Horses are HORSES

[Levigal]

novice riders

In response to this interesting thread, I have to speak up for the novices. Gobby put it nicely when she said:

i beleive you should be open minded, you can learn something new everyday whether you have been involved with horses 1 year or 50 years,
but without prejudice you could have had good advice, good instructor, but surely knowledge is built over several years and its unlimited.

It seems unfair to reference all novices as "scarey." A novice with practical sense who does his/her best to find a suitable horse is different from a novice who does not use common sense and purchases an unsuitable horse. Everyone does have to start out somewhere, and part of the pleasure in owning my horse is the new challenge and new opportunity to learn. Yes, of course I will make mistakes. But I did my best to find a mild mannered, well-trained horse. Novices can be smart people who take on a new adventure with sincerity and LEARN along the way, all the while making wise decisions about riding and horsemanship rather than sketchy decisions that put a person in trouble.

I think also there is a difference between the European riding/ownership experience and the USA experience. For example, there is no opportunity for me to attend a riding school where I live. There never was as a child either. People owned their horses, and the time I spent on horses was when I rode a friend's horse on trails.

I recently purchased my own horse as that is the way I can learn to be a better rider where I live. So, location and cultures plays a role I think. But, novice riders are not the most terrible thing out there. Many of us are fresh and new to the horse world and devote a lot of time to our horses for that reason.

 

[Clipperchuck]

Maybe we have so much access to information, access to qualified instructors, experts, Parelli, NH, EE, trainers, internet, clubs, societies, riding schools etc that the simplistic life has vanished in favour of an over regimented way of learning about horses.

I'm only 30 but when I was little it was ok to ride bareback on a busy main road without a hat yes it's hard to believe if you've come to riding in the last few years but I think that people were a lot less informed about the dangers even 15-20 years ago. Not just that but the height of riding protection was a (thinnish) hat with a single chinstrap (optional).

You learnt to ride by riding, you got better, went to local shows and you if you knew the right people you could find out about competing in XC or other 'big' stuff. Whereas now you get people who search for a horse on the internet, hire a transporter to deliver it to them, join a society online, buy everything they need online and turn up to a competition with all the gear on and expect to be able to do it.

 

[KarinUS]

The internet is not entirely evil. For me it has opened so many doors!
I've been volunteering for a horse refuge for the past 5 years. Where did I first learn about them? An event page on the internet!
Last year has been a great year for OH and I in regards to being able to attend really good clinics and seminars.
A lot of them I saw listed on the internet. It is through the internet that a lot of the get-togethers with our barefoot group are organized. It's a fantastic resource to get together and have access to experts at those trim days when we all meet up in the real world.
I would have missed out on so many 'real world' opportunities had it not been for the internet. The thing is so many times it's just a starting point.

 

[laura jeanne]

There's a question in Practical Horseman this month where someone rides a three-year-old 16hh TB and wonders why he "sucks back" at fences even though she uses spurs and a crop. Just from what I have read here on NR, I thought that she shouldn't be expecting a 3-year-old to jump. Thank goodness the answer pointed this out, comparing the horse to a 13-yer-old boy who shot up to 6 feet.

It scares me that horses are totally dependent on the owner they happen to get and have to live through it if the owner is cruel out of ignorance.

I was very upset last week when I found out the two horses (they are sisters) that OH and I like to take on trail rides had been sold (I wanted them). But when we went there to ride, I saw the two horses with their new owners, two teenage girls, and saw how happy the girls were riding out together, and I had to feel happy for them! Better the two girls than two old geezers who don't know anything much and don't have enough time to spend with them.

 

[Bay Mare]

The internet is not entirely evil. For me it has opened so many doors!

Crikey, not at all, that's not what I meant at all. I've learned a lot and being pointed in different directions because of the internet. I do think, though, that people need to be aware that not everyone is quite what they seem, I don't mean in a nasty way, but just that you have to be selective about the facts that you take from it.

