Getting horse 'on the bit'

sophie33

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Aug 8, 2004
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I am feeling a bit stupid and frustrated. My RI (who also owns Flicka my share horse) is trying to teach Flicka and me how to get her to lower her head and accept the contact. Up until now I have just been riding her with a very loose contact and letting her poke her nose out if she wants to. She did have a tendency to move her head around a lot - but that has gradually got better.
I don't attempt to get her on the bit when I'm riding on my own, because I just don't know what I'm doing and will end up messing it up. Except in halt that is when she lowers her head very nicely when I ask her to by tweaking the inside rein!! But when we are moving I am trying to just concentrate on getting her nice and forward as I understand that that is the prerequisite for the rest of it anyway.
But under my RI's beady eye I am trying and failing to get than of this! So I think I realise the concept of what I'm trying to do - first get her going forward and then 'collect the energy', keep my outside hand up to support her and tweak the inside rein to encourage her to lower her head and accept the bit, when she does that - 'give' with the reins so she knows she has done well. But I find it incredibly hard to do it! When she does lower her head I tend to soften too much and lower my outside hand and then she shoves her head up again. I am also sometimes too slow to react so she doesn't always get the instant reward she should. I am just finding it really difficult!! So - any tips?
My RI says part of the problem is we are learning together. I'm away for a week now but when I get back she is going to shove me on her other horse - who is a 20 year old school mistress - so I can get the feel of how it should be. But I really want to learn how to do this without doing poor Flicks any damage. She is such a willing soul I don't want to break her. Help!
 
I hate the expression "on the bit"!

What you are trying to do is get the horse to really step under its body with its hind feet so that less weight is carried on the front legs and the back is working properly, when you get this happening the horse will lower its head so the nose is just in front of the vertical and you will have a light contact on the bit. People call this "working in a frame".

Unfortunately you can also force the horse into a false position where the head is down but the horse is not working from behind. Sawing with the bit is one way that people get horses to lower their head.

Unless the horse has developed the right muscles it will find holding its head difficult You can tell a lot about how correct a horse's frame is by evaluating the way he is using his topline muscles. The muscles in the horse's neck really tell the story, with an area of bulging muscle at the top of the neck behind the poll proving the horse is in a false frame, from being pulled together from front to back. The first picture shows the signs of an incorrect frame, while the one below it shows a horse that is using his neck muscles properly.

incorrect%20neck%20splenius%20muscle%20bulge.gif



correct_neck.gif
 
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Thank you that is helpful. Sorry for using the wrong term - I am a complete novice in terms of terminology. I think my RI understands the point you are making though, she emphasises very strongly that there is no point trying to do anything with Flicka's head until she has warmed up, relaxed and is going forward. She only asks me to tweak the rein - definitely not to saw. We also only do twenty minutes at a time, most of the time I ride her with an extremely light contact. However, I do feel I haven't really 'got' what she is asking me to do.
 
It is not the wrong term - it is commonly used - I just don't like the term because it isn't actually what you are trying to manipulate, it is just the end result.

Whether it is tweaking or massaging or sawing, the horse drops its head to avoid the pressure - now some RIs & riders are quite happy with this. Personally I am not and I would rather the horse work from behind because you are asking with your legs & seat - its head will come into position naturally.
 
I am feeling a bit stupid and frustrated. My RI (who also owns Flicka my share horse) is trying to teach Flicka and me how to get her to lower her head and accept the contact. Up until now I have just been riding her with a very loose contact and letting her poke her nose out if she wants to. She did have a tendency to move her head around a lot - but that has gradually got better.
I don't attempt to get her on the bit when I'm riding on my own, because I just don't know what I'm doing and will end up messing it up. Except in halt that is when she lowers her head very nicely when I ask her to by tweaking the inside rein!! But when we are moving I am trying to just concentrate on getting her nice and forward as I understand that that is the prerequisite for the rest of it anyway.
But under my RI's beady eye I am trying and failing to get than of this! So I think I realise the concept of what I'm trying to do - first get her going forward and then 'collect the energy', keep my outside hand up to support her and tweak the inside rein to encourage her to lower her head and accept the bit, when she does that - 'give' with the reins so she knows she has done well. But I find it incredibly hard to do it! When she does lower her head I tend to soften too much and lower my outside hand and then she shoves her head up again. I am also sometimes too slow to react so she doesn't always get the instant reward she should. I am just finding it really difficult!! So - any tips?
My RI says part of the problem is we are learning together. I'm away for a week now but when I get back she is going to shove me on her other horse - who is a 20 year old school mistress - so I can get the feel of how it should be. But I really want to learn how to do this without doing poor Flicks any damage. She is such a willing soul I don't want to break her. Help!


