First day being a horse mummy and I feel awful!

[*GroovyGallop*]

Guys,

She is nervous and scared even with old owners who had her 3 yrs. she taught the child how to ride.

What if the elecric fence shock has messed her up? Is that possible?

Im getting vet out this week to check her back etc.

I just dont know what to do. The old owner has advised me to retire her and sell as non ridden companion, but i want a vet to asses her first.

 

[Bodshi]

They've only had her a couple of days. Surely they realise it might take her a little while to settle, especially as she seemed very upset by her last move? I think the electric shock is unlikely to have done that much damage but I also think you're doing the right thing in getting the vet out.

She couldn't be in foal could she? Only asking because we've a mare on the yard that's in foal and she's changed from being a sweet shy little thing to a right mardy arse.

 

[*GroovyGallop*]

They've only had her a couple of days. Surely they realise it might take her a little while to settle, especially as she seemed very upset by her last move? I think the electric shock is unlikely to have done that much damage but I also think you're doing the right thing in getting the vet out.

She couldn't be in foal could she? Only asking because we've a mare on the yard that's in foal and she's changed from being a sweet shy little thing to a right mardy arse.

I doubt she is in foal but ive only had her 10 days so who bloody knows, nothing would be a shock right now. I will get the vet to check when they come out.

They took her all over the country for shows etc so they know the pony usually settles instantly. Its not like her to be nervous and unsettled apparently.
Shes very chilled and laid back.

Im at my wits end ive had the biggest cry tonight. So upset and stressed and still in so much pain its so frustrating not being able to do anything or even drive. Regardless of what happens i’ll never ever buy another horse again after this. Its completely put me off.

It seems like something is seriously wrong health wise - which will likely cost me thousands or the pony is now terrified and wont trust people again in a hurry anytime soon.

What do I do? Cut my losses and Retire her, companion home, project pony to experienced home?

 

[Kite_Rider]

Firstly im sorry you fell and broke your back, that must be scary and worrying.
I doubt very much that a jolt from the electric fence has turned her into a different horse. If she's always been saintly and gentle girl it sounds like she's got some kind of health issue going on, good for you getting the vet to check her over, the other thing I'm wondering is maybe she just doesn't like the new yard, routine, whatever? Some horses prefer different set ups.
The other thing to bear in mind is she's just moved to a new yard with new horses, new owner, new everything add in to that she will be picking up on your own mental state too, is she getting a good routine? Who's bringing her in and putting her out? Same person every day? Same sort of times? She sounds as stressed by all that's happened as you are to be honest, I wish I knew the answers for you but starting with a physical check up from the vet is a good start.
You also said that up until she bucked you off she was beginning to settle so that in itself is good, I don't mean to sound harsh but it isn't her fault you broke your back, yes she bucked you off, but, you could have just as easily just got up and got back on, the broken bones were an unfortunate consequence and I'm not trying to play that down as I can understand how that must make you feel, but try to imagine how you would be reacting now if you had been able to shrug off the fall? I'm going to guess you wouldn't be half as upset, angry, or scared? I guess what I'm trying to get across is horses, some more than others are brilliant at feeling us out. Sorry I'm not great at putting into words what I'm trying to say, hugs and healing vibes to you and your pony x

 

[chunky monkey]

Only you can decided what to do. Right now you have made a decision for her to go to the old owners and that's what you should stick with whilst you get yourself over the injury. It will I guess depend on whether the old owners are going to do anything with her whilst at theres or if she is by going to just be grazing. If they are going to do things with her I think you have to reassess once you are better and how she is going.
I dont think any of us can tell you whether she should be retired, or a project etc because we havent seen her.

 

[Jessey]

What if the elecric fence shock has messed her up? Is that possible?

Millions of horses are kept with electric fence and all of them touch it to 'learn' what it's about, they get over it, the chances it has caused some lasting issue are slim to none.

The old owner has advised me to retire her and sell as non ridden companion, but i want a vet to asses her first.

Which old owner is suggesting this? the one you purchased from or the one trying to help you out? why are they saying this? have they worked with her since?

