Hmmm....still not sure Puzzle is quite right....opinions please

bitsnpieces

Active Member
Aug 22, 2007
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Puz has been a bit inconsistent recently, she's usually got quite a powerful movement but lately when we've been warming up she seems a bit stuffy. This has been on and off for a few months now.

It started when the saddle needed re-flocking, so got that done just before all the snow at Christmas, the saddler also made the panels a bit wider as this is supposed to help veterans (Puz is 18) be a bit more comfy. She was fine and dandy after that, then about 4/5 weeks ago she felt really restricted in her back, got the physio out and again Puz was fine. A few weeks ago the same stuffiness came back, got the physio out and just did groundwork until the saddler could come out a week later.

Saddler couldn't see anything wrong with the saddle so we resumed a bit of schooling.

I had my lesson last Weds (see I'm SUCH an idiot thread), and she wasn't right. My instructor thought the back of the saddle was moving round a bit so got on so I could see, we sat the saddle back a bit further and bob's your uncle she went beautifully (large part of that I am sure was due to RI getting after her a bit when she got on).

But when I schooled yesterday her first trot seemed to go back to being a bit rubbish, I re-adjusted the saddle position a few times but that didn't seem to work. However, I did notice that yesterday it was more isolated to stuffiness on one rein.

There are a few other things that I'm considering at the moment....

1 - This could be fitness related, she still isn't really 100% fit after a long time off over Xmas, this can cause her to be a bit reluctant in the school.

2 - She has a slightly "sticky" right hind leg, the movement isn't quite as fluid as on the left. Hence her stiffer rein is the one where the right hind is on the outside and has to stretch round on the bends. This does get better as she gets fitter

3 - Our school is very stony at the moment, I'm not sure what has happened but every time it gets harrowed these enourmous flints appear everywhere. It's almost like the membrane has gone and the harrow pulls the drainage stones up.

So....

At the moment I'm considering just leaving the school out of the equation altogether at the moment to eliminate the stones being a factor and too much pressure on her right hind if it is a bit week. I'm thinking of spending a month just increasing her fitness out hacking then slowly re-introduce schooling.

I am also wondering whether at 18, and having had a hard working life before I had her, whether she could be getting arthritic and maybe just can't really do schooling so much now (although she still carries herself amazingly when she isn't doing this stuffy thing)

What would you do if this was your horse?

Cookies for getting this far!!!!
 
I wouldn't say she's not up to being schooled, increase her fitness a little and then see how she is. Maybe try spending a little more time stretching when warmig up. Horses at my riding school work quite hard into there late 20's, as long as they are warmed up thoroughly and not pushed too much they are perefect.

Try free schooling her in the field to see if that helps, if it does you can probably put it down to either the stones or the saddle. Is there anyway you can ride her bareback to see what happens?
 
I wonder if you haven't answered your own question! It was interesting reading through your thread as you questioned different things, first the saddle, then her back, then her age and possible arthritis. I'm inclined to agree with you. In this case, if your horse is possibly in pain or discomfort doing the most ordinary things that she can usually do just fine, then I would encourage you to have a good horse vet check her over as soon as you can, and not go any further with fitness plans in the meantime.
 
oh you sounded just like I did, i knew Chanter was not 'right' I did the same as you, Saddle, back, teeth, back, physio know one could 'see' anything wrong and if I got someone else to ride they could not feel it either.

It was and is arthritis (he is 17 this year) the problem with just hacking to increase fitness is that as you are not 'working' correcty whilst hacking you can miss they way they 'feel' when working from behind and they can feel completely sound.

Ifhe is insrance I would get a fully check up if not or as just a try I would try some thing like no bute or devils claw and see if she feels better when schooled. I did this for about a year until he felt lame then went to the vets for injections every 6 months (this meant he could get back in to full work (dressage) now I am going away he is on bute once a day hoping to go for every other day soon. This is just how my boy is not saying that yours has the same but the story sounds the same.

and for the records to day was the first time in 2 months that he has been conmpletely sound and enjoying his work again.
 
Thanks for the comments guys - I'm really confused on this one I have to say!!

She has always had a slightly sticky movement on that right hind but it's never bothered her before, but it really is playing on my mind as a potential cause.

It's so confusing as she's been on and off for a few months now, the only things that have changed are the stones in the school and the saddle being re-flocked which was done before Christmas. This then makes me think that either the stones are bothering her or the saddler has made her saddle more uncomfortable - but I can't get away from thinking that the right hind could be the problem!

One thing that I noticed was that on her stiffer rein she keep trying to fix herself to an outside bend which makes me wonder if she is struggling more than usual to stretch with the hind leg.

Also, she's fine in walk and will quite happily circle, leg yield and shoulder-in, it's just trotting that really seems to p her off!

I might just have a play in the school tonight, not "school", but do some exercises to see if I can work my way through a list of criteria i.e. is she just as reluctant if her first trot is on the easy rein. If I do that with assessing her movement as my prime focus just for today then I should be able to set out some clearer boundaries in my mind as to what she seems to find difficult and make a decision to get the vet out based on that.

I had also wondered if giving her a bute sachet one morning then riding in the evening would be good test to do as that should highlight any distinct differences in her way of going?

If anyone else would like to add their thoughts I would be most grateful!!! I'm usually pretty ok at telling what's up with either of my girls but this has me stumped!
 
