Hand sawing Action whilst riding?? Why??

Vicki100

Vicki100

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2009
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West Mids
Sorry dont know the technical term...:redface: Hope you know what i mean

Just wondering why people do it?? Whats the reasoning behind it? and what is it supposed to achieve?

Ive seen quite a few people do it recently? In life and on youtube :frown:

Is it supposed to get the horses attention? Or get them on an outline??

Makes me shudder though, cant be a nice feeling for the poor horses.

:frown:
 
Because they have no idea how the mechanics of working a horse in an outline works! They think that it's all about a 'pretty head', when in fact that's the last part of the equation!
 
What is wrong with people? Makes me sick honestly! :stomp:

I saw someone in flesh the other day do it to there horse and i really had to fight hard not to go give her a piece of my mind!

:banghead:
 
The video depicts sawing at it's worst, and the whipping of these poor horses is sickening.. near the end, these poor horses are getting beaten with all sorts, so upsetting!!
I should have warned that parts of the video are very distressing..
 
Because it's the way they've been taught. Saw at the horse's mouth and he puts his head down - job done. They don't think for a moment that the horse lowers his head to avoid the discomfort... or maybe they do, and they think that's ok.

It's this obsession with "outline" and "on the bit" and, as Lots says, people's misunderstanding of what this really is and how to achieve it.

One of my old bosses tried to teach me to get a horse "on the bit" by the sawing method... she told me that the reason it didn't work for me was because my hands were "too kind". :unsure: Now I'm a much more capable rider and I know better, I know the reason it didn't "work" for me was because I simply wasn't capable of being that rough.
 
I think what they are aiming for, and what they have got the wrong end of the stick over is the asking for the jaw to relax, which can be done by the fingers lightly, very lightly tickling the reins.

The act of the horse dropping his head to evade the discomfort of the coarse hands does not get them on the bit.......it gets them behind the bit evading it.
 
People do this to force the horse through pain to lower its head and flex its neck into a tight arch but the following happens:

1) Causes a hard mouth
2) Can damage teeth and cut the mouth
3) Creates tension in the neck
4) Develops the wrong muscles in the neck
5) Causes pain in the back
6) Creates tension in the loins
7) You willlooseyour horses respect
8) Becomes difficult to bridle (due to a sore mouth)
9) Becomes difficult to ride (due to neck and back pain)
10) Rider has no idea how to ride a horse correctly

Its 6am and this is all my brain can think of at the mo, it's a shame that many horses are enduring this treatment :cry:
 
yikes!!! pet hate of mine!

someone (a young girl with a hideously expensive dressage horse. said girl knew everything better) tried this on Angel a few years back. She got on to 'show me how its done' ... proceeded to seesaw away. Angel expressed her dismay by doing an ENTIRE LAP of the small sandschool IN REVERSE, no matter what the girl tried. Girl sheepishly got off, mumbled something about Exmoors clearly being useless at 'dressage' and never commented on anything I did ever again :giggle: I loved my pony that day :D
 
Again and again we have the bit being cruel. I have a tack room full of all kinds of bits, not one of them is cruel while it's hanging on its hook in the tack room. If I were to stick them in the horse's mouth they are not doing any harm.......it's the hands on the ends of the reins that do the damage. If they are uneducated or ill educated they will do the damage, not the bit.
 
i would love to put a bit in the riders mouth & see how they like being see sawed , also whipped ! Horrendous treatment- no wonder the horse wont jump- trying to get away from pain.
Nice one when the horse dumped its rider - well done !!
 
If you do it to Henry he refuses to move, if you are 'lucky' you can boot him round for 20 mins but I can promise you he will nap for a week afterwards.

This is why I'm no having classical dressage lessons with him to learn the 'correct' way.
 
It is why I never actually tell any pupils about the concept of outline until they are truly balanced and able to ride the horse forward so outline comes naturally. I think it far better for many average RS weekly riders to leave the front end virtually alone only picking up a contact when they can create sufficient energy and feel what is happening underneath them.

People 'tick-tocking' the horses head from side to side have instant wrath heaped on them and a long lecture on why and what they are trying to achieve. Sadly it comes mainly from the more 'experienced' riders and many will claim that is what they have been taught.
 
Dark Storm said:
Can cause a lot of problems with decreasing sensitivity of your horses mouth (hardening).. and the back end is often not quite doing what it's supposed to be doing http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/saferide/129-janesavoie.shtml Translated video I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkxOp_xfVEg
Click to expand...

Those riders should be eliminated for treating their horses in such a harsh fashion. I am sorry but I am not a great believer in forcing horses.

Eva will drop on the bit with a little gentle squeeze of the rein. I would not be happy treating any of my horses like that. I truely dislike some of the riders at these types of competitions. I am a novice and I know to take great care with my ponies mouths by not hanging on the reins for balance when riding etc
 
The only time I have ever seen sawing of a horses mouth to the degree that it has upset me has been when I have been watching the professionals at top level dressage competitons. At my RS if anyone rode like that they would probably be escorted off the premises, but it seems to be OK for the professionals to come to the competitons and ride their horses like that. It doesn't surprise me that some teenagers start to saw - they are copying riders that they look up to.
 
I had classical lessons with Fabio since he was 4. The classical way means that he's progressed slower but correctly and when he works properly, he does so with a slight ask, not brute force!

I'm not sure how true it is but apparently classically trained horses have a longer career than ones that have been trained with all the gadgets to force them into an outline from an early age.
 
I can't stand this!!! Not only is it entirely ineffective, but it does so much damage to both the horse and rider... more often than not out of total ignorance. People are too focused on quick results and "looking pretty" without taking into account quality or long term effects.

MP - Interestingly enough, there was a write up of the recent Team GB dressage win that specfically commented on Carl Hester and Charlotte DuJardin's aids, noting that when asking for higher movements instead of jabbing the horses sides with the spurs as the other competitors had done, they wiggled their heels and the horses obliged.

I hope the above is a sign of the more classical approach to dressage coming back, I love reading up about classical dressage and always try to use this approach when riding myself.

It's made a huge difference to softening up Puz, she has been seriously peeved by a rider in the past so will naturally tighten her jaw and go on the forehand.
 
nosy said:
i would love to put a bit in the riders mouth & see how they like being see sawed , also whipped ! Horrendous treatment- no wonder the horse wont jump- trying to get away from pain.
Nice one when the horse dumped its rider - well done !!
Click to expand...

My old RI (at an Icelandic stud) when I was a teenagers used to have us put the bit in the sensitive crease of our elbows (eg where the skin is dainty and easily pinches nand twinges!), stood behind us and took up the reins - this gave us a very good idea of why yanking/seasawing is really not a good plan!
 
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