I don't think you can make any decisions until you have had the vet assessment, did they do a vetting before your bought her so they can compare her now? Unfortunately this is the nature of buying horses, no matter what anyone says you never really know what is going to come off the box at the other end, things can change so quickly for them (horses). But given she has been out competing a lot in her life it does seem a little odd that she was so unsettled, which might make you lean towards there being something else going on so a vet check is the right next step IMO.

How much did her life change when you brought her home, it's not uncommon to hear of saintly riding school horses sold to private owners only to become right handfuls and the life change def plays into that, they get more good grazing, the best quality hay/feed and plenty of it and far less work than they are used to, all contributing to too much energy and not enough discipline/routine. Perhaps looking back on that side of things might highlight something different that can be adjusted to help her too.

My own mare I've had 15 years since she was 1yo, I know her inside out, one winter I put her on haylage and she was nuts, culminating in nearly putting me on the front of a car. I'd fed her haylage before without issue, but given she settled back to normal immediately once off it tells me that batch must have been like rocket fuel. Sometimes it really can be something simple.

 

[carthorse]

The electric shock from a fence is not going to have messed her up this much. Many horses get jolts from it, it really isn't that strong.

In the space of a couple of weeks she's moved to you and then moved back to an old home. That's two moves, and just because one of them is back to a previous owner doesn't mean she hasn't found it unsettling.

Given their reaction I wouldn't be at all surprised to find there wasn't a problem in her last home so there may be a bit of baggage to deal with.

A vet check is never a bad idea, in particular get them to check her eyesight.

I'd try a good calmer, my personal choice is ProKalm but there are lots out there.

Many years ago my then 2yo ID who had never been in contact with electric fencing decided it would be a good idea to bite it to pull it out of the ground. A bad idea at any time, this was made worse by the fact it was much more powerful than normal electric as she used it to keep stallions in. He literally had burns on his mouth! He was never good with electric after that, but we found a way around it by having a routine for dealing with electric that made him feel safer - basically he was taught to stay like a dog while I did the fencing, then walk through on command and stay the other side while I put it back. It didn't have any impact on the rest of his life, and believe me when I say this was one sharp horse. She will get over it.

 

[newforest]

If this is pain related and the vet finds something it can be dealt with.
I wouldn't retire or sell as a companion pony, sorry but the pony is not as described if this is the thinking of someone, something really doesn't sound right to me with all this I'll be honest.
An unsettled pony because of a change of home yes, you getting to know each other and building confidence and into a routine yes.
Retiring as unsafe all of a sudden and using the electric fence as a reason, no.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I think that you are doing the best thing by getting the vet out to have a look at her. That way you will know if she is in pain.

I do think the old owners are a little hasty in saying that she needs to be retired as a non ridden companion. She obviously is behaving differently from the pony that they knew, but surely they would want to investigate why first?

I don't think that the electric fence incident would have caused all this, but the herd dynamics might have some influence. Is it possible that she left behind a close companion at her old yard, and that she is suffering from separation anxiety?

 

[*GroovyGallop*]

Update everyone...

Ive called her old vet to check if she was prescribed bute in last 6 months. They told me they wont tell me without owners permission.

They called her and shes refused to let me have access to any vet records. Clearly something is being hidden from me in regards to the ponies health. I found out today she also only had her for 6 months before selling her on.

Shes ignoring messages, emails, calls from me and one of the old owners to ask why we cannot have access to her vet records.

Im getting a solicitor involved. I really need those vet records to find out what has happened to my pony. Its so fustrating, does anyone know a loop hole how i could possibly get them?

Insurance, my new vet cannot help. Have already asked.

For anyone that has asked she isnt on haylage just hay and top chop zero x1 day as shes a good doer . So shes having no fuel as such.
Her routine hasnt changed dramatically at all. Turn out/in times similar out in the day in at night. Still only 1 feed a day.

I really do feel due to not allowing me to see her records something is wrong.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

I have no advice, I fear, but I am so sorry that you have been treated in this way by the seller and that it has led to your injury. I hope that someone else on the forum will be able to help you. My sense of justice says there must be some recourse for you, but I'm really not sure.

 

[newforest]

You would need someone specialising in equine law.
If you have insured them for vet fees, you will have said they have no health or behavioural issues. As it's clear they do you may not be insured. And I don't think are for the first 14 days.

On the passport it would say change of ownership, did you ask how long they had the pony for?