I had this with Rhia a few years ago. It went on for about a year where I just wasn't happy with her way of going, something had changed. I went through everything and had the vet out a few times. In the end I sent her to Liverpool for full investigations (on insurance) which never really concluded much except there were minor bone changes, possibly damage to the cartilage but to find out could potentially cause more damage. It might sound a bit drastic but I had spent so long going through what was going on in the end I just wanted to know medically if there was a problem, and there was. Then I could accept and change her workload (we hardly school or jump anymore) and she is doing ok most of the time. Before, when we didn't know, but the vet said there wasn't any bad lameness I was holding us back and she wasn't that fit because I could just tell she wasn't happy - and she isn't one to shout out pain from the rooftops. She is more likely to finish a ride with a broken leg. Which is why I took the decision to get to the bottom of it.

I am not suggesting you do this, but if you have any worry it might be worth it.

Hope you get to the bottom of it soon :)
 
I know exactly what you mean MissMare - I just want to know what is wrong, because something is wrong! It's just so irritating that our school is in such a state as this can't be helping - the stones are enourmous.

I don't want to be asking her to do something that she can't do, as I know she'll try her hardest to do as I ask. When I first got her, she was a real mickey taker and would do anything to get out of it, while she is still cheeky she hasn't been that cantankerous for a long time. I'm very reluctant to put it down to her being difficult when she had been going so well just before Xmas.

Also, this could be of significance - when my RI got on to show me how the saddle was moving a bit, you could see she was asking her to use that leg and step up a bit, then when we moved the saddle and I got on afterwards she went like a dream - I'm wondering whether the reason she went so well was not just because of the saddle but because she started using the leg properly.

The other thing that is worrying me (just to add to the list) is that when we're walking back to the yard, she is walking quite slowly - she is usually quite happy to march back to her box and some grub. This makes me think it could be pain related.

Gosh I sound like a total nutter!!!! Thing is, I've had her a long time and she's given me many years of pleasure, I don't want to be putting her in pain.
 
I know what you mean. Chanter would hack out normally and when OH rode him you would not know anything is wrong, but like you I know my man.

If I rode in the school in walk doing lateral work etc he was fine, if I troted but did not ask for him to collect he was fine, but if I asked him to collect and work with his hocks under him that is when he felt lame. he would also set his neck and not be as soft as he normally is which I now know is his big sign thats tells me he is hurting

Now when the injectiond are starting to wear off I can tell in a stride or two the day he is starting to feel lame, so now I can catch it and get it treated the next day ish.

Go with the gut if she does not feel 'right' then she is not.
 
ObC - with Puz it's the intial trot that goes all stuffy, in her general work she loves collection, although she's a chunky lady she lifts and works through beautifully - it's just getting her warmed up enough to ask for it at the moment. Doing lateral work in trot is also not a problem, the problem is that if she starts off being stuffy and reluctant then I spend most of the session getting her to work off my leg so we don't usually get round to an awful lot of lateral work.

Little update.....

I was speaking to a few people on the yard today who have said that their horses have all been reluctant to work in the school of late. I last rode in the school on Saturday eve - it had been harrowed in the morning and so was ridiculously stony (some the size of the palm of my hand, and she was striking quite a few on each stride). A few people had lessons booked all of which could only be done in walk as it was so bad, some were just cancelled altogether.

So decided not to school today funnily enough!

Instead made sure my saddle was definitely in the right place and went out for a hack - she was a superstar. I didn't push her but we had some lovely trots and she was her usual forward self.

Asked for lateral work in walk and trot and got some lovely leg yielding and shoulder in.

So today I managed to:

- work out I'm definitely now putting the saddle in the right place
- work out that hacking and schooling whilst out hacking is not a problem
- find out that others have been having similar issues over the past few months with stones in the school.

I'll hack again tomorrow to see if her enthusiasm and forwardness is still good, then on Weds I'll do some light schooling in our little school (unfortunately not great ground either, it's quite hard) but a short spell should help work out if the stones really are causing her that much bother. What I'm looking for is that when I ask for trot, does she step up and forwards off my leg, or does she dive her head down and do a stiff/shuffly type of movement.
 
After a short spell of being really quite good Puz hasn't been herself again - so I've decided to get the vet out on Tuesday.

I've been through all the potential variables and she is still up and down despite taking things out of the equation.

Personally, I think there is either

- a problem/arthritis in the right hind hock joint, I can now see that her lumber and stomach muscles are distinctly less toned on this side of her body which makes me think she's not stepping through and lifting her back properly. There are also other small things that have changed in her behaviour that have really made me think she's in pain somewhere.

- possible the very early onset of Cushings

I've exhausted every possible option that I can by myself, so the vet is the next route!
 
Have you kept a diary of weather/exercise/seasons/turn out? That might help you see patterns :) we are turning into religious diary keepers here :giggle:
 
hahaha - it's so so true! diaries can show fab tendencies

to be honest, her ups and downs are really very random and in the school, there haven't been many ups at all since the new year. I'm wondering whether the severe cold weather has triggered some arthritic changes?

One thing that has been a massive pain in the arse is that our school is really stony (although admittedly it's not as bad as it has been recently, but sand seems deeper), and that doesn't help in the slightest
 
I know the feeling with lack of ups... I so wish I had phoned the vets when madam suddenly seemed tired last year and perhaps got this early, but we still don't have any definite answers so perhaps my instinct of being told oh don't worry would have been right
 
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