Horse a nappy horror at shows

[squidsin]

I'm feeling incredibly frustrated with Angel. She's not an easy horse as she's stressy and clingy with other horses and often really bolshy and hard to handle on the ground, but she's fun to ride and I do think we've bonded. Training-wise, it's often a battle of wills but we're getting there with our flatwork and jumping 80-90 showjumping and XC. BUT every time I take her out to a show, it's a nightmare. Yesterday I took her to a hunter trial, and we were just doing the 70cms - a nice straightforward course that we've ridden in training plenty of times before. There was no reason not to get a clear. She was on her toes, clingy with her companion and broke away from the lorry and ran off while I was collecting our numbers! My friend caught her. Then she was fine in the warmup, jumped the practice jumps perfectly, but bronked when I tried to ride her out of the warmup (away from her travelling companion) and into the start area. I set off but could feel she was sort of cantering sideways with no positive forward energy. We got to jump THREE - a fence we've jumped loads of times before - and she put in a dirty stop and ditched me. I was fine but as you can imagine, my pride was badly hurt! If I was the crying type, I'd have been in floods, but I'm not so I just went into a foul mood instead and went to bed as soon as I got home! It's so frustrating. She's brilliant in training and will jump anything. She's so talented. But I don't know how to get her going forward when she turns into a nappy horror like that. She was reversing, spinning, bronking. Smacking her doesn't help, she's worked herself up into too much of a state to respond in a positive way to that, it would just be a guaranteed way to get bucked off. What I really need to do is take her away and ride her somewhere quiet until she calms down, but obviously that isn't an option when you have 30 seconds to ride out of the start box!

She's on Regumate which helps a bit with the bolshiness but hasn't been the miracle cure I'd hoped it would be. I ride her nearly every day and we go out in the trailer at least once a week to clinics etc. I think I need to just travel her alone as at least then she doesn't suffer separation anxiety when her companion is taken away. The downside of that is that she's harder to handle in the lorry parking and if I walk away from her for any reason, she tries to follow me and gets anxious if she can't see me, which isn't ideal.

I think the main problem is that shows blow her mind!

It's not a pain issue as she's up to date with back, teeth and tack, not lame in any way, and was fine 30 seconds before so please don't suggest I get the vet out for a full workup that will cost £1000 that I don't have. But any other suggestions are more than welcome!

 

[Trewsers]

Could you go right back to the beginning like you would with a horse that isn't used to going go events and shows, ie, take her alone just to soak up the sights and atmosphere? Tie her up like you would etc and sort of go through the motions of it all as if you were taking part? See how she reacts?? I am probably talking utter bull doody but is there any chance at all that deep down you are anticipating shennanigans and she's homing in on it?????

 

[Jessey]

I have been there, my first season with Bo I entered 26 times at different venues and only made it to the end of 1 class without withdrawing or being asked to leave and that was in hand! Practice made a huge difference but I also learned, he never went with a travelling companion, if he travelled somewhere with a horse he became a clingon, if he went on his own in my trailer behind my friend who had her horse (we did loads together) then he didn't do it I've no idea but it worked for us, though he always remained hard work, it wasn't impossible, if he travelled alone.

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

Don't travel with anyone. I can't take ginger anywhere with anyone he goes from my amazing pony to total nutter and dangerous to boot!

He still plays up if I happen to walk in to a warm up areas with someone so I have to be careful.

I use to have to take someone with me to collect numbers etc because he couldn't be left and if the other horse I took with me was not in sight tacking uo was a nightmare.

Now he is excellent will strand tied up for hours if needed.

 

[squidsin]

Could you go right back to the beginning like you would with a horse that isn't used to going go events and shows, ie, take her alone just to soak up the sights and atmosphere? Tie her up like you would etc and sort of go through the motions of it all as if you were taking part? See how she reacts?? I am probably talking utter bull doody but is there any chance at all that deep down you are anticipating shennanigans and she's homing in on it?????

