LGL and barefoot? Please help...

Est

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Feb 20, 2005
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I would like to take Merrick barefoot again. In 2005 (Sep-Dec) I tried him going barefoot using the HPT trim, with an EP. At the time it seemed a disaster, with Merrick becoming progressively crippled despite following all the recommended transition procedures very carefully. By the time he was 6/10ths lame all round, my vet passed us on to a remedial farrier, and he has been shod ever since, coming sound towards summer 2006.

My vet said at the time that Merrick has very thin soles. He also has a natural tendency towards being pigeon toed, which got steadily worse when barefoot (which surprised me). When I bought him, he had very underrun heels and long toes.

Merrick is totally out of work and has been since winter 2004, due to arthritis in his stifle, and back problems (now pretty much "fixed" - vet and chiro are both happy with their respective areas!). He is stabled at night all year round on rubber matting and a 2-3" deep shavings bed over half the floor. He has ad lib hay at night which is moderate quality, and a small feed at night (single handful of alfalfa chaff which carries his supplements - Devils Claw, glucosamine, vitamin and mineral mix). We do bits of groundwork in the manege (rubber surface) and go for walks inhand around the farm. He is *very* ouchy over uneven or rough surfaces, and always has been. The grazing is better than I would ideally want, as it is ex-dairy pasture and there is grass all through the winter. The other liveries' horses are fine on it, but it is a worry.

Although Merrick has had some very sound periods, following some recurring lameness issues, ranging from shortened stride to almost non-weightbearing, I now wonder if going barefoot simply highlighted an underlying problem.

There are two specific areas I could do with some advice on.

1. I believe Merrick may have low grade laminitis. Around 3 weeks ago, he turned out "sound", but came in very sore, with some warmth in his hooves. He became more lame over the next 2 days and showed a slightly increased digital pulse all round, so I called the vet. In the belief there may be an abscess, although there was no reaction to hoof testers, the vet pulled his near fore shoe and pared away a lot of the sole. This exposed a tiny bruise near the toe which bled a little. For two weeks after that Merrick wore a Hoofeze boot continuously, with a dry animalintex poultice for 4 days, and then several layers of nappies after that. He was on Danilon for 1 week (2 sachets daily) and also magnesium for 2 weeks (3 tablets daily). Losing his shoe and most of his sole made him severely lame, which skewed our observations of the progression of the lameness somewhat. However, even though my farrier has now got a shoe back on, Merrick is not particularly improved from when he first showed signs of lameness. He stumbles a lot, oddly when his off fore touches the ground, and still stands with the near fore in advance of the off fore. His front hooves have flare, and after just a few days of shoeing at this time of year the clenches are usually risen. This year, unusually, there are cracks and small chunks of outer wall missing. I also think his heels are still somewhat underrun and his toes perhaps still a bit longer than ideal. He is tight mouthed when being led to and from his stable and really isn't comfortable. Bearing all this in mind, does it sound like LGL or something completely different? Should I wait for significant improvements before re-attempting to go barefoot? Is it worth continuing to add magnesium to his diet? Should I play it safe and go for box rest, soaked hay, deep bed etc for 7-10 days - basically act as though it's definitely LGL and see if there is an improvement?

2. Going barefoot. Should I assume that our failed last barefoot attempt was due to (possible) recurring LGL, and that if I can deal with this (or whatever other underlying problems there may be) the HPT trim could still be a viable option for us? Or would it be wise to try a different method? I would very much prefer to use hoof boots this time to help with the transitioning process - I got the feeling last time from my reading that the use of boots was... not exactly frowned upon, just perhaps not in the spirit of going barefoot according to the purists. But I am very concerned for his comfort levels. When his shoes are removed or cast (very rare) the heat in his hooves and soles is immediate and so is his discomfort. Perhaps boots and the use of Keratex or pine resin?

Any advice would be really appreciated :)
 
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2. Going barefoot. Should I assume that our failed last barefoot attempt was due to (possible) recurring LGL, and that if I can deal with this (or whatever other underlying problems there may be) the HPT trim could still be a viable option for us? Or would it be wise to try a different method? I would very much prefer to use hoof boots this time to help with the transitioning process - I got the feeling last time from my reading that the use of boots was... not exactly frowned upon, just perhaps not in the spirit of going barefoot according to the purists. But I am very concerned for his comfort levels. When his shoes are removed or cast (very rare) the heat in his hooves and soles is immediate and so is his discomfort. Perhaps boots and the use of Keratex or pine resin?

Any advice would be really appreciated :)


Hi :)

To be honest the best people to talk to would be an EP in consultation with your vet.

I can't see any reason that the HP trim couldn't work but it will take time and a lot of commitment. I'm surprised that hoof boots would be looked down upon as they're a very popular addition to barefoot transitioning/conditioning and as far as I know are recommended by the main schools of barefoot in conjunction with walking in pads etc.

Things have moved on in the past 2 years and there has been a lot more experience with LGL etc so it's probably worth having a chat with your local trimmer.

It might be worth posting this on the AEPAUK forum as there are a lot of experienced people on there who will be much more help than I can ever be :D

http://aepauk.proboards56.com/index.cgi
 
It does sound like LGL is quite likely. Feeding magnesium would be a very good idea. Salt is meant to help with LGL as well, I've just started trying it on mine.

