Hooking on versus Join Up...

[KP nut]

I used join up a couple of times many years ago inspired by the Monty Roberts book. I hated it! I sent my then pony Charlie away and his body language, facial expressions all communicated: "What! what have I done wrong?" He then jumped out of the arena to get away from me and wouldn't let me go near him. From his point of view I had suddenly become predatorial for no reason and he was wary of me for a while afterwards.

So I never used it again. But hooking on is different. That's when a horse follows you - like they do at the end of join up - but without the sending away first. I don't really know why horses do it - I have read various theories but am not sure. I'm not also sure what the benefits of it are - maybe there are none - but I often use it at the end of a training session to check out if the horse is still ok with what we are doing. Kind of the opposite of my experience with Charlie I guess. At the end of training does the horse choose to be with me or take the opportunity to get away from me or stay indifferent to me.

This is Caspar hooking on. They don't have to be taught to do this they just do it. And if nothing else, it just feels nice!! Anyone else use hooking on with their horses? Or join up?

 

[Gimp]

Posy follows like that, I just call her a poppet rather then labelling it with a fangle dangle name. I just feel she trusts me.

 

[KP nut]

Well I guess that's what I am saying. It suggests trust. But it's quite a specific behaviour. Oscar follows me too when I have carrots! Or when he wants a scratch. But he doesn't 'hook on' in that quiet, stay right by my shoulder, way.

 

[Kite_Rider]

I tried join up with my old horse Oscars, he was fine and totally got it.
Belle on the other hand was like Charlie was with you @KP nut it worried her, she's such a popett she didn't understand why I was sending her away at all.
I don't ever think about it now, she will follow me anywhere, even out in the field. Trust and them wanting to be near is such a lovely feeling.

 

[Trewsers]

I love it when they follow me, I am never entirely sure the reason for it, sometimes I think it's just cupboard love! Though it is nice to be followed and when I stop that they stand next to me and just sort of chill together, I love that.

 

[Cortrasna]

Yes Dolly latches on quite often when I mooch about in the field - but the most loyal and glue like member of the herd is Bertie one of my donkeys - you cannot take on step in the field, go to get another in, repair some fencing etc. without his furry little face usually either resting on your shoulder or just gently nudging you as he wanders along beside me. It isn't uncommon for him to take Dolly's leadrope from me and 'lead' her to the gate beside me, silly little donk!

 

[Trewsers]

@Cortrasna Bertie sounds a real sweetie

 

[Skib]

Even as a beginner rider, horses followed me. I was told that it wasnt NH training, but they learned it from their mothers.
In any case it isnt one thing versus another - all depends on the horse and what tool makes sense. Authoritative male trainers may take naturally to join up. And horses look on quiet, steady female owners as suitable for just following?
I realise that the horses mentioned by name here are particularly nice ones. And have skilled and sensitive owners. But RS horses follow me. And I am nothing special to most of them.
The following instinct is why when given a choice, I prefer to set off first when leading. Whereas some theorists say that you need to stand and have the horse move first to establish you dominance. Again, you have to judge it by the horse and what is going on.

 

[squidsin]

I've never done join-up and never heard of hooking on! I've never done anything special to establish boundaries, I expect them to respect mine and so far that's worked out OK. Both of mine follow me round the field when I'm poo-picking but I think it's because they hope I've got polos or carrots!

 

[Lissie]

Both mine do this especially Bailey. I can run round, stop, turn etc and he'll follow every movement even if there is distractions. Don't really know why they do it and it's not because i'm carrying treats as i rarely titbit, but it makes me feel loved Never done any sort of join up or hooking up.

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

I thought you should only do join up if you are having an issue with boundaries, leading, loading etc where the horse is not listening to you and you are trying to establish a relationship.

I did it with Chanter years ago because he came from a rescue home and did not want to be near anyone. I did it, it worked every since then he has always just followed at the end of a session.