Oh I am DEFINITELY anticipating shennanigans and she never fails to deliver! Her latest trick is waiting until I am out of sight (eg to go to the toilet!) to break free and set off exploring on her own. She doesn't go far and she's easy to catch but this is something she's done ever since I bought her. She loves nothing more than gallivanting round lorry parks. But I think I am reasonably calm with her. I have to be prepared for her monkey ways but I am used to them now so they're just annoying rather than worrying. However, neither of us are very experienced with shows. This one was only the second ever hunter trials/ODE we've ever been to. I haven't done much competing in the past and if she's got a competition history, I haven't been able to find any trace of it online. I broke my hand right at the start of the eventing season last year so we basically missed it all. So I think just getting show experience is a good thing for both of us and it definitely wouldn't hurt just to take her to one and not put any pressure on her, so she's able to relax a bit and soak it all in. I think that's a really good idea. Thanks.

 

[Lissie]

I wouldn't travel her with another horse. There's nothing like a journey to make horses think they are long lost friends never to be parted again. When you say she's getting free, are you leaving her tied up whilst you book in? I always leave them shut on the trailer or lorry, I'll open the top door or ramp depending what sort they are, yours I'd leave top door shut and not open up until I was getting her out. I've not had a horse like this so no experience sorry but if I did I'd just keep taking her out as much I could, at least once a week every week. Also I'd be working on go bloody well means go, so I'd do some schooling stuff to try and help with that side although appreciate when they turn nappy and clingy it can be a different ball game.

 

[squidsin]

I wouldn't travel her with another horse. There's nothing like a journey to make horses think they are long lost friends never to be parted again. When you say she's getting free, are you leaving her tied up whilst you book in? I always leave them shut on the trailer or lorry, I'll open the top door or ramp depending what sort they are, yours I'd leave top door shut and not open up until I was getting her out. I've not had a horse like this so no experience sorry but if I did I'd just keep taking her out as much I could, at least once a week every week. Also I'd be working on go bloody well means go, so I'd do some schooling stuff to try and help with that side although appreciate when they turn nappy and clingy it can be a different ball game.

Yes, all things I am considering!
I don't usually leave her tied up while I book in - she is very quick at getting away when my back is turned for 2 mins. On this occasion, I left her supervised with my friend and her pony while I went to book in, as I thought she'd be fine with company - I wouldn't dare leave her on her own! But she still got away, the menace.
Schooling is very much a work in progress but sometimes she just seems to go beyond a point where I can get her to focus on me. When she loses it like that, the only way of getting her back is dropping the reins and giving her time to calm down, but that just isn't possible when you're in a start box!

 

[orbvalley]

I don't know if this is possible as I don't compete but if it were me I'd take her with no intention whatsoever of competing. My goal would be just to take her into the warmup, get round and out again in a relaxed as possible manner then pat my horse & self on the back as though we'd just won the comp then back to trailer & home. Take the pressure off of both of you, set small goals, as small as necessary in order that its achievable & if that means just box her there tie her up a while and box home then I'd even start with just that

 

[domane]

Yes, another one voting for getting her out, on her own to as many venues as you can with no intention of competing. Lead her round, sit down on the grass and watch some classes, let her graze. Make yourself as boring as possible because she's probably picking up on vibes of expectation from you. If she starts to settle after a few times in-hand, try tacking her up. If this winds her up, don't get on but do a few more visits with her tacked up biu in-hand, until she settles again. It may be a very slow process.

Gosh, comments like this make me really appreciate Gracie.

 

[Lissie]

I wouldn't tie her to the trailer with or without company, I think it gives that type too much time to get eyes on stalks and try and pace round to see everything going on. I'd agree with just getting her out and getting her used to the atmosphere. If she's getting nappy though I'd consider travelling her tacked up if she travels well, then she'd be straight off the box and have a job to do, ridden forwards at all times. But I'm quite strict and ride anything nappy like I've stole it Hard type when a good smack doesn't send them forwards. Sounds like you need to manage her so you don't get to breakdown level. Do you go to many clinics? Maybe group clinics could be useful in training her to go a way from a group in a setting where you don't have the time pressure. I would never let her stand with others though and keep circling so keeping attention on you and moving. In the start box did you stand her? Never stand a nappy horse in a start box, out the warm up, keep them walking and let the steward count you then go through the start box as he gets to 3,2,1. I think this is still allowed.

By travelling her with her friend, standing with her friend, warm up with friend then being ask to leave and go out in the big open space on a clingy horse you're setting yourself up to fail and quite a big ask really of that type.

