It feels like a weight might have been lifted....torn pec

Jeesh! I jumped out of my skin watching that vid! :redface:

The reply from the back man is more positive.... in a roundabout way - it still gives you hope that his muscle tore a while ago. Have you tried trotting him in a right circle yet? Did he mean in-hand or ridden?
 
:eek:Goodness FM agree with Domane I also nearly jumped out of my skin. That doesn't look like a normal sort of girthy to me , it looks like he was being hurt & letting you know ( did think he was thinking of stabling you :biggrin: ).It does sound as if you've found out what was wrong with him , so possibly a positive step forwards :unsure:
 
Blimmee that is quite a sudden reaction and agree not typical girthy...was that lump there when the back man started or did it come up that big after he manipulated it?

I know you feel down about it all but you are such a good mum to flip and really want to get him feeling better.
 
FM, I know this is a serious thread, but I have to ask you if that is your Kent&Masters 17" XW Cob saddle on Flipo in that video.

It looks like a cherry on an icecream!

The same saddle on Ziggy comes more than half way down his sides.

Lordy lordy, Flip is BIG!

But you knew that of course...
 
Hindsight is an amazing thing!! I think I was the only one who didn't really jump when he did it - my camera woman even flinched as you can tell!! I'm going to do some more digging back through my memory - luckily I write things down and take heaps of vids (sad bugger). I remember him snapping like this three times in all, once without the saddle being there at all but at the time I stopped riding, bought a new padded girth and had his saddle and back checked and it wasn't picked up at the time. I put it down to him just being a pansy and being unhappy with the saddle fit, he can get himself all in a tizzy sometimes so put it down to sensitivity. Now I see things differently but not sure if we will ever know any more for sure. Just hope I can now strengthen him up and get him back to full health for next year. I'd really like to just enjoy some stress free hacking!
Yep I know Jane its tiddly isn't it, hes a clydesdale or shire with his legs chopped down a bit.
 
For some reason, my blasted computer won't let me see that. It gets stuck.

So can't comment on that, except that I agree that saddle looks absolutely minute on him!!!!

As far as haemotoma goes (spelling dubious!), it will look ghastly for a few days, like elephant man. But for some reason it doesn't cause them much pain - I suppose the swelling protects the injury.

It will go down pretty quick but you will be left with a lump for a while which you will constantly stress about (if you are anything like me!).

Don't even think about retiring him. He is low mileage and has had a few scrapes and issues. So has mine, wither swelling because I went treeless and the pommel pressed down on one side (how stupid was I as I felt tipped forward on that silly saddle, but took no notice!), leg with cut got infected, took three bottles of antibiotic injections to sort it, shoulder had a real issue, cue mucking about good and proper with the farrier ............ the list is endless!!!

Chin up, if he is bucking and kicking, he is not in agony!!
 
It is possible the fall he had, although a nasty one, has helped to show what's been going on.. clearly in the video, he's not happy when you go to tighten the girth, his reaction shows something in the armpit area, where the lump now is.. I have my fingers crossed that you now have the answer to what's been bugging both him and you for nearly a year xx
 
Oh FM!!! I don't know if I'm happy or sad for you reading this! Wouldn't it be great if you had got to the bottoms of the issues? But equally, I totally know that feeling of something ELSE being wrong with our beloved too! It just isn't fair is it?

I really really hope that this new discovery helps though on the road to recovery. Hang in there FM, you will come out of this dark tunnel soon. As they say, one day, this all shall pass.

Until then, ((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))

And tell Flip that show jumping doesn't suit him!!!
 
You sound a bit like me hun in the sense of analysing things to death!! I am the queen of over thinking and can honestly say it's not a good trait to have,just end up driving yourself mad!!

Take a step back,see what the next few days bring and go from there.

I have become very used to the two steps forward and one step back with the spotty one,although his tends to be more behaviour than health,it can become a real treadmill of despondancy if you let it.

It is only recently that I have felt am making real progress and reaping the rewards of the all the hard work.Have had him nearly 3 years so not a quick process lol.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that even when things just seem to be constantly sent to try you and one thing after another,it can always get better.
I have had moments of thinking my lad would never be more than a big pet as he can be so unreliable ridden wise,but here we are hacking out alone and in company and I'm laughing rather than cacking myself when he does his Tigger impressions at a random leaf blowing across the road.I finally have some faith in my pony and it's a wondrful feeling:smile:

It will come good just the same for you I know it will.