I definately smell a rat. Before I took mine on the previous people encouraged told me to chat to their vet and that vet gave me all the information and was happy to do so.

 

[chunky monkey]

If the old owner wont give permission then I'm not sure what you can do. I was told this by my vet. Even though the horse was already with a vet I used they couldnt tell me the history due to client confidentiality.
I think you might be best to start the horse from scratch and retrain it if the vet gives it the all clear and cant find anything wrong.

 

[carthorse]

I'm pretty sure they are under no legal obligation to let you see the vet records from when they owned her, a solicitor won't be able to make them hand them over. Didn't you have her vetted? Vets usually take bloods and store at a vetting so that in cases like this they can be tested to see if a pony was on bute or similar, or indeed doped. If you could have those bloods tested and they came back positive you'd then have a legal case against them.

If you've been getting in touch with them a lot it could be the old owner is fed up of saying no and so just isn't answering calls etc. It could be that in their opinion they sold the pony and it's now no longer their problem, if indeed it was a problem for them. Realistically you tried her several times and had no problems at any of those visits, they may feel it's something you've done or you haven't given her time to settle in. Her older owner says she's not the pony they knew, maybe her previous owner would be saying the same thing and they don't see why they should have to sort the problem and maybe struggle to sell her on again if people could identify her from forum or facebook posts. Or it could be that they did knowingly mislead you and just wanted rid of her, the thing is we don't know and there are often two sides to a situation.

 

[newforest]

I'm pretty sure they are under no legal obligation to let you see the vet records from when they owned her, a solicitor won't be able to make them hand them over. Didn't you have her vetted? Vets usually take bloods and store at a vetting so that in cases like this they can be tested to see if a pony was on bute or similar, or indeed doped. If you could have those bloods tested and they came back positive you'd then have a legal case against them.

If you've been getting in touch with them a lot it could be the old owner is fed up of saying no and so just isn't answering calls etc. It could be that in their opinion they sold the pony and it's now no longer their problem, if indeed it was a problem for them. Realistically you tried her several times and had no problems at any of those visits, they may feel it's something you've done or you haven't given her time to settle in. Her older owner says she's not the pony they knew, maybe her previous owner would be saying the same thing and they don't see why they should have to sort the problem and maybe struggle to sell her on again if people could identify her from forum or facebook posts. Or it could be that they did knowingly mislead you and just wanted rid of her, the thing is we don't know and there are often two sides to a situation.

Am I right in thinking that it's at the vetting that the records can be discussed, or prior to purchase?
I actually wish records went with the pony as standard anyway to the new vet.
But if the op had requested records before purchase and the seller declined, I would have walked away or got bloods which would show up bute.

People must know this pony locally/ on the circuit etc etc.

 

[carthorse]

@newforest I don't think the buyer is entitled to see the records at any point, though I think a few years ago the law did change slightly so that if you used the seller's vet to do the vetting they couldn't pass a horse when they knew there was something on it's records which would fail it. That's only the case if you use the seller's vet though, it doesn't entitle another vet to have access to the records.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about records going with a horse, it might make insuring many horses for vets fees extremely difficult.

 

[Huggy]

I don't have advice, only loads of sympathy. There does seem to have been something very fishy gone on there. I do hope you can get it resolved and move on. It's a rotten thing to happen.

 

[*GroovyGallop*]

I'm pretty sure they are under no legal obligation to let you see the vet records from when they owned her, a solicitor won't be able to make them hand them over..

If it goes to court and its a legal offence of course they will get access to vet records. Everything is accessible in the right circumstances in a court of law.

 

[carthorse]

If it goes to court and its a legal offence of course they will get access to vet records. Everything is accessible in the right circumstances in a court of law.

What legal offence do you think has been committed here?

 

[Jessey]

A friend brought a horse which down the line decked him several times then went lame, he knew there was investigation for lameness with a prior owner done at our vets, the vet couldn't share the record without written permission from the prior owner, the prior owner wouldn't give the permission to the vets even though she had told my friend verbally she would. They tried all sorts to no avail, no loop holes found. It's effectively doctor patient confidentiality/medical records so the laws around it are very tight, a court could unseal them but you would have to have evidence up front to justify them doing so which would be tough to prove without bloods pulled prior to purchase showing something.