Mark Rashid clinic Romsey 22 May - final horse now up

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Sid these days!
Apr 30, 2010
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I was able to attend one day of this 2 day clinic and enjoyed it very much. There were 7 horses on this day but alas I could only stay to watch 6. I'll write up one at a time as my notes are long, and I'm glad to say that Skib was there as well so I am sure she will put an alternative viewpoint if she saw something differently from me.

There were lots of lovely horses and ponies on the day I saw and I was very taken by Mark Rashid's quietness, consistency and rigour. I felt quite guilty over my soft and inconsistent handling of my pony. Imagine my relief when my livery mate, who came with me for the first half of the day and who is a very very much more experienced and capable horsewoman than me, said at lunchtime, "Gosh he makes me feel so bad about how inconsistent and soft I am!"

So here we go, ponyhorse 1, 15 hh skewbald New Forest x warmblood cross, such a pretty little chap, a horse in height but a pony in appearance. He was going in a fairly odd rig of western saddle and 3 ring gag. The owner explained that she had bought him started as a 3 year old; he had gone beautifully when she tried him. When he came home a week later, he was nervous, nothing was ok, and within a few days she couldn't even get on him. She turned him away for 6 months and later tried seventeen different saddles (!) to find the one he was happy with, which proved to be the Western.

She said that the horse was "sour in the school", that he constantly seemed to have the brakes on and that he would run backwards for no obvious reason. She wanted him to move more freely and to improve his transitions, especially halt to walk and walk to trot.

MR spent a long time enquiring into the horse's history with her. She explained that he had been ok when he first came home, then deteriorated over 5/6 weeks until even leading to the field was dangerous because he reared - this wasn't long after she got him home. She explained that he would only move into walk if she asked with one rein and one leg only. To get stop she felt she needed to exert pressure at 5 or 6 out of 10. Backing up he would run backwards, not stopping when the pressure was released.

MR watched the horse work and asked more questions. Eventually he said that he thought the horse didn't understand at all what he was being asked to do. When going backwards he was moving his feet but not backing up properly; both forwards and backwards he was tight in his body, especially his neck and poll, pushing against the pressure and bracing against the bit. He didn't soften and appeared to think that he was in charge.

MR kept the rider in position but took over the reins from the ground - I watched with great interest at his point as I have often hoped to see this technique demonstrated and he showed it very well. He said he wanted the horse to soften, relax and obey, and used back up to try this. The horse resisted by throwing up his head and then by backing rapidy; MR ignored all evasions and incorrect tries and continued asking until he got a soft, straight back up. This took quite a long time, several minutes.

At this point MR hypothesised that when backed the horse had been rushed and hadn't had clarity about what he was being asked to do. He said, "I want him to let go the tension and get one single thing right."

He started working him forward in hand and asked for softness and engagement from the back end. He commented, "Everything he is doing is saying 'I have no idea'". His front was locked up, and the energy from the back end got stuck, with nowhere to go. The horse was resisting the bit, and MR commented, "It's easy to back off with a horse like this because he is troubled: but then he lacks leadership. I am not going to pull on the bit, but I am not going to give in to him when I feel him pushing." The goal was to get him to let go in his neck. If when he braces his neck the rider lets go, that reinforces the pattern of bracing. Before asking for any change (even from halt) the horse needed to be relaxed, soft, attentive.

At this point something seemed to shift for the horse. He relaxed, went backward better, went forward better, much more softly, and licked, chewed and yawned as he moved. The tension in his poll had gone and he continued to chew and yawn for some time.

MR demonstrated how release could come not from completely giving away rein contact or control, but just from a relaxation of the muscles (imagine pulling against a rope tied to a post. You can stop pulling without actually letting the rope go slack). He said the most essential thing to teach the horse and to praise him for doing well was how to soften to pressure, and he continued to practise halt-walk-soften-release several times with him using the reins and the rider offering the leg aids.

Then he handed back the reins to the rider and worked on her contact. He held the reins and acted the part of the horse. He could demonstrate to her that her contact was too heavy; that when the horse offered a give to the pressure, she just took the rein in rather than giving a release. He suggested that she think about moving her hands towards the horse, but not do it. He spent the last ten minutes of the session coaching the rider how to let the horse go forward, how to take up the contact and release it to give the horse the long rein, and how when asking for stop not to release until the horse softened.