What's she like hacking alone? Sounds like you need to get her more confident in herself and alone. Can you go to a cross country alone, warm up and then kick on round the whole course and get her blood up a bit? I know you'd be alone so wouldn't have the problem of others but I'd start doing this so 1 she's getting used to doing things alone 2 getting her forward 3 getting her used to the job without the stresses of what's going on around her.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Could it be that she is picking up on your show nerves? I say this because you admit that you are expecting her to play up and perhaps your show nerves are transmitting onto her? I know that I get a feeling to absolute dread/fear/excitement when it's my turn to compete, so perhaps this happens to you and your horse picks up on it? You could try asking your instructor to take her to a show and see how she behaves with a different rider.

I too would avoid tying up outside the trailer at all. I tend to take my horse out alone and I never get him off the lorry until I have been to the loo, got my number and walked the course etc. All I then have to do is get him off the lorry, tack up and get on.

 

[Lissie]

I too would be interested to see what she went like for your instructor or an experienced rider. Sometimes the confidence a pro can give really gives this type of a horse a helping hand.

 

[squidsin]

My instructor is going to ride her for me at a hunter trial at the end of the month, see how nappy she is with her.

Had a jump lesson today and she's feeling very, very full of herself - think the spring grass has a lot to do with that actually!

I get nervous before shows, like anyone does, but not excessively. We go out to clinics etc the whole time and she has to be managed carefully otherwise she plays up. I travel her tacked up (unless it's a really long journey) and yes I do expect her to play up - it would be stupid not to, because she will. She also plays up for other people and is bolshy, runs through them, won't stand still to be mounted etc etc. She's not an easy horse! That isn't me projecting anything onto her. If I went to a show with the expectation that she was going to be an angel, it would be foolish! But I am quite used to handling her now and basically know I can't let my guard down for a second or she'll be off, and that she needs very firm handling. But believe it or not, I love riding her and have a bond with the crazy nutter.

Thinking about it, we've done OK in the couple of SJ and dressage comps we've done. It's XC that seems to blow her brain - I think it's the whole leaving other horses thing that's the major problem, as usually with dressage and SJ there are plenty of other horses and riders around.

 

[newforest]

I wonder if the external stimulus is just too much for her or she actually doesn't like new places.
If you boxed up on your own and went for a hack would she be happy or hesitant?

I have a nappy type that won't hesitate to go in various directions and if I'm not careful I might visit the ground. She doesn't like new places.
But I also have a scared type and there is a different feel to her if worried over wilful. If worried she's moving quicker and I can't find impulsion usually! My RI commented on it at the weekend, after we nearly wiped her out.
But what you are saying about not being able to go out of sight sounds like a horse uncomfortable in its present environment. Mine used to pull away on the yard if I popped to the loo. Didn't want to be without me and I didn't want her in the loo.

Course my other thinking is useless, so disregard.
If shows blow her mind, don't go.
I'm afraid I like a simple life now and mine wouldn't cope so I do something else.

 

[squidsin]

We go out a lot on our own together and she's fine if it's a quiet, relaxed environment. She loves going out and I wouldn't say she's scared of new places (it wasn't anyway, we've trained there loads.) I think she really enjoys shows actually - she is nappy, not fearful. She's not napping to get to me, she is just taking advantage of my back being turned! She is a bold and confident horse, the problem is she likes to be in control, and what she wanted to do was hang out with her new horse mates, not ride round the cross country! So one of the things I need to do is nip the napping in the bud before we get out into the course. Not doing this was one of my many mistakes!

 

[Tir]

I am not for one minute suggesting that I would have the balls to do this, but have you ever actually ridden her through one of her meltdowns? It sounds like the show behaviour is an escaltion of behaviour elsewhere and when she does misbehave at clinics etc you drop your reins and take all the pressure off?

My horse has a nap (and a huge buck to go with it on the odd occasion), but after a spectacular argument one day hacking over the change in colour of road surface, where I refused to take no for an answer over something so daft, he has not ever really tried it on again.

I would start by loading, driving for 5 mins and coming back to your yard and doing what you would do out. Leave her in the trailer for 5 mins, take her out, tack her up, do some work. Do it every day till it that doesnt get a negative reaction. Then find an exercise or 2 that you always will do if she starts to overboil. I like trotting 5m circles (and they often arent pretty ones!), but the only thing i ask is to move forward. I will make the circle bigger, therefore easier, but if there are suggestions of misbehavimg I make it small again. Reward the good, not the bad.

