Galaadriel, Jessey - underneath my saddle

cvb

cvb

Active Member
Oct 23, 2001
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Galadriel, Jessey - underneath my saddle

Hi guys

Need some advice :)

When we were looking at saddle fit at the Mark Rashid clinic, you could feel a "high point" under the saddle.

Well I confess I have only just got round to upending my saddle and get more closely acquainted with the underneath.

See here for a shot of the whole underneath
http://groups.msn.com/NRphotos/cvbfifi.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5568

It seems that the "high spot" is where the strings etc are attached - the dark points are where the leather comes through and then returns - one per string.

See detail here http://groups.msn.com/NRphotos/cvbfifi.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5569

Will this improve if the "sheepskin" is renewed ? Right now I am concerned that whatever horse wears this saddle will be like the princess with the pea - and will feel these points every time they round up under the saddle ?

any comments ?

(for context, this is what the saddle looks "right side up" ;) http://groups.msn.com/NRphotos/cvbfifi.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5543 )
 
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Will this improve if the "sheepskin" is renewed ?
Click to expand...

Consider lumpy flocking, in a saddle which is then placed over a nice fleecey pad. The nice fleecey pad doesn't make the lumpy flocking easier to deal with; all it does is conceal the lumps from the *rider* The horse feels it; the rider doesn't see it.

Most "sheepskin" I have seen is attached with nails or screws, and there are few actual attachments that come all the way through the tree to the other side of the sheepskin.

However, I have found a number of cotter pins that hold the skirting in place, that go through the bars and then open--then the fleece is put in place over them! This creates just as much of a lump, but the rider simply can't see it at all.

A Western saddle has so much of the integral structure concealed by skirting or fleece...if the saddle wasn't well-made, then they took SO many shortcuts! But the rider unfortunately won't be able to see the shortcuts without taking the saddle apart.
 
Hmm - think I may have to track down the maker and ask them as well. I've found a place that stocks Dakota in USA, but can't find a site for them themselves so they may not be on the web yet :(

The shop in Sweden is still stocking them - maybe I could ask them as well ....
 
oh poo - the email for the site I found doesn't work, and the swedish site doesn't have email contact :(

anyone able to find Dakota for me ?
 
these guys - http://www.tacksouth.com/ say:
Dakota Saddlery Located in Alabama has been in business for more than 13 years, Dakota offers western saddles and horse tack of high quality at fair prices. Handcrafted from the finest materials. Most of Dakota's western saddles can be semi-customized to fit your personal needs.

J
 
Karin

Did you look at the pictures I posted ? I know my way round an english saddle like the back of my hand - but I just haven't seen enough western saddles yet :(

So still in learning mode...

Jessey - yes I think thats them - I guess I'm just being greedy hoping for an email or website or something....
 
I looked but I have no clue! :D The only reason I even was specific about trees is that I was looking for a semi-custom fit and Steele seems more concerned with fit and maximum weight bearing than most other 'affordable' tree makers.
You can contact Steele through here: Info@SteeleEquiFit.com
They have Dakota's contact info listed as:
Dakota Saddlery
Rt. 1, Box 441
Ider, AL 35981
205-632-3303
I remember last time I tried to contact Dakota that area code had changed. You may get more up-to-date contact info to Dakota by emailing Steele directly. I didn't see an email address for Dakot. Sorry!
 
(Want to comment again that Fi is lovely)

You know...it depends what's holding the fleece on, but it's entirely possible that you could just cut the thongs and pull them off. No more pressure point.

You can replace the thongs with a concho with a screw or cotter pin (with thong attached); the screw would be little and go into but not through the tree, the cotter pin would go through the skirting but not the tree.

If the string is important to holding the fleece on, though, that might be a little different--although if you're having the fleece replaced, they may be able to alter it so it doesn't need the thong.
 
OK been trying to think about this, with the western saddles it seems that this happens when they are used on a horse that is too wide (ie saddle to narrow), not saying that Fi is too wide but know you got this saddle second hand. The leather tends to get folded back around the tree further than you would want and you begin to get solid lumps, normally where the screw/lace comes through as this is the bottom 'point' of the tree (as this is in-flexible and the leather is flexible this seems to start 'sticking out') The acctual lace is normaly fairly flush with the last piece of leather before the fleece (screws seem to have more of a habbit of sticking out but can be counter sunk to help with this) Cheap trees are normally worse for this (as far as I can make out) as they often have less depth to the bar (from the bottom of the swells to the bottom of the tree edge) which causes more pressure at one point, so this whole process is more likely to happen/happens quicker.
Removing the lace should lessen the problem of the 'pea' but there will probably still be the tree lump, but this should lessen/dissapear when the saddle is used on a suitablely narrow horse and the leather starts to move back into position (in line with the tree).
A good and well fitted sheepskin can really benifit a saddle but one that has gone flat and compressed can cause troubles as it can 'bobble' and cause its own 'peas', brushing can help loosen the pile up again (but its a nightmare to do). Putting a new fleece on could help minimise any 'pea' issue (I would try and talk to the chap in wales as he does offer this service and may be able to tell you the exact purpose/reasons for doing it).
I don't really think any of this would be worth doing if you are not intending to use the saddle again? it may be perfect for another horse with very little modification and you could have wasted a fortune on a new fleece.

J
 
Just had another look at the pictures, on the top (in the 1st picture and the close up) lace area the fleece seems to be particually flattened and in quite a uniformed way (around the lace and in straight, parallel lines to the edge of the tree - is this a seperate fleece, I understand that the fleece should always be one piece or it can cause ridges? (could be wrong, please correct me if I am) If it is two piece could this indicate that some work has already been carried out on this area of the saddle? some kind of repair deeper inside?
Cvb, I could be way off with this but could be worth considering, I understand that this is a common place to get breaks/ cracks in the tree as it is weakened by the hole where the lace/screw goes through and being the front of the saddle can be exposed to people knocking them through doorways etc.

J
 
Ok - so I have a choice of "too narrow saddle on a wide horse", or "broken tree".... do hope its the former not the latter :eek:

I suspect it IS the narrow saddle on a wide horse thing, as thats the whole reason I need a new saddle :rolleyes:

I don't really think any of this would be worth doing if you are not intending to use the saddle again? it may be perfect for another horse with very little modification and you could have wasted a fortune on a new fleece.
Click to expand...

Yeah - this is me worrying about selling it onwards if I know its "dodgy". I want to know I can sell it on with a clean conscience. :eek:

Jessey - can you pm me the guy in Wales ? I thought it was Ray but he's not in Wales. Is it Celtic ? (they're wales)....
 
also struck by the irony - that when I asked for advice from the other western riders in the yard when I got this, I was advised to use a built-up pad to help the fit.

Now either that means the muscle (fat ?) on Fi's back has built up considerably, or I was doing exactly the opposite of what I should have done :eek: :rolleyes: (if I had known better).

Unfortunately the saddler I got it from didn't come out to fit saddles :( so I applied sensible principles (spread the weight etc etc). I hate the idea that Fi may have been putting up with this all this time :mad:
 
also struck by the irony - that when I asked for advice from the other western riders in the yard when I got this, I was advised to use a built-up pad to help the fit.
Click to expand...

I have never understood that, if you get pressure points ie tight bits you are meant to put more padding under it to........err.........make it tighter :confused:

J
 
I think this may have been the classic misunderstanding. A too narrow saddle does not "sit" right - it often "perches" so I've seen people misinterpret english saddles doing this as "too wide" (as the lower part is away from the horse because it is sitting too high or in the wrong place).

Wondering if thats what happened in this case :(
 
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