At this point the horse was visibly much happier and moving forward easily and backward steadily and on light pressure. He was also very tired and it was right to end the session - of course they were going to work again together the next day.

I met the rider outside afterwards and she was thrilled with what she had learned, but a bit embarrassed to have her hands weighed in the balance and found wanting before a crowd! I thanked her very much for letting us share her learning and she said that made her feel better.

I'll write up Horse 2 next time I have the chance.
 
This is really interesting. Thanks so much Jane. I am sure I make exactly that mistake of responding to softening by taking on more rein. Similarly when @Skib said that when the hard to load horse took a step forward mark led him away whereas many myself included would tend to continue going forward until the horse resisted. Please keep the write ups coming. I know how much time it takes but I find it really fascinating x
 
I think I am deaf, for Jane heard and understood far more of the detail than I did! My follow up notes on horse 1 wont match the high quality of hers. I didnt even know the name of the bit! By the second day I had concluded only that it was a Western bit -
 
I always ask for soften before a rein back back.
My contact is probably too light and hence it's not consistent and I lose it. It's better since changing reins and I have got used to the connection. I used to just ride on the buckle all the time.

The brace part interests me though. He said if the rider let's go when the horse braces it's neck it reinenforces it. I can sort of see the quit being that's good that's what we wanted you brace we reward you.
But I can also see if you let go slightly it gives them nothing to brace with.
When my lass got spooked over poo pickers in a field she took off in a very fast cob trot. Keeping hold of that contact just means she is going to run more and likely tuck her head right in, even if you don't pull. By letting my rein out a little and half halting her she comes back to you.
 
These are my notes - Nothing to rival Janes more polished account.
Mark began Day 2 by emphasising that where horses are concerned there are no rules. Anything you learn here in the clinic is in addition to what you already know. Dont throw anything away as it may come in useful one day. Keep an open mind.

Rashid Ower Day 2 Horse 1.This horse was bracey and troubled yesterday.
"This is not about getting the horse to do things, it is about getting him relaxed. We may ask him to do things to get him relaxed. Just asking him to yield to stress, has affected everything else.
"What do we mean by a brace? When the horse leans he is braced, that means locked in position. A push is the horse moving in the opposite direction to what we want.
Yesterday we established boundaries between our hands and his face.
Halt to walk - giving a touch of the leg should get an immediate response. Use the softest pressure possible and don't escalate (don't increase the pressure on a second ask).
What he did yesterday is not there today. We will take the first five minutes to revise. Ask him to move off and if he doesn't move off, turn him. Tipping the nose of the horse to one side or another, moves the feet. Eventually he will learn the little cue and go off straight.
Do not punish the horse by using the thing which you want them to understand. i.e. don't use your leg to put on more pressure. In this case, tipping the nose is enough to produce the walk.
Mark then asks her to trot. There was no response from the horse.
Yesterday the owner had answered that she did not use a whip. Mark spent some time now explaining to the owner that carrying a whip, using it on your own boot and even brushing it against the horse to back up the leg, did not mean that you had to hit a horse with it. That when we have problems with a horse understanding, we have to try things.
Most of the time, he said, when we have a horse that is a little sticky, we keep doing the same thing over and over till we get a response. And we do it again bigger and bigger. He compared this to an English speaker talking to a German who knew no English. We may speak louder and louder but that is not going to help the basic lack of understanding. In fact if you are listening to the radio and it is too soft you can turn it up a little, but if you turn up the sound to maximum , it may become impossible to hear what is said. In this case of the horse not understanding the cue to go from walk to trot, we have to try something. A tool like a whip isn't bad in itself, it is how it is used that is important and decides whether or not it is bad. We need tools in our work with horses and rule no tool out.
The Owner agreed to use a whip and Mark fetched her a schooling whip.
As she rode on, Mark told her not to look at the horse's head - it is a joke he often makes. Don't worry about the head - The head wont fall off - He says he has been teaching for 20 years and the head has only fallen off once!
We need to say to a seven year old, How can I help you understand? Not, How can I make you do what I want?
If the front of the horse is locked, having energy at the back is no good. You will be amazed, he says, how little it takes to get a horse to do what you want it to do.
With the help of the whip just backing up the initial small cue of the leg, the horse is now trotting and Mark points out that the tail is swinging slightly from side to side as he trots a circle. Mark explains that there are muscles lying all along each side of the spine and the unlocked energy is passing through the spine. As the horse's head comes lower in trot, everything unlocks and the tail starts swinging.
Mark asks the owner to Halt first from walk and then from trot. The horse is stopping well but not very softly.
You can lift a rein to stop the horse pushing down on the bit in trot.
He walks too far before halting when he transitions down from trot. Mark wants the horse to stop within two steps. He asks the rider to circle the horse in trot on a tiny circle (give with the outside rein) till he is on the point of stopping and then give him the halt cue again, to give him the feel of the cue you are going to use for Halt.
A tight turn makes him think about his feet and not simply think of going on forward. The cue for Halt
1. Think stop, inside you.
2. Then cue with reins.
3. Then turn.
Don't ask how horses figure it out - says Mark - They just do.