You are not going to hurt her, you need a consistent contact to work into in the first place, otherwise you are sending mixed messages. I concentrate on the rythm of walk/trot etc first getting them going forwards and active. You need to keep an even contact all the time Your not pulling or sawing but have the same poundage in the rein, they need to feel you at the end of the rein, no matter where they put there heads and use inside leg on circles or alternate legs in straight lines to get them forwards. Its hard to suggest much else as cant see how you and your horse goes? On a circle, the inside rein has enough contact that you have a slight bend and can see the horse eye, on the four points of the circle you give and take with the outside rein, whilst using that inside leg. I must admit I do the oposite to you and on a circle very quickly raise the inside hand and lower, horse will then drop down into the contact. Just bear in mind it does take time for horse to get it , you need to be really consistant though and clear with what you are asking.
 
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I struggle with it too! I find my hands develop a life of their own and refuse to stay still, and I also 'over-give' when she's taken the contact so I am basically throwing it away! It takes me a good 15 minutes to warm Roxy up and get her working in a contact. It's hard work for them too and if they're anything like Roxy, they'll only do it if you ask them properly! I also find with Roxy that she gets bored schooling in an outline very quickly and I have to make sure her work is varied, so the more we 'argue' with me trying to get her working correctly and the more she resists, the less productive our sessions are. Short and sweet works for us! Weirdly, I have a lot less problem getting her working correctly out hacking, where it's more important for me to be in control and where she's a lot more forward-going anyway!
 
http://www.myvirtualeventingcoach.c...cussion-105-horse-neck-muscles-frame-dressage It's generally polite to credit photos and articles you take from the net to the originallsource.

I am actually finding people just googling and copying other people's work as their own knowledge intensely irritating, it seems to be coming more common on here just lately. :mad:

We can all google the questions, I always assume that a poster is asking for our OWN opinion and knowledge, to give them a wider knowledge base to help them resolve issues and compare opinion. Not just plagiarism, so rude and not at all the ethos of a new rider forum I would have thought.

At least have the balls to say 'Actually I don't know - but I have googled and found this article that might be of some help' - would be far more acceptable.:rolleyes:
 
With me, you get my ill-informed, inexperienced opinion every time!

I can tell you quite truthfully that I have a good few times found some very interesting and informative knowledge posted on here from people new to horses and riding - I never write off somebody's opinion because they perceived as being inexperienced. Very often they have been taught far more up to date information than I have experience off, and well worth listening to.
 
Yes thanks for the link - I had no idea where it came from, it was posted a while ago on facebook without attribution and I remembered the illustrations - the views come from my own understanding and the last part of the text simply saved me typing it again.

We don't all use Google, there are plenty of other informative sites online.
 
Thank you everyone - for the pics, the link and tips! Short and sweet for us as well squidsin. At the moment if feels like ten minutes warm up, ten minutes trying and failing - maybe five minutes when it goes a bit better - and then I start messing it up more and more and give up!
 
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Tobes hates 'being on the bit' but we have had oceans of lessons at my last yard with my BHS'y YO, and he does understand how to do it, would just prefer not, because it is harder work!

I have never 'sawn' at his mouth, just used equal hand and leg pressure to achieve it. He is as artful as a wagon load of monkeys and refuses to be forward quite often schooling, but I do find it very handy when his is on one hacking and bowling along or being silly out hacking. Being 'on the bit' in those circumstances concentrates his mind and causes him to work which causes him to be better behaved and more controllable.
 
Thank you everyone - for the pics, the link and tips! Short and sweet for us as well squidsin. At the moment if feels like ten minutes warm up, ten minutes trying and failing - maybe five minutes when it goes a bit better - and then I start messing it up more and more and give up!
Know the feeling!
 
Tobes hates 'being on the bit' but we have had oceans of lessons at my last yard with my BHS'y YO, and he does understand how to do it, would just prefer not, because it is harder work!

I have never 'sawn' at his mouth, just used equal hand and leg pressure to achieve it. He is as artful as a wagon load of monkeys and refuses to be forward quite often schooling, but I do find it very handy when his is on one hacking and bowling along or being silly out hacking. Being 'on the bit' in those circumstances concentrates his mind and causes him to work which causes him to be better behaved and more controllable.
Same for me and Roxy - tbh I think I see the point of it out hacking so make her do it, but in the school, I'm inclined to think, well if she's not in the mood and I'm not in the mood to argue then it doesn't really matter anyway...
 
It is not the wrong term - it is commonly used - I just don't like the term because it isn't actually what you are trying to manipulate, it is just the end result.

Whether it is tweaking or massaging or sawing, the horse drops its head to avoid the pressure - now some RIs & riders are quite happy with this. Personally I am not and I would rather the horse work from behind because you are asking with your legs & seat - its head will come into position naturally.
Quite a few horses find it hard and dont go in an outline naturally, you have to teach them .
 
I have to say I am a little like sjp1 - I tend to use working correctly (I won't say on the bit!) to get Dolly listening when she is being a mare and to get her head down somewhere other than in front of my eyeline.:rolleyes: But she is actually very easy to get working correctly as someone in her past has most definitely schooled her beautifully, and thankfully she does remember when I need her to.:)
 
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