Getting and maintaining an outline

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horseygal90

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Aug 27, 2004
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Guess it's time for me to 'fess up; I haven't got a clue how to get a horse into an outline. Old riding school (and the ones before that) weren't fussed with outlines, if it happened it happened. New one however is quite fussed with it (I'm a reserve on the uni team so I need to know how to do it) and everybody else seems to know... Been riding there 3 months now so it's a bit late to stick my hand up and go 'Actually, you know those last 3 months? Haven't had a clue what I was meant to be doing' :p

I know the theory behind it (horse moving forwards and responsive, tracking up, should come naturally) but I can't get there! If I do get a horse that gives me an outline, I soon loose it. It often feels that when they drop their heads my reins are too long, so I try and shorten them, and the horse raises his head again (mind you, I would too!). If I try to change the speed - out of the outline. Turning? Bye bye outline again.

My main tactic is to try and get them going well and forward and to play with the reins... But I don't know if this is right or if I'm annoying/hurting the horse by doing this. :(

*Feels like a beginner again*
 
Try light squeezes on the inside rein whilst keeping a constant contact on the outside rein.
And obviously squeezing the horse forwards so he's tracking up correctly.
Don't saw on the mouth, more a play down the rein.. and as soon as the head drops, leave the head be, but keep a contact.
I often feel that i have to shorten my reins more than you'd think.
 
Make sure the horse is moving forward with impulsion, but not rushing. if they're rushing then slow your rising (in trot obviously:eek:)

Take up quite a strong contact and 'sponge' on the inside rein to get inside bend. Loosen the inside rein and support with the outside. Hopefully the horse will drop into the contact and you can take back the rein slightly.
 
Once I've got it, I just hold the reins? :eek:

I just want to grab a pony and ride now to try it out... Won't be riding until Wednesday at least (if at all).
 
Method_Acting said:
Make sure the horse is moving forward with impulsion, but not rushing. if they're rushing then slow your rising (in trot obviously:eek:)

Take up quite a strong contact and 'sponge' on the inside rein to get inside bend. Loosen the inside rein and support with the outside. Hopefully the horse will drop into the contact and you can take back the rein slightly.
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Exactly, or slow how he moves your bottom in walk, it has the same effect. You control your body movements rather than letting him jiggle you around.

Actually you may find just holding the reins with an even contact is enough (that's all I do and all my Instructor asks and my mare relaxes into contact) Once you can control his pace with your seat, my instructor calls this having the engine on, then you can start looking at straightness and bend. Many people tend to ask for too much bend, aim for straigthness in the length of his body and then gradually on the correct bend.
 
This is exactly what I'm working on with the new hossy.

igloo said:
Try light squeezes on the inside rein whilst keeping a constant contact on the outside rein.
And obviously squeezing the horse forwards so he's tracking up correctly.
Don't saw on the mouth, more a play down the rein.. and as soon as the head drops, leave the head be, but keep a contact.
I often feel that i have to shorten my reins more than you'd think.
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^
That's what my instructor is telling me. Play around with the reins untill the start to accept the bit.

Also make sure he's working from the back end. The horse I'm on pulls himself forward with his front legs which makes is back awkwerd. So I have to put my leg on alot and get him listening to come up under himself.
 
pretty much what everyone else has said - although with murphy i also need to almost vibrate the reins to get him to soften and relax into an outline - but he's a bit odd - the only horse i've ever known do it only when ridden like that!!!!
 
Everyones mentions the reins, but remember to keep your legs on, inside leg at the girth and outside leg just behind the girth as well as keeping the contact and ride forwards into it.
 
Popz said:
Everyones mentions the reins, but remember to keep your legs on, inside leg at the girth and outside leg just behind the girth as well as keeping the contact and ride forwards into it.
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Can I be really annoying and ask why?
 
Yes totally agree you will not get correct outline unless you put some 'gas in the tank' it's not good just hauling in the horses head, he is more likely to stay down, soft and round if you have him working forward and under driving himself forward from behind rather than dragging his back end along with his front end!

Also you have to make it very black and white for the horse, when he gives stop the sponging and pat once the neck (inside hand only) as a 'well done you got it) when he comes up again, sponge the inside rein again and leg on, again when he has done what you want reward him with another pat. They soon learn it's nicer to go in the outline (less fuss) and will go sweetly for you!
 
Hopefully in my lesson next week I'll be able to put this all into practice, thanks guys. Trouble is I'm often left with the uhh, less willing horses to ride because all the other guys who I ride with are on teams and so have all the good horses that do it straight off! Can't wait to get back to my old stables *sigh*

So to sum up:
- Lots of oomph/impulsion/gas in the tank and the horse going forwards and working properly (tracking up)
- Sponging with the inside rein, steady with the outside
- Praise when I get it
- Shorter reins (maybe)

?
 
vimto92 said:
Can I be really annoying and ask why?
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may be wrong but i always viewed it as, you can fiddle with a horses head as much as you want but that won't be an outline, it will be a false outline. an outline is more about the whole body than just the neck.
keeping the leg on keeps them working properly from behind and picking themselves up properly and working beneath you rather than dragging themselves alone.

echo all that the others have said tbh. There should be millions of threads if you have a bit of a search.

keep sponging on the reins, definately not sawing though (although i know you never would;)) lots of circles will help them accept the bit and listen to you abit more. i always find lateral work/extention/collection helps with a good outline
In the RSs i have been to we have been encouraged to warm up on a longish rein to let the horse stretch through its neck and back so it can warm up properly and thus use their neck properly :)
 
~*sugarlump*~ said:
may be wrong but i always viewed it as, you can fiddle with a horses head as much as you want but that won't be an outline, it will be a false outline. an outline is more about the whole body than just the neck.
keeping the leg on keeps them working properly from behind and picking themselves up properly and working beneath you rather than dragging themselves alone.
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I know all about false outlines, it does my head in. Maybe I should have been more specific, when in an outline why do you then give aids for bend Popz?
 