Mark has shown the owner how to teach the horse the cue for walk, trot and halt. And the horse has learned the cues and is able to comply with softness. She can now go home and reinforce that foundation.
 
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That is really interesting @Skib.
Another thing I do all the time is escalate my cues. "Ask nicely, ask firmly, insist" kind of thing. But actually I can see the enhanced clarity that could come from just using the same quiet soft cue every time. And 'insisting' with a completely different cue. Something to think about with Cally for sure.
 
I love these write-ups, thanks very much.

Had to chuckle to myself though because this is so relevant to my last lesson. The allegory of the English person shouting at the German to make them understand is exactly what my RI used in my lessons when Raf was 4. Trouble is, 5 years later and I'm still pussyfooting around. Now my RI says Raf knows 'perfectly well' what I'm asking him to do and he should jump to it when I ask, not do it if and when he feels like it! And she's right of course. Just when you think you've learned the rules, everything changes.
 
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That's what I constantly struggle with? Do they actually understand or not!
 
@KP nut
Tough one. I did and still can "give mine the benefit of the doubt" however she isnt thick, in fact my instructor said she is highly intelligent. She has changed how I ride, I never used my voice previously.

I use my voice a lot, its my first aid and yes she understands well enough. I can do a trot to halt off just my voice, so she jolly well knows the voice cue to transition upwards doesnt she :D
To back up my voice its leg, so its a different cue to mean firmly.
 
That's what I constantly struggle with? Do they actually understand or not!

Well I've had Raf 5 years so yes I think he understands exactly what I mean for the stuff we do every day, as in he knows 'walk on' means start to walk. His problem is my lack of consistency - if I accept 'amble off when you're ready' on our hacks, how is he supposed to know that in our lesson he's should step smartly out without hesitation? If my RI gets on him, she gives him a tap with the schooling whip at the first hint of lacklustre performance and he sharpens up his act immediately. I think consistency is one of the things I struggle with the most.

Although - small win tonight ... one of the horses I've turned out a few times (he goes out at night) jogs and pulls and spins round in front of me. When he does that I've been halting him and stepping him back a couple of paces until he can collect himself - he's only excited not really naughty. Tonight was only about the fourth time I've taken him out and I was quite surprised when he tried to spin round in front of me, then thought better of it, returned to my side and took two paces back of his own accord. Love him, wish I could afford to buy him - I could practice my consistency skills on him!
 
Yes I guess that's what I mean by understanding: The subtle things we teach them inadvertently like 'walk' means 'amble off'. I'm working with my friends horse who I think believes 'canter' in a school means trot very fast and fall into a messy canter, even though in the great outdoors 'canter' means shift gait. A couple of years ago I saw mark rashid work with a horse who thought a rider standing on a mounting block meant move away! Rider of course assumed he was being deliberately awkward. So I always wonder what I am teaching by mistake!
 
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The next horse was a lovely little NF x Arab mare,dark bay with black points and no white, perfectly proportioned and put together with the prettiest pony head and shaggy forelock you have ever seen. She was working in a halter only. She had been a show jumper but was now afraid of everything relating to jumps: poles, wings, fillers, the works. Her owner said that once she becomes troubled about the presence of poles, you can't do anything with her. As you can imagine, giving ZIggy's history and issues, I sat up very straight at this point!

The owner reported that the mare also had had ulcers and demonstrated "boundary issues" - snapping and misbehaving. These didn't show up immediately on purchase, when she seemed quite "shut down".

MR asked the owner, "What are your boundaries with this horse?" The owner couldn't give an answer. MR took the lead rope and demonstrated his boundaries as the horse approached him by giving her a quick biff on the nose and flourishing the lead rope. The audience gasped, the mare ran back at speed to the end of the lead rope, and MR said calmly, "My boundary is an arm's length."