Flipo's health issues will sort themselves out,your faith will be restored in him and your own ability and you will both be out hacking until your hearts content,you just have to believe it.
 
Well 'elephant horse' is doing fine today so I'm a bit happier with the situation. (ta SJP1 - I was worried it had got even bigger but your description calmed me - I also had a look on google images...wish I hadn't now, yuck!!!). Definitely no longer lame so I'm gonna start walking him out again inhand and am doing some massage on it with arnica gel - he seems to love that. Vet will hopefully call tomorrow.
I like to look for the meaning in everything - there's a reason for all that happens in life and yes Dark Storm, I think Flipo's little jumping attempt was a means of showing me what the problem has been (as well as reminding me to do more despooking with rugs!) Its so kind of him to have gone to the trouble to communicate his pain!
LWTB if anyone understands what I'm experiencing then you'd know and I feel stupid for being so excited that I might have found something wrong with my horse!! I'm slowly formulating my game plan with insurance and vet, have lots of questions to ask so am feeling slightly optimistic! And yes, showjumping is definitely not his forte although he gave it a damn good go - I was a bit impressed!!
Thank you DL. Having had a few days for all of this to sink in, I'm now seeing a light at the end of the tunnel hopefully. This better just be some long and elaborate way of Flipo making me realise that I should quit being so nervous and just ride as much as possible....all this health stuff getting in the way has made me desperate to ride. Such is life.
 
Flip1002.jpg


Flip1001.jpg


Well, a little update, the elephant horse is no more (well, almost no more).
The swelling has gone right down, its still there and I'm rubbing arnica gel into it morning and night, but he's not lame and seems good.
I spoke to the vet yesterday and she poo poo'd the backman's suggestion re muscle tear having caused the enduring lameness. She says muscles heal so if it had happened, she would have expected him to be super lame on it at first.
I don't know what to think now. I specifically asked the back man if this could cause such a slight lameness that I feel when I'm riding on left hand circles and hard ground...even a year after the original event. He said yes. Vet says no. I asked about doing an ultrasound and she said there was no point as that would only do for diagnosis and we know the muscle tear is there now.
I guess I wanted her to connect the muscle tear to the lameness so that we could get the exclusion updated on my insurance. :cry:
So vet is coming out in two weeks time to do another set of Xrays. At least we will see if anything has changed since last year. I think my money is still on this being a muscle tear so I will follow the backman's advice re stretching, massage and work and see how we go. I might try contacting the dick vet in Edinburgh and ask if they think what is being suggested is at all possible. I don't know who else expertwise re lameness and muscles i could speak to....suggestions on a postcard?!
 
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That's a shame that the vet's opinion differs from the back man and I imagine you're feeling pretty confused now!!!

The muscle year does tie up with the extreme reaction to girthing, it is at all possible that the tear was causing discomfort rather than full on lameness? Maybe if it was only a minor tear that's now been made worse with his flyin attempt?

I'm no vet so I'm not in a position to contradict anything they say, but it can't hurt to continue with the stretches etc and see how that helps in the long run.

If it helps, Puz has an old injury in her groin that was found by a physio a few years back. On this leg she has a funny movement that when she's unfit looks like minor lameness, this is due to the muscles being weak and affecting her ability to give a smooth movement on that leg. It always gets much better as she gets fitter and I can always feel the difference in movement when it's weak. When the vet was seeing Puz for lameness in a front leg, he noticed her funny hind movement and his exacts words where "I'd be far more concerned about that hind than this front leg, she's more lame in the hock on that one" (she'd been on box rest so it was stiff) ....but the issue isn't in her hock at all. So I guess it is possible for the lameness to look like its coming from one area when it actually isn't, but I'm definitely not qualified to question a vet.
 
vets don't always know everything. Ask them about more complicated stuff sometimes and you get a complete blank.
A vet poo pood me saying about keeping horses off grass duriing day or when frosty and said grass was grass.
Do you use an equine vet?
 