As for running off around the show ground, if you cant leave her loaded I would be using multiple lead ropes tied to multiple different lengths of bailer twine for a few trips. If she breaks the first one, but then cant go anywhere it might just be enough to stop her bothering, amd if it doesnt it should hopefully keep her where she shoild be!

Good luck, she doesnt sound like the most fun to take out, but practice should make things better.

 

[squidsin]

I am not for one minute suggesting that I would have the balls to do this, but have you ever actually ridden her through one of her meltdowns? It sounds like the show behaviour is an escaltion of behaviour elsewhere and when she does misbehave at clinics etc you drop your reins and take all the pressure off?

My horse has a nap (and a huge buck to go with it on the odd occasion), but after a spectacular argument one day hacking over the change in colour of road surface, where I refused to take no for an answer over something so daft, he has not ever really tried it on again.

I would start by loading, driving for 5 mins and coming back to your yard and doing what you would do out. Leave her in the trailer for 5 mins, take her out, tack her up, do some work. Do it every day till it that doesnt get a negative reaction. Then find an exercise or 2 that you always will do if she starts to overboil. I like trotting 5m circles (and they often arent pretty ones!), but the only thing i ask is to move forward. I will make the circle bigger, therefore easier, but if there are suggestions of misbehavimg I make it small again. Reward the good, not the bad.

As for running off around the show ground, if you cant leave her loaded I would be using multiple lead ropes tied to multiple different lengths of bailer twine for a few trips. If she breaks the first one, but then cant go anywhere it might just be enough to stop her bothering, amd if it doesnt it should hopefully keep her where she shoild be!

Good luck, she doesnt sound like the most fun to take out, but practice should make things better.

I haven't ridden her through a meltdown like that before as she's never had one like that before. She's never bronked before. I've ridden her through lots of nappy behaviour though, out hacking and so on. I've never got off her or given in. It is her testing boundaries, definitely, but it's not an escalation of bad behaviour at home. But I think she takes advantage of me being nervous and less confident at shows than I am at home or in training. Thanks for the advice - never thought about more than one tie but it's a really good idea!

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

What is your normal warm up at a show? The reason I ask is I change mine depending on his mood.

I know they say to follow the same routine you do at home but that does not always work. Trying to warm up relaxed walk long and low and build up does not always work on a spirited horse.

Sometimes I can start in walk as per home other times not a chance.

At a comp yesterday the minute I got on I could tell it was not a walk day. Got him in the warm up and pushed straight in to trot and worked him I try and keep it soft but again that doesn’t always happen if he is trying to nap or run through my hands. I push straight to forward trot lateral and lots of change in gait. Once he has settled down I go back to asking for a long low walk and stretch.

It’s just a thought but I know it has helped me.

 

[squidsin]

What is your normal warm up at a show? The reason I ask is I change mine depending on his mood.

I know they say to follow the same routine you do at home but that does not always work. Trying to warm up relaxed walk long and low and build up does not always work on a spirited horse.

Sometimes I can start in walk as per home other times not a chance.

At a comp yesterday the minute I got on I could tell it was not a walk day. Got him in the warm up and pushed straight in to trot and worked him I try and keep it soft but again that doesn’t always happen if he is trying to nap or run through my hands. I push straight to forward trot lateral and lots of change in gait. Once he has settled down I go back to asking for a long low walk and stretch.

It’s just a thought but I know it has helped me.

I normally trot and canter her round the warmup arena, flexing her and getting her on the bit and riding her until she feels settled, then take her over the practice jumps a couple of times on each rein. Relaxed walk long and low would be completely unachievable! That just isn't going to happen with so much going on around that she could be focusing on instead of me! I'm more tight circles and firm contact until she starts to chill. I think part of the problem on Monday was that it was so hot, I didn't want to use up too much of her energy on the warmup before we went round the course, so probably didn't warm up enough! I need more experience to be able to gauge what's best on the day.

 

[Lissie]

You say she's bold and confident yet I wouldn't class a nappy type as either of those things. They are usually insecure and need the confidence of other horses, this is why they look to others, herd like behaviour really can't blame them really. It sounds like even though she may appear confident she's not confident in herself going alone due to maybe some separation anxiety and then taking the p*** with it.