Is it Possible??

HorseCrazyGurl!

HorseCrazyGurl!

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Hey Everyone!

I have a 15 year old Standerdbred cross and i was wondering if it would be possible to convert him into a western pleasure horse?!
Right now he has a nice slow western walk but his trot is a little fast. also, he wont lope/canter for me at all! (i think because hes a standerdbred cross and possible an ex-trotter) he also doesnt neck-rein! would it be possible to convert him into a nice western pleasure horse??

here are some questions that i hope you can help me with...

1) How can I teach my horse to convert his fast trot into a nice steady jog?
2) How can I get my horse to canter/lope (i know he's able to because Ive seen him canter with his buddys in the field, but how can i make him do this while im riding?)
3) How can I teach my horse to neck-rein.? (hes also broke to drive and this was the privious owner's excuse for him not neck-reining. she said it confused them when you ride them with neck-reining and drive them with normal stearing)
4) How can I over all get my horse to slow down but maintain the same gait?

If you can help me with any (or all) of these questions, please do!!

THANKS!!

~*Nicole*~

P.S. I dont want to show my horse in western classes, i just want him to be able to do the things above! Is it possible?!?
 
Is it possible?! Sure, anything's possible. It was possible to split the atom, doesn't mean it was necessarily easy! ;) :D I suppose you could teach him to neckrein, but as far as dramatically slowing his paces; that would be a bit difficult. You could do some work on collection with him. At the trot, work on asking him to bring his head in and slow his trot. I'm not a trainer, maybe someone else here has more advice for you. But this is what I would start with. :)
 
Well I'm fairly new to the western pleasure world but I have been reading anything I can get my hands on. I will try to answer as many questions as I can, with that said let me make some suggestions!

A few of these suggestions may not work depending on your horses training background. How are you cueing him to do different manuevers? Can he move away from pressure? Most of my suggestions are based upon my assumption of him being trained this way.

First off, I'm sure it is possible to turn your Standerdbred in to a little western pleasure horse, but always be patient and don't get frustrated! I have heard of a Standardbred (ex-pacer) being turned into a barrel horse - a FAST one at that! Anyways, to answer your first question. How do you cue your horse to trot? Do you tap/kick him into a trot, or do you squeeze him? One of the articles I read recommended to squeeze your horse up into a trot, which gives you a fluid transition where your able to keep your horse at a steady pace. When you go from a walk into a faster trot your horse has almost a jumping effect, so when you squeeze into a trot your able to pace your horse and slow him down a bit. Another thing is collection. Do you know how to collect a horse? When you collect a horse, you are encouraging him to keep himself together and not so strung out (as you mentioned).

Second question - is it that he just continues to trot faster or does he just refuse to canter? Just maintain your cues and maybe get alittle crop and tap him on the butt (emphasis on tap, do not beat or slap him!) for an extra "UMPH".

Third question - What type of bit do you use? The type of bit will affect his training. Two good neck reining bits are the Argentine Snaffle aswell as the Tom Thumb. Although, I use an O-ring on my mare and she does just fine. I will not really be able to help you until I know his full training background. Get back to me on that and I will try to help answer this question :)

Fourth question - As I've already mentioned, be consistent with what you ask him for. Don't go out there one day and try to get him to do a slow jog, and then go out there the next day and let him do his normal trotting. Whenever you feel like he is getting faster, do this: Pull back SLIGHTLY on the reins while squeezing with your legs. It is basicly a half halt. What this does is slows him down while your legs are telling him to keep on truckin!

The fact that you do not want to show him in a western pleasure show is alittle relieving. Some judges are alittle weary about placing anything other than quarters, or like breeds. I very much believe that you will be able to train him but just keep an open mind and try to read as much as you can about training.

Please email me at bigbaby_taylor@wouldilie.com if you have any further questions about what I've mentioned above. Thanks.
 
Yes, i think it is definately possible to retrain your horse to do the things you want to do. Standardbreds have been retrained into practically every discipline, and i think they are great horses (i work with harness racers, and all the retired ones i know are great as well! Some even look a bit like quarter horses ;) ).

To get him to canter, try asking him as he trots over a pole on the ground or a very small jump. Many horses break into canter as they depart the jump. I'm not sure how to teach him to neck rein, but i have no doubt that it is possible- there are many horses (including my old mare Misty) that are both english and western trained. If they can be ridden on day with neck reining and the next with direct bit aids, i cant see why your horse would be confused by being ridden with one sort of aids and driven with another. Misty was also harness broke when she was young, a real alrounder, but she lost her confidence badly when a drunk person drove her and another horse and spun them around on a road and flipped the cart, badly hurting her.

So my long winded point is that i'm sure it is quite possible, and best of luck to you both!

Also, there are books on retraining harness racers available which would probably help, as your horse seems to have problems many trotters/pacers may have like fast trotting and no canter.
 
Thanks everyone!!! :D!! Your advice is great and Ill start working on it as soon as possible!!

Danae : Ill try to answer your questions as best I can!!

1) "How are you cueing him to do different manuevers? Can he move away from pressure?" Yes, he can move away from pressure. I cue him with a combination of leg signals and voice commands.

2) " How do you cue your horse to trot? Do you tap/kick him into a trot, or do you squeeze him?" To get my horse to trot, I cluck/kiss to him and give him a light sqeeze. If he just speeds up his walk I will then I will give him a little kick but he usually responds to the voice commands and leg squeeze.

3) "Do you know how to collect a horse?" Nope, but I do now because you just told me!! ;)

4) " Is it that he just continues to trot faster or does he just refuse to canter?" When I ask for a canter, he will just trot REALLY fast!! (He can go as fast as a cantering horse while he maintains a trot!! In fact, he even won a barrel race while trotting!!)