How long was he barefoot? The pigeon toes appearing worse could have just been a temporary thing while growing in a new hoof, if the new hoof growing down is a different shape from the 'old' hoof then they can sometimes look worse for a bit while it's growing in.

HPT is a good trim trim/method IMO, but really finding a good experienced trimmer is the most important thing. There are some very good UKNCHP trimmers around as well and I'd go with a trimmer with a good reputation and experience of dealing with difficult feet over which method they use (as long as it's not strasser which I would avoid like plague).

Boots are a very good thing, and boots and pads are great for difficult feet. I wouldn't want to try to take shoes off a horse that isn't even fully sound in shoes without having some boots and pads ready.
 
Est, I should perhaps private message you about my issues. Paring off too much sole looking for abscesses can be devastating to a thin-soled horse already having issues etc. My story has nothing to do with barefoot specifically, but may be relevant about how long a sole that has been extensively pared away may take to heal itself (and no, I am not okay that this happened in my case...). And you have to be careful, as when the horse is that compromised via a very thin sole that is thinner than ever due to sole paring there are other things one has to be careful about (at this point, until sole grows in his important internal structures are vulnerable).
 
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From what you've posted I'd agree with the LGL theory too, especially with the mention of lush dairy pasture. Ours are only on close cropped meadow and one or two of the barefoot horses have shown unchararcteristic footiness in the last 6 weeks which can only have been the grass flush.

If you can tackle the diet (treat as per a critical lammi case) then it would be worth going down the barefoot route again, but I'd find a different trimmer if I were you. Boots and pads should always be used if a horse is footsore. It will help with the thin sole and weak structure long term though.
 
I'd definitely look towards LGL as the main culprit but you may also be dealing with hoof form issues in conjunction, which can make life a bit harder (been there, still doing it with my mare!).

If I was you I'd seek out the most experienced trimmer I could find, going on word of mouth and personal recommendations. To be honest I would steer clear of a newly qualified trimmer of any description and would want someone with extensive experienced with LGL cases and difficult rehabs.

My mare appears to suffer from LGL and may well have done for a very long time. It's taken a long time, mainly because it's only recently that it's been an obvious case but this year I seem to be getting a handle on it and so far she's doing really well.
 
My cob had very thin soles. He's been in plastic imprint shoes lately due to an acute lami attack and I've been feeding him Bailey's lo-cal balancer, Mg and salt (with no grass, only hay as he's on box rest) and he's got so much sole now it's great. He had his shoes off on Thursday as all the rotation has gone according to the new xrays - hooray! - and he is shuffly on concrete but he is sound in boots and pads and my trimmer has actively encouraged me to get him in boots and pads.

I echo Bebe, find an experienced trimmer, my first trimmer struggled with Bailey as he was still a student and Bailey has pathological hooves, but with our current trimmer he's coming on leaps and bounds.
 
Thank you everyone so much for your help :)

As an "emergency" measure I've put Merrick on box rest as of this morning (mucking out at 5 am is so pants!) and will speak to YO tonight about dividing his field and strip grazing. I intend to keep him in for at least 3 days and possibly up to a week with evening walks in-hand in the rubber school, in an effort to really get on top of this. I have hoof boots I can use across the concrete and gravel to make sure his hooves don't get stressed.

He already gets NAF vitamin and mineral mix, glucosamine and devil's claw. I had stopped giving him salt about a month ago when the colder weather ended, but have masses left so will introduce it again tonight.

Where can I buy CalMag or mag ox from? I've googled but had no luck finding a UK supplier, and none of the feed merchants or tack shops round here can help. Replies appreciated because I'd like to put him on this asap!

MelanieD I read your reply on another thread about soaking cracked and chipped hooves in borax, so I will do that every week for at least 2-3 months. I have some but didn't think of using it *slaps head*

How long should I wait after recovery (assuming he recovers :eek: ) to attempt barefoot? The trimmer who covers some other horses on our yard will be able to take him on (not sure of method, but very experienced apparently), but do I need to wait for Mess to be completely 100% sound? To me he has never looked that way, but now I'm thinking of all these things I wonder if that's because his hooves have never had the chance to be right?
 
Calmag can be bought from a lot of feed shop or agricultural supplies type places, its something normally used for cows. Or there's metabolic horse co. (Jackie Taylor), sells calmag and magox, don't have the email address handy but should be easy enough to find on google.

He doesn't have to be totally sound to go barefoot, some lame horses go barefoot as a last resort when nothing else works so most experienced trimmers should be fine with dealing with a lame horse. Some horses are even more comfortable after the shoes come off and they're correctly trimmed.
 
barefootbasics.co.uk sells calmag and magox and also lots of other useful things like natural soaps for scrubbing infections and so on. Jackie Taylor sells calmag and magox and other essential nutrients but in larger quantities, typically 1kg rather than 500g which work out as more cost efficient than barefoot basics, but it means you're spending more money in one go!

Jackie@naturalnetwork.co.uk

is her email address. She has a laminitic document which is really interesting and a price list which she will email out to you, and is lovely and helpful on email too.

Good luck :)
 
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