With regards to novice owners I mean novice riders who go out and buy a horse with very little or no experience either in riding, horse care or stable management. It may work out for some but the law of averages says that it must on occasions, there are far more times when it doesn't work out, often to the detriment of the rider, the horse or both! I personally couldn't, however, ever advise a beginner to the horsey world to buy their own horse. Sorry if that wasn't clear from what I put I know that all new owners are novice owners, I was one (probably still am in the grand scheme of things ).

 

[Yann]

This thread started off berating people who don't listen to their horses or expect them to act like horses do, that's isn't confined to ignorant novices, there are plenty of experienced people around who fit that category

 

[DavidH]

This thread started off berating people who don't listen to their horses or expect them to act like horses do, that's isn't confined to ignorant novices, there are plenty of experienced people around who fit that category

But in that case i would question whether they are really experienced or rather have just been around horses a long time. There is a BIG difference

 

[Mehitabel]

:waves walking stick in agreement with other grumpy old women:

 

[chev]

The internet is not entirely evil.

Echo that. It opens up a huge resource and access to people and knowledge we would never otherwise have had. It offers the opportunity to discuss ideas, and opens our minds to other possibilities and points of view.

But it is a bit of a double-edged sword; with so much information freely available, it also opens the door to book-rich people with little real-life experience tackling things they're not honestly ready for. I'm all for reading up on as much as possible; but I also think there is no substitute for actually being around horses. I know people who can quote extensively from Richard Maxwell or Kelly Marks, or Mark Rashid or Pat Parelli; but when it comes to putting that theory into practice they're stuffed; because they simply haven't had the chance to be with horses and learn from them directly.

I'd also clarify the use of the word 'novice' - it doesn't neccessarily mean someone new to horses at all. I've been around them for a long time, I'd class myself as pretty experienced with youngstock and suchlike; but when it comes to jumping I am without doubt a novice. In that respect, taking on a foal for me is no big deal; but taking on a Grade A showjumper and expecting to go competing this year would be madness. I know people who have ridden for years, who are very capable riders, but who've never handled a foal at all. They'd be as ill-advised to take on a foal without first getting some experience as I would be to go and buy that showjumper.

 

[Scarlett 001]

This thread started off berating people who don't listen to their horses or expect them to act like horses do, that's isn't confined to ignorant novices, there are plenty of experienced people around who fit that category

I agree totally. Not sure at what point novices became a focal point of the thread, but I see plenty of people who are *not* novices, who do far more that worries me around horses.

I bought a horse as a novice rider (riding school for 2-3 years or so). I have not jeopardized my horse in any way in terms of care or riding - on the contrary he is thriving in my care. His previous owners were *way* more experienced than me, and yet this horse was skinny, unhealthy and unhappy when I purchased him (I know as I rode him as a riding school horse before I bought him). I have a complete and total respect for horses and I try to listen to him always - although of course there is learning curve with a new horse. I have my boy on full board and moreover I bought a more senior horse, and he is very easy to work with. Myself and my instructor have doted on him vigilantly through quite a few health concerns, and I know he is in good hands for riding training and daily care - he adores my instructor and stables manager.

I have seen a few posts that worry me on here - I usually just don't reply to them. Perhaps there is a time to speak up sometimes.

p.s. Just a note that full board is about the only type of horse board available in my part of the world. So by default most owners get a lot of help with their horse care, which is great for novice owners.

"for a first pony, the age of the rider and age of the pony should add up to a minimum of 21" - and while that didn't stop problems, its sensible advice.

Gosh, Skeeter and I are well into our 50's when you combine our ages. Oh my!

 

[KarinUS]

I agree totally. Not sure at what point novices became a focal point of the thread, but I see plenty of people who are *not* novices, who do far more that worries me around horses.

Totally agree. I think many mature novices are much more likely to question themselves and are willing to reevaluate and perhaps alter their approach rather than be stuck in a way.