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vimto92 said:
I know all about false outlines, it does my head in. Maybe I should have been more specific, when in an outline why do you then give aids for bend Popz?
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I don't know what Popz would answer to this, but as a dressage bod my answer is easy, a trained horse is never asked to ride in an exact straight line except down the center line. So even if you are going down the long side of the school your horse should have slight bend to the inside, remeber when your RI says you should be able to see the corner of his inside eye, the reason is so that you horse has poll flexion, hope that answers it! ;)
 
snopuma said:
I don't know what Popz would answer to this, but as a dressage bod my answer is easy, a trained horse is never asked to ride in an exact straight line except down the center line. So even if you are going down the long side of the school your horse should have slight bend to the inside, remeber when your RI says you should be able to see the corner of his inside eye, the reason is so that you horse has poll flexion, hope that answers it! ;)
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My RI has only ever said that when working on circles. I'm pretty p*ssed off actually that I actually haven't even been fully taught the basics. Don't get me wrong, my former RI has taught me many things but how on earth do you miss/forget to teach someone something so vital!:mad:

So what do you do on diagonals, same as center line I presume?:confused:

Thanks a lot snopuma :) Why do you want the bend and inside poll flexion though?
 
vimto92 said:
My RI has only ever said that when working on circles. I'm pretty p*ssed off actually that I actually haven't even been fully taught the basics. Don't get me wrong, my former RI has taught me many things but how on earth do you miss/forget to teach someone something so vital!:mad:

So what do you do on diagonals, same as center line I presume?:confused:

Thanks a lot snopuma :) Why do you want the bend and inside poll flexion though?
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Okay so I know this will sound daft but to maintain straightness in a horse you need a flexion in the poll, a horse is arrow shaped so when you ride the track in order to ride straight down the track you need to move his outside shoulder slightly shoulder fore so he is not hugging the rail, you can test if you horse does that by taking the inside track if your horse wobbles about then you have been using the rail to keep him going along, not actually riding straight.

and as for the changing the diagonal, you should maintain the flexion to the rein you were just on and change the flexion to the other rein as you go across the centre line in preparation for the new rein.

hope this helps! x
 
outline is more than just tracking up and looking pretty. The drive should be from behind so your first thoughs should be engaging the hind quarters. My dressage trainer always describes it as balancing a quarter full lemonade bottle on it's side on your hand, you want the lemonade (i.e. weight) to be in the bottom end of the bottle (the horses hind quarters), you don't want the horse to be running along on the forehand. To shift the weight to behind, half halts and transitions are the way to go, and lots of them. at this stage you shouldn't be faffing with the front end at all. ignore what the head is doing. chucking in some lateral work can also help. I think you'll find once the hind quarters are doing the right thing the front end comes naturally, at least it did with my cob.
 
eventerbabe said:
outline is more than just tracking up and looking pretty. The drive should be from behind so your first thoughs should be engaging the hind quarters. My dressage trainer always describes it as balancing a quarter full lemonade bottle on it's side on your hand, you want the lemonade (i.e. weight) to be in the bottom end of the bottle (the horses hind quarters), you don't want the horse to be running along on the forehand. To shift the weight to behind, half halts and transitions are the way to go, and lots of them. at this stage you shouldn't be faffing with the front end at all. ignore what the head is doing. chucking in some lateral work can also help. I think you'll find once the hind quarters are doing the right thing the front end comes naturally, at least it did with my cob.
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How do you get a horse to do correct lateral work without collection?
 
it was always my understanding that lateral work and collection went side by side, and as my horses ability to carry himself improved, we introduced lateral work. that is what i should have possibly elaborated on in my first post. But it's far more inportant that the OP works on the half halts and transitions before worrying about anything else.
 
Gordon Bennett. Reading through this post certainly shows how many different "tactics" are used in order to get "outline"!

My own personal take on it is different to most, but quite similar to eventerbabe. For anyone interested in a kinder, more classical way, I'd highly recommend asking Santa for Tug of War: Classical v Modern Dressage by Dr Gerd Heuschmann, and Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage by Philippe Karl.

I have a four year old who is just backed and in the process of being ridden away. I never, ever ask for "outline" by squeezing the reins, and my pupils are forbidden from doing so too :) My view is that if you spend time working on relaxation, balance, and suppleness, the outline will come on it's own when the horse is ready. It's fine to resist a little with the hand if the horse tries to hollow and throw it's head around, but otherwise the hand never acts with a backward motion, it just gently asks for flexion and bend and thus over time gains softness. My instructor is ex-Cadre Noir, so a lot different to most BHS instructors, but the methods we use work on every horse and develop softness and obedience from the horses with no force.

"Sponging" down the reins most often simply puts pressure on the horse's tongue and just results in the horse learning to shorten it's neck and tuck it's nose behind the bit.

Also, I do not consider that lateral work is only for advanced horses. How are you to truly straighten and supple a horse if he cannot move his forehand and quarters equally to both sides? My own young horse does leg yield, shoulder in and quarters in in hand, and will soon be translating that work under saddle. You very often find that shifting the quarters results in the horse relaxing over the topline and dropping the head. Put your horse on a 15m circle in a slow walk and periodically ask for a shift of the quarters to the outside for a few steps. I bet he will go in a lovely "outline" all of his own accord, when you softly engage the inside hind and help him to connect through thoughtful use of exercises, rather than coercive use of the hand!
 
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