MR said that one of the biggest issues with all horses is a lack of clear boundaries and that he thought the problem with poles started there. He said, "I said one big thing to her because I don't want to have to say it again." That the mare took over not through a lack of respect, but because there was a vacuum of leadership.

He insisted on his space by threatening to poke the mare's nose when she turned towards him. Her reaction was very startled and she backed off immediately.

MR then led the mare here and there, talking about wild horses vs tame horses, I believe to distract the owner while he worked with the mare. He gave her quiet praise "Atta girl" when he could walk past her head without her nosing him.

He showed his leading technique. "When I go, you go with me. When I stop, I turn towards you and you stop. You don't come to me until I want." The little mare followed him and soon dropped her head, licked, chewed and visibly relaxed. At this point MR reestablished kind contact by dropping his energy, stepping up to the mare and offering a kind rub and pat. He told us that turning towards the horse made it really clear that she should stop. If she took even a step forward after he stopped, he corrected her by making her back up for a step or two.

At this point it's worth mentioning that MR's energy is remarkable and remarkably controlled. When he walked towards a horse with masterful purpose, every horse responded at once by backing away. But he could also walk towards a horse with gentle intention and it would stay still and let him approach. I could pretty well feel these energy changes for myself right at the back of the crowd.

MR talked about "inattention blindness," where people don't see what's happening before their very eyes. Horses don't suffer from this. He said you have to pay attention all the time to what the horse is doing; he was absolutely rigorous about correcting the position of her feet if she got it wrong. He also said that you can't let a horse not do something just because it is troubled, you have to work with it and through it.

He went to rub the horse's forehead again at this point and the mare turned her head away. Owner said "She doesn't like being petted," and MR's response was that she needed to allow it even if she didn't like it. He tried a little acupressure on her nose and on the 4th try the mare relaxed and enjoyed the release.

At this point a horse outside was very disturbed, galloping around and calling loudly. MR noticed how this worried the mare and the bracing through her poll that was making her stiff. He worked with her until she relaxed then handed her back to her owner. At once, when they set off to lead, the horse moved before the owner and he coached the owner on achieving leadership when leading. When he was nearby, the mare looked at him even though her owner held the lead rope.

They moved to the pole work. The owner led the mare to the pole. She approached, stopped to sniff and wouldn't move forward. Owner allowed her to turn away. MR took the mare and sent her over the pole: she jumped it, spun and tried to flee. He sent her over a second time. She pooed, quivered, and avoided the pole and tried to flee even when he upped the pressure of the lead rope with a vocal cue.

He represented the mare and let her sniff the pole and look at it, then turned her around and sent her over. This time she was slightly less aroused and trotted. He kept trying again and again, sometimes walking her past the pole, sometimes sending her over it, but she continued to rush and trot over.

"She's a nice little mare," he commented. "Troubled but pretty nice."

He said he was waiting for her to step over and sigh, or stop in a relaxed way by the pole, but although she got as far as taking herself over the pole it was still rushed and MR changed his tack slightly. He asked the mare to approach the pole, 'Thinking forward"; then he would take her away from the pole. "What we are looking for is not for her to go over it or be forced over it, but to think towards it." He explained that horses have two great motivators, fear and curiosity, and that they can't feel both at the same time. He wanted to replace her fear with curiosity.

He began to kick the pole as she sniffed at it and eventually to kick the pole right away from her, so that she could step forward and follow it. He rolled it with his feet for quite some distance and she approached more and more readily each time.

At the end of the hour he asked her to cross the pole again. She still trotted over it, but returned to it immediately afterward. MR said he was hopeful for the next day.

This link takes you to MR's FB page (thank you Skib!) and shows you where he got to with the mare by the end of day 2: walking over poles no longer presented her with a problem, although MR apparently warned the owner that this was only a led experience and might not transfer to ridden work:
https://www.facebook.com/203862299523/photos/pcb.10153335478714524/10153335346859524/?type=1&theater

I am determined to try some of this with Ziggy when I can as I loved his approach-and-retreat desensitisation. He used the same method with the next horse for loading, with incredible success - watch this space!
 
