight on. So i put him on pink powder and he blossomed. Then the spring grass came through and he now looks amazing (even if i do say so myself ;) )
 
I would second switching to alfa_a oil. Byron Really dropped weight, switched him to that, and he looks 100% better. Murphy, a good doer,just has happy hoof. They both have speedibeet, and byron has conditioning cubes, in similar amounts to how you feed it. He has piled the weight on. And he doesn;t have as much haylage as your horse (however he is rugged up - but fully clipped)
 
blue chip is working for my girlie - when i brought her she looked like something that had come off a meat lorry and 3 weeks later she is already putting on weight - also as it helps with digestion of what ever feed you give she now has shiny coat and good hooves too!
 
She's getting Hi-Fi because she needs the volume (she's stabled all night and gets bored and manages to eat all her haylage by midnight:rolleyes: ) but it's too expensive to feed lots of Alfa-A - Hi-Fi's about half the price by volume.

I am relucant to by Alfa-Oil since not only is it more expensive but there is less in a bag, although I think they've just changed to a 20kg bag for the same price - it used to be 15kg. I might just have to grit my teeth and try it. I feed it to Brodie two years ago and it was great, but then he was the only horse having it.

I would LOVE to feed blue chip but it is soooooooo expensive:eek: I was considering trying a digestive aid though - maybe pink powder, although it's expensive too:rolleyes:

I'm also going to swap to Hi-Fi orginal from Lite- same price and same volume - and swap Pink onto that instead of the Alfa-A.

I'm off to the feed store now so will have a look. I suspect I'll come away with Alfa-Oil and Hi-Fi orginal.............and a lot less money:eek:
 
I wouldn't bother switching to Alfa A-Oil I would just add oil to her feed. Much more cost effective and means the others can stay on what they're doing well on. You can also alter the amount of oil you add as to how well she's doing then.
 
Yet another vote for adding simple inexpensive vegetable oil . It's cheap and it's extra calories without any fizz. A prebiotic might be useful, I personally think pink powder is very expensive for the amount you get. Do a 'net search and see if you can source similar for less. Buying in bulk is cheaper IF you can store it - is it worth speaking with your YO about any extra storage space.
Another option might be to speak to one of the myriad of equine nutritionist out there - whilst most will be out to sell their particular brand, if you discuss with a few you might get some new ideas, and I'd ask about discount for bulk purchase too.
 
Goodness that is a lot of food, and I am usually the one who feed the most, to Kali's twin brother Oscar!

I would agree with swapping Hi Fi to more Alpha A. Couldnt you give more forage as in hay or haylage - there should really be enough to last all night, not just till midnight. Oscar has a whole round bale of haylage in his stable (1 a week at beginning of winter, building up to almost 2 a week just now), and a large round bale of hay in his feild.

Oil works great - just buy it and add it rather than switching to alpha - oil. Oscar looks sooo much better when he has oil, and his coat is stunning. If I run out for even a could of weeks you can see the difference, then within a week of adding it he is gleaming again.

Pink powder really seems to work as well - I was sceptical, but it was recommended by my feed merchant, and has had results. Havent a clue why, and if anyone cares to enlighten me I would be very grateful (hence separate post about a week ago).

I also swapped from speedy beet to molassed sugar beet a while back, however this might not be suitable for all of your horses. It is cheaper though as well as having a higher energy content, as is non branded.

Oscar is on about 1 scoop comp. mix and 1 heaped scoop alpha a in the morning, and 1 scoop and a teeny bit (well soaked so actually over half a bucket) molassed sugar beet, 1 scoop mix and one heaped scoop alpha a at night, with his oil (a big swig - 1 big bottle a week), pink powder and garlic. He is very similar in build to Kali, as you have commented before. He has actually put weight on this winter since I added oil and pink powder!