I have seen a few posts that worry me on here - I usually just don't reply to them. Perhaps there is a time to speak up sometimes.

I do and try to word it nicely but then I always feel like some evil witch anyway, especially when everybody else seems to be totally fine with it. And then people get upset and say rude things. And get banned. And it's all my fault...

by chev: But it is a bit of a double-edged sword;

Absolutely. That is true even for small communities like this board! I think I made one of my worst mistakes as a horse owner by following advice from here. And I also made some wonderful decision based on advice from here.
At this point I sort of evaluate the validity of any advice given based on what my 'resident experts' (aka horses) tell me and go from there.

 

[Barcie]

Amazed

I am absolutely amazed by a website that is titled "new Rider" novice riders and owners have just been put down so much in this thread.

I am amazed that someone who is 17 can say that they know so much about horses that they can put down novice owners with such certainty. There are a lot of mature riders who view this site and by mature i mean over 30. I class myself as a novice owner am 37 have owned two horses when I was under 19 and had a gap and got back into riding and owning again.

Every horse is different and indeed can you apply the same techniques to the same horse.

I am amazed that some people posting on this thread have the audacity to patronise new riders and horse owners.

By way of example I have been in my professional job for over 10 years and still come across things I do not know. This site is about helping an encouraging people and not about asaying that novices cannot and should not be horse owners. The fact that novices ask questions show that they are not stupid and that they care.

 

[chev]

I'm not knocking novices, at all.

But I do think that an awful lot of people take on more than they can handle, and that it causes problems for both owner and horse.

It's not really about how novice someone is or isn't.

 

[KarinUS]

The fact that novices ask questions show that they are not stupid and that they care.

I can not speak for everybody but I got the impression that the critizism was mostly aimed at people that may ask questions but don't really care for an answer if it is anything other than 'you are doing fabulous'?
I can think of one post where a new owner mentioned her relationship with her new horse was getting worse. I thought I was being helpful when I suggested a few different approaches and a few ideas on how to evaluate and perhaps improve the situation. The new owner was very offended and got quite angry at the thought that her horse's behavior could improve, if she did a few things differently. She much rather blamed the horse and continued with the same things, getting the same poor results.
What's the point in asking for input if really all you want to hear is that you are doing great and are just cursed with a bad horse?

Of course I could be wrong and the experienced folks on here really can't stand us less-than-20 years-riding folks!

 

[xXSundanceBayXx]

I am absolutely amazed by a website that is titled "new Rider" novice riders and owners have just been put down so much in this thread.

I am amazed that someone who is 17 can say that they know so much about horses that they can put down novice owners with such certainty. There are a lot of mature riders who view this site and by mature i mean over 30. I class myself as a novice owner am 37 have owned two horses when I was under 19 and had a gap and got back into riding and owning again.

Every horse is different and indeed can you apply the same techniques to the same horse.

I am amazed that some people posting on this thread have the audacity to patronise new riders and horse owners.

By way of example I have been in my professional job for over 10 years and still come across things I do not know. This site is about helping an encouraging people and not about asaying that novices cannot and should not be horse owners. The fact that novices ask questions show that they are not stupid and that they care.

Well said barcie. this site is for helping people not putting them down because of their lack of knowledge. i joined here because of the friendly advice people give when you need it. im not trying to cause offence but the people that ask want help and to learn, if they didnt why would they waste their own time typing out their question??

ps i agree with you too karinUS, there are occasional people who only post for a good response like 'oh youre doing real great' but most are asking for help and are very grateful for it.