All horses are different and show things in different ways. Some would go lame some not

It is a big lump in comparison and yes muscle heals but that takes time as in months.

Have you had physio? When Jack did something to muscles between back legs it was trimmer who found it, vet just said rest but physio came and did laser treatment and gave me daily exercises. He was a little unsound but kicked off if you went anywhere near it. Vet felt he had done the splits as field was wet etc etc.
It healed fine.
 
I think splitting it down, there's two issues here that I'm worried about.

1. I believe the back man - and will do some research re physio. Having seen and worked with Flip for the last year, this really fits what I've experienced. My gut says its right and so I'm going to pursue treatment that supports it. I'm also going to attempt to contact the vet at Edinburgh hospital and see what he thinks.

2. I need to drill down the diagnosis so that it doesn't impact badly on any future claims I have with the insurance. Based on what other people have said on my insurance thread, I'm looking at what other companies will do for me knowing the situation, as well as looking to have my vet write something out more specifically that will support a smaller exclusion on my insurance (than 'conditions causing the clinical signs of lameness' )
 
REally really not loving this right now. Vet doesn't think she'll find anything on Xrays but we're doing them anyway. :unsure: She said if the dick vet couldn't find anything then the chances of her being able to be more specific with the diagnosis is next to nothing.
Now I've got to organise getting the farrier out to take the shoes off and then come back and put them on again after the vet's been. Farriers are mega busy because they've been on holiday so I'm waiting on an appointment since last Friday without much hope of it happening this week.
I'm then going to have to arrange for them to come back out to shoe him.
What doesn't help is the fact that Flipo will need sedated for all of this, so three sedations in the space of a couple of weeks (If I can get the farrier back that quickly). I really really just want to climb into a hole and give up right now. Farrier visits are incredibly stressful as it is, now I've got two in quick succession and a vet visit in the middle that seems like an utter waste of time but if I don't do this now, the insurance runs out and then I find out something really bad is going on then I'm royally f**ked.

I really just want to take the easy route and cancel the vet appointment, get him shod and work on this muscle stuff, but I might kick myself if I don't so I just need to suck it up, put up with the inconvenience (my work are going to go daft with the amount of impromptu time off I'll need for the farrier.)Things are bad. Its now not my time of the month and I just came off the phone from the vet and cried at work. I need to get a grip.
 
FM, the difference in the size of that lump!! Phew, so happy that is reducing, good news. Agree with Nookster, Flip is very lucky to have you as a mum.

I think you have shown that you should trust your gut instinct and all the stretching, massage etc suggested by the back man sounds like it can only be a good thing and something that you can do with no further expense!

So sorry, no experience of insurance so have no useful advice.

Keeping all things crossed that the lameness now stays away for good.
 
Why do the shoes need to come off to xray? Izzy's front feet were x-rayed with his shoes on. Maybe something to ask the vet as at least that would be one less thing to worry about.

Did the vet do an MRI scan?

Have you got a magnetic rug? That might help with the healing of the torn/sore muscle.

My friend's horse had a torn muscle in his shoulder. He was very difficult to mount and just not going forward and it took them ages to figure it out. He had some time off and then about 6 months of long lining but came back as good as gold. So with the right work you should be able to sort this sore muscle out.

Sending you vibes.
 
Thanks GR and Tiga.
I think specifically because this lameness is put down to a medial lateral imbalance, they need to see how the sole of the hoof is? I asked if the vet could remove them, but she's not for it. TBH I'm not overly impressed with the vet but I'm putting it down to just not hearing what I want to, its not her fault!!
I'm coming up with hardly anything in regards to support for muscle rehab and its really frustrating - admittedly all I've been doing is googling, but there's just very little. I'll have a look at magnetic stuff, thanks Tiga, although being where it is, I don't know if there's anything I can use!
ETA - they didn't do an MRI at the vet hospital. They said try this, if it improves fab. And it has, but there's still that little niggle that gets me on a circle. TBH they don't think he would have fitted in the MRI machine.
 
Belated thought-have you thought of being barefoot. Is being shod contributing to the problem. If he is really really against the idea there has to be a why. For horses is usually fear or pain. I am thinking of foot balance and being lame.
 
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