5) " Just maintain your cues and maybe get alittle crop and tap him on the butt" I have'nt yet attempted to use a crop on him because I have a feeling that he was abused in former homes. I think this because one time I tried to flick him with the lead line while leading him to get him to trot and he threw his head and shied away. Also if you move to pet his face he throws his head up like he thinks Im going to hit him. So because of this I havent tried to use a crop on him because I feel he might get scared! :(

6) "What type of bit do you use? " His bridle came with him and it came with a jointed egg-butt snaffle bit so I have continued to use this on him.

Thanks for the advice everyone!!! :D!!
 
Considering that western style originated from english style anyway, I am quite sure that it will be possible to train your horse to western.
As we speak I am trainining a western trained, 14yo American Quarter Horse, english style. In just two months we are making huge steps toward self carriage, rein contact and have begun lateral movements.

I am also a firm believer in that you can teach old dogs new tricks, so the age of your horse shouldn't be too much of a factor, providing he has the willingness to learn or try new things.

Goodluck and Cheers! Aly
 
Did Western really originate from English?

It seems that on the old drawings and artifacts the tack actually looks more Western than English with those bulky saddles etc.

Here's one from 650AD:
PA240008.jpg



I would think it should be easier for a Western trained horse to add English to its skills than vice versa, but I am sure it's possible...
 
english?

Tack in various regions has evolved to suit purpose and horse types but I can't quite pick where your photo is from, is this Chinese?

Anyway, I always assumed that western riding was based on Spanish tack, since the Spanish were the first into the America's with horses and were very influential early on. If you take a look at modern French and Spanish peasant saddles you see what looks very much like western gear - and they use curb bits etc.

...and don't forget that the US is the only place in the world that refers to 'English' riding ;) when you mean anything other than western. Which is a bit odd considering the English have had little (relatively speaking) to do with the development of some of the horse sports\arts.
 
virtuallyhorses said

...and don't forget that the US is the only place in the world that refers to 'English' riding when you mean anything other than western. Which is a bit odd considering the English have had little (relatively speaking) to do with the development of some of the horse sports\arts.

This is not true i live in Australia and we do this as well i also know they do it in NZ.
 
Sorry, I should have used better English and stated that western riding did originate from the spaniards. At least that is what I have read and what my coach told me.

Western tack does in fact resemble spanish tack quite closely, among others.
 
trot/canter - and 'eastern' tack

In Sweden there is a big trotting thing, so a lot of ex-trotters out there to be riding horses. These horses are taught that canter is BAD, so you have to find gentle ways to let them know its ok now.

A friend I rode with would just put her horse into situations where he might want to canter, and make sure to tell him he was good when he did. He is gradually getting the hang of it :)

For example, going up a hill - its hard work and not something you find on the track, so the horse broke into canter one time - found he did not get told off, and was happy to do it again.

Then onto tack. If you look at Mongolian saddles and some of the archeological finds from that continent, they are different to both 'english' and western saddles. The Mongolian ones have built up front and back, but are very short front to back. The way of riding is also different.

Trouble is that us first world folk tend to assume that we are all there is - WRONG !! Think of all those nomadic horse back hordes that brought down the Romans....:D
 
HorseCrazyGurl -

Okay I'll try to continue my suggestions in the same format of 1,2,3 :)


1.) Since he does respond to leg pressure, squeeze him up into a trot. If he goes into a more extended trot (posting) than do the half halt thing I taught you.

2 and 3 have basicly been answered

4.) Well I haven't had any experience with the Standardbreds so I can't give you much advice on the very fast trot..quite a talented horse if you ask me :D !

5.) Okay do not use a crop than!! As I already said I don't have any experience with Standardbreds so I couldn't answer your question in a direct manner, so I have two suggestions. First, try doing some reasearch online about retraining them. Second, see if there's anyone in your area that has some experience with retraining Standardbreds and perhaps they could help you.

6.) Well I don't know about the mechanism of an egg-butt because its mainly used for english. If he's still responding to your cues in it, I say just let the boy have it :)

I hope this is of some help, sorry it's rather lengthy but good luck in training!!
 
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Originally posted by Sefroniaau
This is not true i live in Australia and we do this as well i also know they do it in NZ.
Click to expand...

excuse the off topic but ...Really?? :eek: Is this a Melbourne thing? or are you involved in the western scene is Aus? I've never heard anyone refer to "English riding" nor seen it in any of the NZ\Aussie mags or websites (unless they are targeted at an American audience) - but I take it all back if there is a secret stash of Aussies (or anywhere else) referring to 'english riding' too ;)

In NZ its just 'riding' since hardly anyone here does western riding... dressage is dressage, hacking is hacking, eventing is eventing etc etc but I don't think I've ever seen a reference to 'english'. Who\where in NZ have you seen it referred to ?- inquiring minds must know :)

and CVB ouch! yes, I've seen those mongolian saddles - don't know how they do it, you'd certainly learn to balance in your stirrups fast if that was your option for sitting! :eek:

KarinUS - not really, I've got quite a few Chinese horse prints and they 'do' horses in a particular style - the decoration on that one really threw me though - the little hearts or pink ivy or whatever is more like European decoration.
 
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As you probably know, I had the standardbred-Vance, for a few months. Now, what I can tell you refers to the racing side of things, and it might help you understand what he does..
If he was driven, or raced, he would have been told off for cantering, and he would have been pulled back immediately and growled at, as that is called breaking. All i can say, if he "accidently" (which he will think is naughty) goes into a canter, PRAISE, PRAISE, and MORE PRAISE!
 
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