 

[JOJOBA]

I agree with Karin - In one case that sticks in mind (because it irritated me) one person came online asking what kind of horse they, as a fairly young and inexperienced person, should buy - they were wanting to get a foal. We all said to buy an older more experienced horse, in fact LOTS of people came on, and ALL said the same thing.
The person then posted adverts for their foal, and once more we all said it was a bad idea, that they could get hurt, they could ruin the foal etc etc.
And then they went and bought the foal anyway.
So why exactly did they ask?

xxx

 

[Crazyhorse]

I think that there are a lot of people who ask for advice, but already have their mind up and just ignore the advice given. There was a recent example of a thread that ran into pages of advice, but every response was pretty much ignored, with the poster just wanting someone to agree that they should get a horse. New Rider is great as some people ask questions here that they wouldn't have the confidence to ask in " real life", surely that is a positive thing. I would much prefer to see simple questions from those wanting to learn than loads of postings from " experienced rider" posting pic after pic in effect showing off. I agree that a lot of the posts have really shot novices down. I am a novice, and proud! I had to wait until I was older enough to work before I could afford my old lessons and in the past five years have loved every step of the journey and am so willing to learn more, with the advice and help of professionals. Yes, I am sorry that I had to wait years to ride and did not grow up riding mad ponies and getting bucketfulls of experience, but that is the way the cookie crumbled!

People may at times take on more than they can handle, but isn't foresight a wonderful thing

 

[RachelEvent]

I am amazed that someone who is 17 can say that they know so much about horses that they can put down novice owners with such certainty.

Excuse ME Barcie, but the focus on novice owners was not one initiated by me. The title of my original post is "Horses are Horses" and was not really much to do with novices at all. We have all been complete novices, and we all are to some extent novices. As Chev mentions, we can be experienced in one area and know nothing about another, I am not experienced with breeding or youngstock but I know a fair amount about cross country riding for example.

My real intention for this thread, and actually a point which has barely been touched upon, is people's reactions when their horse does something horselike. I read so many threads, or see in real life, riders worried about their horse having done two bucks or similar, and they don't feel they can cope. Then when questioned further, and you find out that the horse hasn't been ridden for two days and has been stuck in the stable and the weather is bad, I don't see how they can expect their horses not to buck or to show some other kind of energy release.

It is oft written on this site that "Horses aren't machines" which is completely true, and its oft written that "Horses aren't people" but still you see both kind of attitudes across this board and across real life.

I have no problem with people asking questions, quite the reverse, it's a shame that enough questions aren't being asked.

Yes, I am truly worried by the number of novices owning horses - it's a prime way for horses to be spoilt, it's a prime way for people to lose their confidence. Novice is subjective, and I think what most people find out after leaving a riding school, are that those first few months make everyone feel like they are back to square one. I understand that in many cases people will buy a horse because the riding school no longer offers any route to progression, and thus I am not pointing blame at novice owners, but rather at a saftey blanket society which is preventing riding schools from teaching the grittier aspects of horse riding, and riding instructors who do not have that kind of knowledge themselves. What I am saying refers mainly to Britain, and a changing culture of equestrianism.

Trying to connect this disjunct topic of novices back to my original intentions for the thread - the main problem that arises with novice horseowners (bearing in mind that novice applies to us all on some counts, that it's subjective, and that we've all been there) is that when their horse starts to act in a typically horse-like manner, they can't neccessarily cope. They might not have had the instruction required to understand the difference between a horse misbehaving, a horse in high spirts and a horse in pain. Even the most experienced riders have trouble working these things out, but quick reactions are what prevent horses devloping bad habits, or health problems etc.

I come on to Newrider myself to learn about horses, but I learn most things about horses from horses themselves and in person from people who have spent a lifetime around them.

 

[JOJOBA]

I very much agree with everything you said Rachel. Especially about 'novice' being subjective. I know NOTHING about breeding, showjumping, competing, and a whole other list of things. However I do believe I might have some interesting points when it comes to things like schooling or problem solving, because it's all I do! Everyone on Newrider has something worthwhile to say, even if it's just 'yeah I made that mistake too'!
I love coming on here and Ive learnt so much from it - people should always ask for help, there's so many times Ive come on and whinged about things and had sympathy and advice.


xxx

 

[chev]

Especially about 'novice' being subjective.

Exactly. Every one of us could be called novice in one area or another; none of us have all-encompassing experience by any means.