Never need to do anything like that with Ginger. After I get off from riding (I don't do ground work) I through the reins over his head and pick up the poo in the school he just follows me.

I would never send away a horse that I had a good relationship with as like others have said I don't understand why you would.

Neither really follow me in the field but I put that down to I don't give treats willy nilly (when turned back out or when I leave for the night they get a treat nothing more) so they leave me to poo pick then walk to the gate and wait for their treat as I leave.

 

[KP nut]

I did join up because according to the theory of it, join up establishes you as the alpha in the horses eyes. but I no longer believe that. I do send rude aggressive horses away but I would never do it with a horse who has not overstepped a boundary anymore. Hooking on is nothing to do with treats. I never hand treat a young horse personally. Caspar has never been treated by me.

 

[Jessey]

Mine follow me about after work if I let them, I always assumed just because I've just spent an hour telling them they must listen to my every request and do as asked, so they continue looking for any ask and doing that once you are off too. In the field hank will follow me about 'helping', Jess doesn't unless she wants something like a belly scratch. I guess Jess' early training might have been a little like join up, in that she was round penned and only once she had done all that was wanted was she allowed to rest and come to the trainer, but I guarantee it wasn't any planned kind of join up, it was just work and rest for a western trainer.

 

[Cortrasna]

Can I ask what exactly is meant by 'hooking on' and where does it originate from please. It has just occurred to me I have never seen this particular phrase used before. Obviously I knew what you meant by it as it is very descriptive, but just interested is it from one of the practitioners you follow and if so would be interested to read more about it - as it would seem that many of us on here already have horses (and donkeys lol!) that 'hook on' without making any particular effort to arrive at that outcome?

Is there a desired purpose to it - why and how do you deliberately set out to achieve a horse that follows you about etc.

 

[KP nut]

@Cortrasna Well like I said in my first post, it's not something that I train a horse to do - they just do it. And I have no idea if its beneficial either! I have read about it in several different contexts: when I did my equine assisted therapy training we were taught it was about being the herd leader - but the chosen leader not the alpha. As @Jessey says most horses will hook on after a successful training session when you have asserted your authority so they look to you for guidance. The book The Fearless Horse says it is the horse responding to 'drawing energy'. Buck Brannaman says if you drive the horse/move him around like his mother would then slip in front to lead, they will follow as youngsters follow mum. He also says horses will hook on if you represent safety or comfort to them as horses long for that. Like your donkey! I'm not sure if I am totally convinced by any of those theories but I find it an interesting behaviour. Mine aren't hooked on all the time. I can walk round the field and they might or might not approach and if they do approach they might walk near, next to or in front of me. ie go ahead to the gate or circle round to try and play. it's a totally different feel to hooking on where they stay right by the shoulder very quietly and follow your every move. Mine only do that after work. Why, I dont know. But the reason I do it with them sometimes is to check out that they are still OK with the work we are doing. I don't think a horse would hook on if he was scared, confused or resentful. When kids do it in therapy sessions it's magic. They need to get the horse moving their feet first but after that they can often unclip and the horse will hook on. And that can be with a child they have never met before. So in those instances the horse is responding to a behaviour not an existing relationship.

 

[KP nut]

ETA magic for the children I mean! It is always very special to them. I work with children in care usually with terrible histories. That kind of trust and respect given freely by a horse is very important to them.

 

[MrC]

Another natural trait in a herd animal that someone has coined a phrase for and sold by the sounds of everything stated above.

Kia follows me, eowyn followed me, pretty much same as all my other horses in fact. I wouldn't say it's because of my horsemanship skills I would just say that at that particular time they wanted to follow me, I mean Kia was being a pr!ck the other day and wouldn't be caught, feeling a bit fresh and just didn't want to come in so in that particular instance he didn't want to follow me as galloping around me like a red injun just out of reach was more fun it is very cute and we humans add human attachment to it as we like to do, we make ourselves the boss don't we so why be surprised when the horse follows.