Oh, just a last little point, I found people were commenting that Oscar looked rather lean, when actually he was in correct condition for his type - it's just that they were mis-reading his type as being like an overgrown cob, or a deeper, rounder draft cross (ID hunter type), whereas he is actually a lanky, bony, angular giant. Looking at show condition full bred Clydesdales, and seeing exactly the same hollows, lumps and bumps, that I, being used to cobs, wasnt used to myself, reasured me enough not to listen to anyones misplaced concerns (as well as listening to my vet's opinion).
 
here is a balanced, nutritional and energy-dense diet plan for you (with help from aDengie nutritionist):

AM

2 1/2 scoops (1kg) = Dengie Alfa-A Oil
1 level scoop (dry weight) = AlfaBeet
2 scoops (50g approx.) = NAF Pink Powder
fruit/veg

PM

electolytes (50g approx.) = if in moderate-hard work (such as FeelGood 30 Everyday Electrolytes)
2 1/2 scoops = Alfa-A Oil
1 level scoop (dry weight) = AlfaBeet
fruit/veg

alongside ad-lib hay (preferably, due to its high fibre and dry matter content)

The Naf Pink Powder is a feed balancer containing dgestive enhancers, to make sure that your horse digests his food and absorbs nutrients as efficiently as possible. This provides all the vitamins and minerals he needs. The amount of the conditioning feed Alfa-A Oil (the equivelant of a conditioning cube or mix, energy-wise)can be changed as necessary, thanks to the balancer, as the vitamin and mineral levels won't be compromised as your horse gains and then maintains his weight. it is extremely low in sugar and starch (so is far kess likely than a usual cube - especially a mix - to cause fizziness and digestive problems). it will help your horse to gain andmaintain condition and it is also energy-dense, yet the energy is released slowly so shouldn't exaggerate your horse's natural temprement. It contains oil (which provides 2 1/4 times the enegy of a mix/cube) with the same properties. The alfalfa is also high in valuable nutrients, including calcium and protein for enhanced muscle development. The Alfa-A Oil also provides 2-3 times the amount of fibre found in most 'high-fibre' mixes and cubes, and this nutrient is essential for healthy gut function (including the movement of food, form of his droppings and the levels of good bacteria). Using this means you are likely to save money, time and effort having to buy a separate oil product. also is used as an internal 'central heating' for your horse, as without it he would be sure to feel the cold more! and a cold horse cannot gain weight. to gain weight he needs to take in more calories than he is using up, and to keep him as healthy as possible an ideal fitness programme should also be carried out, so help decent muscle develop rather than just body fat, ideally.
The Alfa-beet has also been created by Dengie. It combines the brilliance of low-sugar sugarbeet and quality alfalfa to produce a fantastic conditioning feed additive, which's levels can also be varied as your horse's condition improves.

i personally love blue chip - where other feeds take longer, yet appear chaper to buy, really good quality feeds do the job much quicker, actually saving you money in the process. cheaper products may deny your horse the quality he needs, so will waste your money, compromise his healthy, and will most likelt take longer to work if at all.
therefore i have recommended the best products i know of and have used myself to great sucess.

NB- the NAF Pink Powder can be swapped for other excellent vitamin and mineral supplements; such as Global Herbs Globalvite, Dengie Classic/Optinum; or the brilliant balancers Blue Chip Original/Lami-Light or Baileys Lo-Cal.

the Alfa-Beet is entirely optional and you can do the job just as well, if not quite so quickly, without it.

Good luck!
 
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Just to add regarding adding oil seperately that if you feed it in any quantity then you should also add an antioxidant (vit E) to the diet. Alfa A oil includes this.
 
Lots of people feed calf rearing pellets for condition. They are six quid a sack, which to my mind is better than 30 quid plus! They have the same ingredients as certain very expensive feed balancers, and suply only slightly less of (the same) vitamins and minerals. You just up the quantity slightly to make up for it. They contain no steroids or GM, or anything dodgy.

All mine are on calf rearer, I did ask a equine neutritionalist about it. :cool: Turns out that that is what she feeds to her horses. I was expecting to be told off! The makes of rearer pellets will vary over the country so do have a look at the breakdown of vits/mins/ingredients and compare to the well known balancers first!
 
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