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That sounds so interesting to watch. My boundaries with Zak are not great. I have read MR on boundaries but I can't seem to get Zak to stop coming into my personal space. Perhaps I am not clear enough or consistent enough. Can't wait for the next 4 write ups. Thanks :)
 
ETA was the owner ok with this or did she find his firmness difficult? In Scotland one rider was struggling a bit when he took over and put the horse under a degree of pressure.
 
EVERYONE seemed to find his firmness difficult. The audience was visibly shocked - as was the horse! The women in front of hme were muttering to each other, "He hit the horse." MR reminded us that what he had done (a biff on the nose with his clenched fist, enough to have got a reasonable sound out of a table if he had thumped it that hard) was as nothing to the physical pressures that horses exert on each other, and that he only had to do it once. The owner was silent, I think partly because she felt ashamed (as I would) at having her absence of consistent boundaries revealed.
 
Once again I am in awe of Jane's writing - I also notice that she gives a lot of attention to how Mark Rashid teaches a horse to lead nicely whereas I have seen it so often and indeed done it myself with so many horses that it made no impression on me and I barely noted it! My attention was foccussed on the poles problem.
About the leading, I will add that it did crop up with my lovely lesson horse d today. She was nosing her owner but as I led her back to her box, I rebuked her for nosing me. One thing you learn from Mark is that each person sets their own boundaries with a horse. There isnt a right or wrong. Tho it is hard to explain to someone why you dont want their horse to come within arms' length unless invited! I used the excuse that I am elderly and not as steady on my feet. I also mentioned that (I learned from Mark) I have the same rule for all horses. Even Maisie is not allowed to nose me or come into my space.

For people like Jane, New forest and KPnut who come to Rashid with good skills already in place, it might be worth mentioning when looking for the notes I have typed up over the years, OH and I checked our records of the clinics I had attended. In 2005 I was in my third year of riding, and Rashid was over in the UK several times promoting the UK publication of his first three books. We found that I went to four Rashid clinics, January, July and December. When I say that I learned to ride from him, it is probably the literal truth for I went away and did exactly what he suggested. So when I hear that Maisie has been troublesome, I heave an inward sigh. Maisie is innocent. It is the people who dont know how to lead - dont establish the boundary.

So it wasnt the leading that made an impression on me but the poles. And I will need to start a new post with my additional notes on Day 1 as I am called away from the computer.
 
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You can see how different people will view different types of pressure as acceptable or unacceptable... Some may have left the clinic with the view that Mark gains a horses compliance by punching him in the face!! And I think that would shock me too. Having said that it appears the horse was ok with it. More than that actually, the horse seemed to look to Mark for guidance and to become LESS fearful after being given clear guidance and the message that Mark was in charge. So I guess for me the question is not 'is this ok to do' but 'what is the effect on the horse of doing this'.
 
ETA what he writes is that he doesn't hit horses but he allow horses to run into the end of his fist. Ie he puts no force behind his hand so how hard the collision is depends on the horse. Is that how it looked?
 
I dont agree that he used a lot of pressure nor that EVERYONE found it difficult. I have once seen Mark load a really difficult horse and he did indeed on that occasion use real pressure and people were distressed. I have seen Maxwell once use quite high pressure on a difficult, unrideable horse.
But there was nothing in Mark's leading of this particular pony which was remotely high pressure. In fact one of the points he made was that horses in the herd dont waste time and energy exerting high pressure on each other. I am in my 70s and there is nothing Mark did to keep the horse out of his space that I could not do if needed. If you match force with force, the horse will always win as they are stronger than human beings. He didnt hit the horse, whatever some people may have thought. If a horse puts its nose on my shoulder as my lesson horse did this morning, I am entitle to brush her away - biff her away, if you like. She is saying Is it OK for me to nuzzle you? and I am saying, No it is not!. O K she says and doesnt do it again. But dont go away and say that I had the most beautiful lesson you could imagine and immediately afterwards hit the lovely horse I had ridden.

Horses read body language and they read the speed of our movements and reactions. When I was sharing my share horse pushed across me to snatch cow parsley from the verge and she trod on my boot. So I had an NH lesson in leading. I was taught that all I needed to do was to raise my right hand and the horse knows not to come across me. Mark did ask this horse to back up, I noted, by putting pressure on the lead rope behind her jaw. That was pressure and I made a note of how he did it because it contrasted with most owners at this clinic, getting their horses to back away from them by flipping the rope end, Parelli style. But on the leading, Mark was teaching people to find a means of communication that worked for them and NOT to expend too much energy.
 
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